Yea, I've never posted on these forums (I just stalk them), but this comment has forced my hand, if only because Ninja/Time is my main and I am therefore incredibly biased.
Ninja/Time has great powers for keeping those insane ninjas of yours alive. The two most obvious are Farsight and Time's Juncture. With both of these active and well slotted on just SOs, you are looking at just about 20% defense buff and -15% accuracy debuff on the enemy. Combine this with the small amount of defense the ninjas get (except jounin, those guys have great defense) and they suddenly become nearly tough. Instead of wet tissue paper, they are now wet cardboard.
However, this is not the end. Temporal Mending is a nice initial heal, with an equal amount in a heal over time. It will heal up your ninjas and keep them healthy. Put enough recharge on it and you could have a constant stream of impressive green numbers going off.
Then you have Chrono Shift, which while its main function is lost on MM pets, it still serves as an emergency heal, and a buff towards yourself. As well as this, it will help with endurance problems... your ninjas won't run out of endurance. Distortion Field is great mitigation, cuts down the amount of incoming attacks by a tremendous amount. Last but not least, Slowed Response! Death is mitigation too, and using this will certainly make sure everything dies before your ninjas do.
There is the problem that you have no recharge intensive pets, so you can only slot one 5% enhancement, and the 10% ATO for AoE defense... though if you are going to use a catalyst on anything, this would be it. Increases to 15%, all my pets are soft capped to AoE.
Do apologize for the numerous spelling errors, my keyboard is wonky.
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Yea, as I mentioned before my ninja/ff is still in her 20s but so far with the bubble shields, dispersion bubble and maneuvers even those Genins seem pretty darn survivable, even on larger teams. I've taken them trough both Posi and Synapse TFs with nothing but fun and awesomeness ... and as an added bonus my team mates become pretty survivable too |
Originally Posted by Grendar
Not surprised that Ninja/FF is good though, FF is great for keeping minions alive.
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The real test is still ahead of me in the endgame of course, but I will continue the character to see how she does!
I find the ninja set at least doubles in playability if you just skip Genin altogether. (Either that, or take them and never summon them - just use them as your proc mule.) I just take snapshot and slot all the procs I can to it. (It has quick recharge and high accuracy - a good combination for proc bonuses.)
This makes you slightly less powerful, but saves you the incessant mindless tedium of having to continually resummon the gimpiest pet in the game. When people say ninjas die a lot, I'm pretty sure that's the pet they're talking about. Jounin do ok even if your secondary isn't exceptionally defense oriented, but if it is defense oriented then they do amazingly. You hardly ever even have to resummon them on /ff.
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Necro's biggest problem is 1. their survival (lack of lethal resistance which is like the most common type in the game) 2. lack of aoe damage. Majority of Necro's aoe damage comes from the 3 tier 1 zombies and that's not reliable enough. A set should never rely on tier 1 for aoe damage IMO. |
Originally Posted by Grendar
Necro mostly needs upgrades to the AI. Compared to bots, they seem to do better damage but have a suicidal tendency to run after groups of enemies unprovoked. If you keep an eye on them though, they're fairly solid: they all have self heals and tohit debuffs making them great for going after bosses, do good single target and AoE damage, and the lich is like having your own pet controller. If you balance the difficulty settings, they chew through content like it's nothing.
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Zombie also has the worst 2nd upgrade in the game. Most tier 1 pets get a 2nd upgrade with aoe attack that has 16s recharge. Zombie's Siphon Life has 30s recharge??? It's only a single target melee attack that does the same damage as their "slap". It is really pathetic if you ask me.
Both of Necro's Life Drain and Siphon Life need to be improved just like the other versions. They should either improve their damage to match the current version or decrease recharge down to 16s or less. There is no way it should be at 30s (this applies to Grave Knight too).
I can go on and on about Necro but my main complaint is their lack of lethal resistance and poor 2nd upgrade on zombies. I don't have as much with zombies chasing runners because they don't run as fast and they don't have knock back (unlike Genins!).
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
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Before they made /FF a group buff and aoe upgrades, I have tried to only summon two Jounins and Oni because I really couldn't stand casting shields 12 times and plus two upgrades on each pet. Genins' dying was really driving me nuts. |
Originally Posted by Berzerker_NA
I find the ninja set at least doubles in playability if you just skip Genin altogether. (Either that, or take them and never summon them - just use them as your proc mule.) I just take snapshot and slot all the procs I can to it. (It has quick recharge and high accuracy - a good combination for proc bonuses.)
