Windfalls... Not impressed.
By
Aura_Familia,
Posted on: 2012-02-20 15:53 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
I would never buy one and have never gotten a purple drop or Incarnate shard on my fire/fire brute (+0/x8) when one is active.
Then when not active and I was getting 2 shards per mission and at least one purple per hour.
Of course random is random but I would never buy a windfall for the 25% inf increase.
total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
Maybe try windfall a couple more times to see how effective it is. That single event you posted might have been the worst possible outcome. You posted a couple of non-windfall runs to round out your numbers but only one windfall run. It’s hard to make a conclusion off one event.
I've used Windfall but only on solo content so as to reap all the rewards. To echo DreadShinobi's comments the drop rate was so much that I filled up on one run through the map. I was able to clear the map 3.5 times within the hour. You get the idea how much I accumulated in that time.
One of the things that slowed me down was deleting all the temporary recipe drops like Raptor Pack, Power Analyzer etc…, but I was able to get a ton of rare salvage, quite a few rare recipes and tons of uncommon recipes. I didn’t get a purple drop but to be honest I was hopeful but not expecting one.
If I was to use windfall 5 times farming a mission I bet I’d have so much stuff I wouldn’t know what to do with it. Come to think of it, I am going to try that one day and tally the rewards. J
I have to say the so called Random Number generator is not random.
I have characters that I can get on and EVERY SINGLE TIME get good drops - I swear they are blessed by the Devs. I had one character that I got so used to getting good drops I started giving half away for free to keep the karma rolling.
Try this for rolling 5 rare recipe tries:
1. Celerity +stealth
2. Numina +
3. Celerity +stealth
4. Steadfast Res/Def
5. Steadfast Knockback
Yes, those were all in a row. During a Synapse TF after those rolls I gave away the Numina to one of the players and when I rolled again with my 60 merits 58 + babbage -2. I got another Numina +, LotG +7.5% and the leap +Stealth forgot what its called.
I also got 20 shards dropped in an ITF kill most. I have several characters that are similarly broken and some that don't get jack. I have one on an ITF kill all with a Windfall active that got 2 shards - that's it for the entire time. No enhancements or recipes just 2 shards.
I know for a fact on some of my characters the RNG is flatout broken. I can repeat it every time I play that character. So yes, I use that character as my bank and supply everything else my others need. Rolling 3 traps of the hunter after playing my "lucky" characters is very disheartening. So I really wish I could transfer merits lol.
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This about sums it up - I agree that these are not valuable enough to me to pay real money for (or use my stipend points which are comparable to real money anyway). However, I love using them when I have them from my rewards. But the value (such as it is) in these is not in the increased chance for high end drops. It's the increase in inf and more common drops. Pointing out that you got more additional commons than additional very rares when using one isn't really saying anything.
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Originally Posted by DreadShinobi
It does boost the good drops, you just didn't notice them because your sample size is too small. Alternatively another person could come here and get 5 purple drops while under windfall, but chances are if those purples were going to drop, they would have dropped anyways.
Windfall affects the drop rate of very rare recipies by 50%. Let's say Purples have a 0.1% chance to drop. Under windfall you would have a 0.15% chance to get a purple drop. Let's also say common recipies have a 50% chance to drop. Under windfall your chance for a common to drop would be 75%. The increase to common recipies is greater than the increase to very rare recipies, but it's still proportionally larger. This is the same thing all over again when you complained that you were getting more commons/uncommons than rares/very rares in Keyes. Keyes did get a boost to it's rare/very rare drop rate but that didn't make those rare/vr drops more common than commons, which is fine. Is the windfall boost to drops too small to be worth buying? Yeah probably. Is windfall worth using if you get it from a paragon reward? Yeah, absolutely, especially if you use it in the right environment. It's not going to make very rares drop any more than commons, uncommons, or rares, but the OVERALL amount of drops you get will increase by about 50% as it is stated subject to RNG and outliers. |
@Quasadu
"We must prepare for DOOM and hope for FREEM." - SirFrederick
ONE run with windfall running and THREE runs without do not provide nearly enough data for a worthwhile analysis. Come back when you have data on a few hundred runs of each.
That said, I wouldn't bother spending real money on them but when I do use the ones I've gotten along the way I run x8 missions and usually end up trashing stacks of common high level salvage since it's worth so little and my salvage keeps filling up.
_________
@Inquisitor
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That's . . . not a ringing endorsement for windfalls either. lol|
Originally Posted by Mr_Morbid
ONE run with windfall running and THREE runs without do not provide nearly enough data for a worthwhile analysis. Come back when you have data on a few hundred runs of each.
