Weave vs Maneuvers vs Combat Jumping...
By
Aett_Thorn,
Posted on: 2012-02-20 24:39 in Player Questions
....and I must add: all three OF COURSE have to carry a LOTG +rech.
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mostly same here, except i rarely take the fighting pool, i think ive only taken fighting pool on 1 toon, ever|
Originally Posted by kchammy
....and I must add: all three OF COURSE have to carry a LOTG +rech.
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the main reason i dont take the fighting pool is cause i hate wasting a power pick on boxing or kick
I highly recommend getting Mid's Hero Builder. You can explore questions like this in there and see which might be best.
But in terms of straight defense value, it goes Weave -> Maneuvers -> Combat Jumping.
edit -> also, hi Necro!
edit2 -> If you don't want to get Mid's you can see the actual values in-game if you click on the "detailed info" section of the power descriptions.
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Specifically, Weave has the most base defense and thus grants the most with an extra defense IO. Next is Maneuvers, and then Combat Jumping. If you're taking all three already and just shuffling slots, Weave will get you the most for a single slot.
However, Weave requires two other powers and the others are both available without prerequisites. If you're considering dropping one of those three, then you have to make some decisions: Combat Jumping is a very low cost toggle, Maneuvers helps your team since it's an AoE but has a high cost for its bonus, and Weave may free up two other power choices.
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Agreed with the above. Thing is, Combat Jumping will hold a pile of great enhancements. Kismet Accuracy, LotG +Rech (which also functions as a Def IO), Winters Gift Slow Res, Zephyr -KB, Unbounded +Stealth, Karma -KB, and because the return on slotting for defence is less than for Weave it makes an excellent place to slot this kind of stuff.
So yeah, slot Weave for defence. At base it`s about double the bonus of Combat Jumping.
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@Starflier
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/this, i also like combat jumping cause it requires only the 1 power pick, and because it has an extremely low (essentially negligible) end cost|
Originally Posted by Starflier
Agreed with the above. Thing is, Combat Jumping will hold a pile of great enhancements. Kismet Accuracy, LotG +Rech (which also functions as a Def IO), Winters Gift Slow Res, Zephyr -KB, Unbounded +Stealth, Karma -KB, and because the return on slotting for defence is less than for Weave it makes an excellent place to slot this kind of stuff.
So yeah, slot Weave for defence. At base it`s about double the bonus of Combat Jumping. |
AND aside from doing all of that you mentioned it provides immob protection too
Something else to consider is that while you do need 2 power picks to get weave, one of those two is likely Tough, which can help survivability on it's own, and can serve as a mule for something like steadfast protection. which can grant more defense than Combat Jumping slotted with just the LotG
ef/+recharge (depending on the AT, some get better numbers out of combat jumping than others)
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Since the OP didn't say what AT he's referring to, I'll just mention that Aett is correct, EXCEPT in the case of tankers. Because of the Tanker AT's higher def/res modifier (which applies to CJ and not to Maneuvers) for tanks CJ has slightly more defense than Maneuvers. And at a fraction of the endurance cost, which is why I always recommend it over Maneuvers.|
Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn
I highly recommend getting Mid's Hero Builder. You can explore questions like this in there and see which might be best.
But in terms of straight defense value, it goes Weave -> Maneuvers -> Combat Jumping. |
[/nitpick]
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It hasn't explicitly been stated here but I assume we're talking about defense as it applies to your character only, and probably for a melee toon, correct? That seems to be how everyone has answered.
Does it make any difference if the character is a defender? They get more out of Maneuvers than any other AT don't they?
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Bit of an oddity:
For Tankers, Combat Jumping, Hover and Stealth actually grant more defense than Maneuvers.
Something most people don't realize. Thought I'd mention it since you omitted what AT we're talking about.
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They do. Their Maneuvers is 3.5% base, tied with Soldiers and Widows.|
Originally Posted by Organica
It hasn't explicitly been stated here but I assume we're talking about defense as it applies to your character only, and probably for a melee toon, correct? That seems to be how everyone has answered.
Does it make any difference if the character is a defender? They get more out of Maneuvers than any other AT don't they? |
That said, their Weave is 5% base and the rest of their pool defenses are 1.75% base, so they fit the model of the majority.
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Boxing is rarely a wasted power pick. Mule that baby up with 4 Kin Combats or 5 Absolute Amazements, or heck I've even used it for Mako's 3% dmg on a pvp stalker once.
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Originally Posted by Necrotech_Master
mostly same here, except i rarely take the fighting pool, i think ive only taken fighting pool on 1 toon, ever
the main reason i dont take the fighting pool is cause i hate wasting a power pick on boxing or kick |
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on ranged toons its wasted, and on melee toons i have much better powers to pick usually|
Originally Posted by DreadShinobi
Boxing is rarely a wasted power pick. Mule that baby up with 4 Kin Combats or 5 Absolute Amazements, or heck I've even used it for Mako's 3% dmg on a pvp stalker once.
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personally ive never liked any of the pool attacks, they are just crazy weak and inefficient that i dislike them enough to avoid them greatly
if im making a build for someone though i almost always throw it in though cause i know they either like it or want to have it
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A "mule" is a power that you don't actually use, just take to slot sets for their bonuses. Kinetic Combats go great in Boxing or Kick since it's a mid-level set that gives a nice amount of defense, but doesn't have amazing enhancement values for a level 50 character. That, and both of them aren't stellar powers to begin with.
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Originally Posted by Necrotech_Master
on ranged toons its wasted, and on melee toons i have much better powers to pick usually
personally ive never liked any of the pool attacks, they are just crazy weak and inefficient that i dislike them enough to avoid them greatly if im making a build for someone though i almost always throw it in though cause i know they either like it or want to have it |
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Yeah, not to use. They're just great for holding set bonuses. Infact they're even better for ranged toons since it allows them to slot melee sets whereas they normally wouldn't be able to. Same goes for Brawl.
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Originally Posted by Necrotech_Master
on ranged toons its wasted, and on melee toons i have much better powers to pick usually
personally ive never liked any of the pool attacks, they are just crazy weak and inefficient that i dislike them enough to avoid them greatly if im making a build for someone though i almost always throw it in though cause i know they either like it or want to have it |
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Originally Posted by Android_5Point9
A "mule" is a power that you don't actually use, just take to slot sets for their bonuses. Kinetic Combats go great in Boxing or Kick since it's a mid-level set that gives a nice amount of defense, but doesn't have amazing enhancement values for a level 50 character. That, and both of them aren't stellar powers to begin with.
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Originally Posted by DreadShinobi
Yeah, not to use. They're just great for holding set bonuses. Infact they're even better for ranged toons since it allows them to slot melee sets whereas they normally wouldn't be able to. Same goes for Brawl.
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on the one toon i have fighting pool on (ss/wp brute) i actually use boxing as part of the attack chain which is why i actually got the fighting pool lol
Weave. Manuever. Combat Jumping. My favorite toon has all three. But staring at my 7th respec, I would like to know which of these powers grants the MOST def and more importantly, which one benfits the most from an extra DEF IO.
Your answer is most appreciated!