This makes you slightly less powerful, but saves you the incessant mindless tedium of having to continually resummon the gimpiest pet in the game. When people say ninjas die a lot, I'm pretty sure that's the pet they're talking about. Jounin do ok even if your secondary isn't exceptionally defense oriented, but if it is defense oriented then they do amazingly. You hardly ever even have to resummon them on /ff. |
The performance with two Jounins and Oni was ok. I had less hassle but I could notice the drop in damage. I didn't take any arrow attacks. They have no secondary effects so they are pretty poor proc damage. I just keep throwing smoke flash.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
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Hello and welcome to the forum!|
Originally Posted by Mad Grim
Yea, I've never posted on these forums (I just stalk them), but this comment has forced my hand, if only because Ninja/Time is my main and I am therefore incredibly biased.
Ninja/Time has great powers for keeping those insane ninjas of yours alive. The two most obvious are Farsight and Time's Juncture. With both of these active and well slotted on just SOs, you are looking at just about 20% defense buff and -15% accuracy debuff on the enemy. Combine this with the small amount of defense the ninjas get (except jounin, those guys have great defense) and they suddenly become nearly tough. Instead of wet tissue paper, they are now wet cardboard. However, this is not the end. Temporal Mending is a nice initial heal, with an equal amount in a heal over time. It will heal up your ninjas and keep them healthy. Put enough recharge on it and you could have a constant stream of impressive green numbers going off. Then you have Chrono Shift, which while its main function is lost on MM pets, it still serves as an emergency heal, and a buff towards yourself. As well as this, it will help with endurance problems... your ninjas won't run out of endurance. Distortion Field is great mitigation, cuts down the amount of incoming attacks by a tremendous amount. Last but not least, Slowed Response! Death is mitigation too, and using this will certainly make sure everything dies before your ninjas do. There is the problem that you have no recharge intensive pets, so you can only slot one 5% enhancement, and the 10% ATO for AoE defense... though if you are going to use a catalyst on anything, this would be it. Increases to 15%, all my pets are soft capped to AoE. |
And I do believe Ninja/Time has good synergies. Just Farsight and Time's Juncture are good enough for me. If I remember correctly, Time's Juncture has good tohit debuff and also slow which should help the mobs run away slower which decreases extra aggro from the Ninjas chasing.
Too bad I've already devoted so much time on Ninja/FF (incarnate +3). I really don't think I want another Ninja. I still haven't tried /Time and I think I want to go with Beast/Time.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
Guys, guys!
We all know that Mercenaries are the best!
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At what ...?|
Originally Posted by Xiang Shao
Guys, guys!
We all know that Mercenaries are the best! |
/em arches eyebrow
It's the end. But the moment has been prepared for ...
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At everything!|
Originally Posted by Redlynne
At what ...?
/em arches eyebrow |
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I know PvP lol... but for the few who do .. Merc's kick even with the long recharges and damage type!! Their longer range attacks and tricks they have rock in zone!
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Originally Posted by Redlynne
At what ...?
/em arches eyebrow |
My Demon/Time is pretty awesome. I slotted a couple of HO's in Demons to help increase Heal and Resistance,while lowering end cost. I also put both +5% Defense IOs and both 10% IOs in Hellfire,along with the Attuned MM enhancement to increase AoE Defense into my 1st tier pets. All coupled together, it seems to do pretty good.
I am currently leveling a Thugs/FF and a Necro/Thermal. My thinking with the Necro/Thermal is that with the Shields and the 2 +10% Pet IOs I *should* be able to get very respectable resists on my pets. Then if I go with Barrier... =)
And of course with the Thugs/FF the idea is to cap their Defense.
I have a friend that has a Bots/FF and a Ninja/FF. When he's on his Ninja/FF and I play my Ninja/Traps, it's pretty incredible. I think I'm going to finish Incarnating my Demon/Time,then work on the Necro/Thermal. I mean,hey, what's NOT to love about FLAMING ZOMBIES!!!
A bunch of 50s and too many alts...
Neo's Guide To Thugs/Storm (need to update it)
www.facebook.com/bbirgephotos
Questions about Fire/Rad? Just ask!