That said, I wouldn't bother spending real money on them but when I do use the ones I've gotten along the way I run x8 missions and usually end up trashing stacks of common high level salvage since it's worth so little and my salvage keeps filling up. |
Honestly, they really should have ASKED the players what types of consumables we would use. We probably could have come up with better ones.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
Buff's only 25%; so it looks like your numbers are approximately appropriate.
Does it work with Tickets?
Apparently, I play "City of Shakespeare"
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Alot of people wanted "Double XP weekend" temp powers. The devs probably felt (my guess, I don't pretend to know what the devs are thinking or feel on any given subject) giving the full effects of double xp on demand like that was probably too much for a single temp power. Honestly I think what they gave us: xp boosters, 5 patrol xp bars, and windfall temps was a fair enough compromise. Sure the patrol xp bars could maybe do for a reduced recharge and the windfall could potentially get away with a 75% loot bonus, and the xp booster could be 33%, but that doesn't change the fact that they're still consumables that have limited uses, and it will be impossible for them to be super amazing because of that.
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Originally Posted by Aura_Familia
That's . . . not a ringing endorsement for windfalls either. lol
Honestly, they really should have ASKED the players what types of consumables we would use. We probably could have come up with better ones. |
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Nope.|
Originally Posted by Yogi_Bare
Does it work with Tickets?
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Activating this power will increase your Influence gain by +25%. Also, this power grants the user a greater chance at earning Medium and Large Inspirations, provided the user is either a VIP or has the appropriate Reward Level for these Inspirations to drop in the first place. Additionally while this power is active, the user will have drop rates for Invention Salvage, Recipes, Very Rare Recipes, Rare Boss Recipes, Incarnate Shards (if level 50 w/ Alpha Slot unlocked) and Incarnate Threads (if level 50 and in an Incarnate Trial) increased by 50%. NOTE: Salvage and Recipe drops require the player to either be VIP, have Reward Level 7 or own an Invention License. Incarnate Shard and Incarnate Thread drops require the user to be a VIP subscriber. These effects last for 1 hour.
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So your saying if the devs asked us before making any consumables, players wouldn't ask for one that increased influence gain and drop rates?
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Originally Posted by Aura_Familia
That's . . . not a ringing endorsement for windfalls either. lol
Honestly, they really should have ASKED the players what types of consumables we would use. We probably could have come up with better ones. |
Murphys Military Law
#23. Teamwork is essential; it gives the enemy other people to shoot at.
#46. If you can't remember, the Claymore is pointed towards you.
#54. Killing for peace is like screwing for virginity.
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You know, I think there is a point you and others are missing. I'll get to it in a moment.|
Originally Posted by DreadShinobi
Your control group has 3 samples (which is better), but you still only have 1 sample size of windfall, and all tests done in a non optimal testing environment (there's alot of variables).
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Originally Posted by DreadShinobi
It does boost the good drops, you just didn't notice them because your sample size is too small.
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Originally Posted by DreadShinobi
This is the same thing all over again when you complained that you were getting more commons/uncommons than rares/very rares in Keyes. Keyes did get a boost to it's rare/very rare drop rate but that didn't make those rare/vr drops more common than commons, which is fine.
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Here's the point, and it applies equally to windfalls as it does to the Keyes "boost". If I'm being told that I'm going to see a significant increase (and if I'm paying any money at all for the boost, I'm wanting to see a noticeable increase), then I should not need to compare it with a huge sample. If, after comparing it with similar activities, I see that it is under performing then there is something wrong. This applies equally to any aspect of the game that the developers have said there should be a noticeable increase.
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Originally Posted by DreadShinobi
It's not going to make very rares drop any more than commons, uncommons, or rares, but the OVERALL amount of drops you get will increase by about 50% as it is stated subject to RNG and outliers.
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Originally Posted by DreadShinobi
Activating this power will increase your Influence gain by +25%. Also, this power grants the user a greater chance at earning Medium and Large Inspirations, provided the user is either a VIP or has the appropriate Reward Level for these Inspirations to drop in the first place. Additionally while this power is active, the user will have drop rates for Invention Salvage, Recipes, Very Rare Recipes, Rare Boss Recipes, Incarnate Shards (if level 50 w/ Alpha Slot unlocked) and Incarnate Threads (if level 50 and in an Incarnate Trial) increased by 50%. NOTE: Salvage and Recipe drops require the player to either be VIP, have Reward Level 7 or own an Invention License. Incarnate Shard and Incarnate Thread drops require the user to be a VIP subscriber. These effects last for 1 hour.
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Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
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I couldn't care less about the statistical analysis. If you want a statistical analysis, pay for it yourself. I'm not going to waste my money and time for you to get your kicks.|
Originally Posted by Mr_Morbid
ONE run with windfall running and THREE runs without do not provide nearly enough data for a worthwhile analysis.
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Originally Posted by Mr_Morbid
Come back when you have data on a few hundred runs of each.
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Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
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Originally Posted by Snow Globe
The highlighted portion seems to be in error 2/3rds of the above samples. Otherwise I'd have received 15-27 threads for the windfall run.
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Originally Posted by Snow Globe
I could care less about the statistical analysis.
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De minimis non curat Lex Luthor.
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Yes I know. Unfortunately that doesn't really help much when the MAIN object of these things is to be SOLD ON THE MARKET to get the devs extra money. |
Originally Posted by DreadShinobi
Alot of people wanted "Double XP weekend" temp powers. The devs probably felt (my guess, I don't pretend to know what the devs are thinking or feel on any given subject) giving the full effects of double xp on demand like that was probably too much for a single temp power. Honestly I think what they gave us: xp boosters, 5 patrol xp bars, and windfall temps was a fair enough compromise. Sure the patrol xp bars could maybe do for a reduced recharge and the windfall could potentially get away with a 75% loot bonus, and the xp booster could be 33%, but that doesn't change the fact that they're still consumables that have limited uses, and it will be impossible for them to be super amazing because of that.
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Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
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Yes, we would but not ones as insignifigant as the ones given by them.|
Originally Posted by William_Valence
So your saying if the devs asked us before making any consumables, players wouldn't ask for one that increased influence gain and drop rates?
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Which is precisely why we weren't asked.
AKA see AE.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
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Just because I don't care for doing the statistical analysis doesn't mean I can't look at the numbers of each run and see a discrepancy between what the power says it does and what actually happened.|
Originally Posted by Bosstone
lolwut
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Percentage difference for threads between windfall/not windfall.
Run 1 threads: 9
Windfall Threads: 12
Difference: 33.33% more with Windfall.
Run 2 threads: 14
Windfall Threads: 12
Difference: 14.29% less with Windfall.
Run 3 threads: 18
Windfall Threads: 12
Difference: 33.33% less with Windfall.
As you can see, at no point did I see +50% threads. Two runs I actually got more than the windfall run.
Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
I was under whelmed by using windfalls the few time I have. Not an obvious enough effect to get me to buy more.
Maybe code in "WINDFALL" to flash across the screen when you get a drop in the bonus % rate.
I don't suffer from altitis, I enjoy every minute of it.
Thank you Devs & Community people for a great game.
So sad to be ending ):
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The fact you made a new thread about this suggests the exact opposite.|
Originally Posted by Snow Globe
It is my opinion, and I don't care what you (or others) believe about the boosters.
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| Here's the point, and it applies equally to windfalls as it does to the Keyes "boost". If I'm being told that I'm going to see a significant increase (and if I'm paying any money at all for the boost, I'm wanting to see a noticeable increase), then I should not need to compare it with a huge sample. If, after comparing it with similar activities, I see that it is under performing then there is something wrong. This applies equally to any aspect of the game that the developers have said there should be a noticeable increase. |
The fact of the matter is, if you use the windfalls, you going to see a 50% greater drop rate on average.
Sometimes you'll see less than that, sometimes you'll see more than that.
What it comes down to are two issues.
a) Do you think 50% is worth it?
and
b) Do you dispute that the 50% extra is working properly?
Issue 'a' comes down to a matter of opinion and is something you know without need to test at all. You know what the current 100% drop rate is, and so you know what 150% is. You already know if those extra 50% is worth the cost to you or not.
Issue 'b' is not a matter of opinion, it is a matter of fact, and if you want to make a claim about it, you need to provide proof.
So, really, if you don't care about 'b' at all, and you don't care about our opinions on 'a', what the hell is the point of this thread?
Main Hero: Mazey - level 50 + 1 fire/fire/fire blaster.
Main Villain: Chained Bot - level 50 + 1 Robot/FF Mastermind.
BattleEngine - "And the prize for the most level headed response ever goes to Mazey"
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I assume you mean you couldn't care less. Yes, I know that's petty but it's a pet peeve of mine. |
Originally Posted by Snow Globe
I could care less about the statistical analysis. If you want a statistical analysis, pay for it yourself. I'm not going to waste my money and time for you to get your kicks.
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And I don't care about a statistical analysis either. I was just stating that the data you show (and made the effort to compile) is simply too small a sample to be meaningful. It doesn't prove anything and posting it was pointless.
And for the record, I agree with you on the actual worth of windfalls. I'll use the ones I got as vet rewards and super packs (and I'm not buying anymore of those) but not buy any specifically off the market.
_________
@Inquisitor
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This was intended as feedback to the developers without going to the extreme of harassing them about it. I pretty much know that my opinion and yours (as well as a few others that bother posting here) aren't the same. This thread wasn't meant for you, and if you don't like it, you are in luck as there are many other threads you can read and post to.|
Originally Posted by Mazey
The fact you made a new thread about this suggests the exact opposite.
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Originally Posted by Mazey
It's called bad luck.
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Originally Posted by Mazey
The fact of the matter is, if you use the windfalls, you going to see a 50% greater drop rate on average.
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Originally Posted by Mazey
Sometimes you'll see less than that, sometimes you'll see more than that.
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Originally Posted by Mazey
What it comes down to are two issues.
a) Do you think 50% is worth it? and b) Do you dispute that the 50% extra is working properly? |
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Originally Posted by Mazey
Issue 'a' comes down to a matter of opinion and is something you know without need to test at all. You know what the current 100% drop rate is, and so you know what 150% is. You already know if those extra 50% is worth the cost to you or not.
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Originally Posted by Mazey
Issue 'b' is not a matter of opinion, it is a matter of fact, and if you want to make a claim about it, you need to provide proof.
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Originally Posted by Mazey
So, really, if you don't care about 'b' at all, and you don't care about our opinions on 'a', what the hell is the point of this thread?
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Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
You're smarter than this, Snow Globe. Do you really not think that you would have only gotten 8 threads on that run without the Windfall? Random is random. You got a bad streak that time, most likely. Reasonable conclusions can only be drawn with a larger sample size.
T_Immortalus has a better understanding of probability than is shown in this thread.
De minimis non curat Lex Luthor.
The other 4 windfalls I've used (that was my last paragon rewards windfall), have all seen me disappointed in the results. I've used them on plow ITFs, and in other trials.
At least with the XP booster, I know I'm actually getting a boost.
Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
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Your results are self described as not actually results so no promises have been shown as false.|
Originally Posted by Snow Globe
This was intended as feedback to the developers without going to the extreme of harassing them about it. I pretty much know that my opinion and yours (as well as a few others that bother posting here) aren't the same. This thread wasn't meant for you, and if you don't like it, you are in luck as there are many other threads you can read and post to.
Actually it is called a false promise. The description of the boost claims one thing. The results show another. |
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Originally Posted by Snow Globe
Not shown in my use of the boost. In fact using the boost shows a net loss, not gain.
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Originally Posted by Snow Globe
I could accept that if two of the results did not show that having windfall resulted in less threads, rather than more.
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Originally Posted by Snow Globe
Actually a bit of both. But I'm not being paid to test, and I'm sure not going to pay to test it. That is the developers job, not mine. However, it is my responsibility to let them know that something isn't working so the next player won't feel like they've been cheated.
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Originally Posted by Snow Globe
That would be fine if I did, in fact, get the 50% increased drop rate as claimed. I did not. I got +33%, -14%, and -33% thread drops. No amount of hand-waving will get around that.
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Originally Posted by Snow Globe
I did. I had a net reduction of threads using windfall instead of a positive result. I don't care if that is good enough for you. My hope is that the developers actually check out if the windfalls are working as they claim, because from my perspective, they are not.
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Originally Posted by Snow Globe
Did you for even a moment consider that I wasn't posting for -you-? Or even for other players for that matter.
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Here is the deal Snow Globe, you are doing a disservice to the player base. Feel free to express your opinion and talk about how it seems or feels like you're not getting a fair shake on your windfalls but to present "data" as you've done here is just a farce serves only to distract and misinform.
The developers are able to data mine on a global scale and have made percentage changes globally... does that mean that you're going to get more all the time? No, you are not guaranteed anything... it's all drop rates and percentages and random rolls, which is, like it says... RANDOM. Of course, if you had a real sample size, this would all flesh out as others have suggested which you have summarily dismissed with a wave of your digital hand.
Badge-Hunter: @Dogma
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Never used one but seems to be WAI per your data. You received the extra inf which is a guarantee, and regarding drops those and you are at the mercy of the RNG.
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Originally Posted by Paladiamors
I love you, I Burnt the Toast!
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I wouldn't pay for a "windfall" that amounted to a small bonus. That is my point.
Windfall affects the drop rate of very rare recipies by 50%. Let's say Purples have a 0.1% chance to drop. Under windfall you would have a 0.15% chance to get a purple drop. Let's also say common recipies have a 50% chance to drop. Under windfall your chance for a common to drop would be 75%. The increase to common recipies is greater than the increase to very rare recipies, but it's still proportionally larger.
This is the same thing all over again when you complained that you were getting more commons/uncommons than rares/very rares in Keyes. Keyes did get a boost to it's rare/very rare drop rate but that didn't make those rare/vr drops more common than commons, which is fine.
Is the windfall boost to drops too small to be worth buying? Yeah probably. Is windfall worth using if you get it from a paragon reward? Yeah, absolutely, especially if you use it in the right environment. It's not going to make very rares drop any more than commons, uncommons, or rares, but the OVERALL amount of drops you get will increase by about 50% as it is stated subject to RNG and outliers.