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Would you mind sharing your demons/time build? I want my first MM to be demons/time and this is the first I've heard anyone say that they're awesome |
Originally Posted by Xandier
My Demon/Time is pretty awesome. I slotted a couple of HO's in Demons to help increase Heal and Resistance,while lowering end cost. I also put both +5% Defense IOs and both 10% IOs in Hellfire,along with the Attuned MM enhancement to increase AoE Defense into my 1st tier pets. All coupled together, it seems to do pretty good.
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From best to worst: Demons, Robots, Thugs, Zombies, Mercs, Beasts, Ninjas.
Demons: Ungodly damage in seldom-resisted damage types, near-capped AoE debuffs. So completely over-powered that if the pets weren't so huge and the noises so annoying, everybody and his dog would be playing them.
Robots: OK damage through level 31, insane AoE damage after that, nigh-unkillable.
Thugs: Excellent damage, okay survivability, and Gang War is fun and very useful, but the Bruiser's AI is moronic.
Zombies: Start out as total garbage, but get awesome once you get to level 32.
Mercs: OK survivability, excellent (if oft resisted) damage, really stupid AI problems. Also, Serum is the single stupidest power in the entire archetype.
Beasts: Nearly impossible to keep alive prior to level 26, damage is merely okay, would be dead last if the mastermind attacks weren't the best in the whole archetype.
Ninjas: God himself could not keep the genin alive, and getting decent damage out of Smoke Flash is chancy at best. Definitely the most difficult set to play.
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What you said about necromancy is very interesting to me, especially that you put them so much higher then the ninjas, I've always thought they were about the same.|
Originally Posted by InfamousBrad
From best to worst: Demons, Robots, Thugs, Zombies, Mercs, Beasts, Ninjas.
Demons: Ungodly damage in seldom-resisted damage types, near-capped AoE debuffs. So completely over-powered that if the pets weren't so huge and the noises so annoying, everybody and his dog would be playing them. Robots: OK damage through level 31, insane AoE damage after that, nigh-unkillable. Thugs: Excellent damage, okay survivability, and Gang War is fun and very useful, but the Bruiser's AI is moronic. Zombies: Start out as total garbage, but get awesome once you get to level 32. Mercs: OK survivability, excellent (if oft resisted) damage, really stupid AI problems. Also, Serum is the single stupidest power in the entire archetype. Beasts: Nearly impossible to keep alive prior to level 26, damage is merely okay, would be dead last if the mastermind attacks weren't the best in the whole archetype. Ninjas: God himself could not keep the genin alive, and getting decent damage out of Smoke Flash is chancy at best. Definitely the most difficult set to play. |
I'm currently playing a robotics/time character but I have to admit I'm not too fond of the concept, something magic based like necromacy/time appeals to me more. Would you say zombies past 32 work about as well as the robots?
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I have a mid 30's necro/time. Once you get the Lich, and once all 6 pets get their to-hit debuff attacks and self-heals (even if they are dumb as a post about when to use those self-heals), you end up with a lot of seldom-resisted damage (and much of it AoE toxic, which is verah nice), and a lot of debuff, and the lich is a pretty darned good controller. Stack that with the AoE HoT, the AoE to-hit and damage debuff, and your own mag 4 hold, and it's a pretty sweet combination.|
Originally Posted by Broken_Wings
What you said about necromancy is very interesting to me, especially that you put them so much higher then the ninjas, I've always thought they were about the same.
I'm currently playing a robotics/time character but I have to admit I'm not too fond of the concept, something magic based like necromacy/time appeals to me more. Would you say zombies past 32 work about as well as the robots? |
It was, however, annoying as heck up until level 26, and didn't really get good until level 32. Because, you're right, on their own the tier 1 zombies are roughly as fragile as genin.
I actually found my necro/dark to feel less effective as it leveled and everything and it's mother got an aoe. Keeping my zombies and even the grave knights alive in such a saturated environment was like herding cats, ie, it wasn't very fun. Keep in mind that I leveled in praetoria where most of the resistance have cone attacks and spent my 20's there as well where all the seers have psy shockwave.
Anyway, I was running on 0x6, end result, necro/dark was very fun and effective, especially if I was willing to corner pull. It could chew through mobs extremely well. However the things that make most mm annoyed - runners, pets splitting up, aoes, felt more annoying to me because of the melee nature of the set than they did on ranged sets. Of course it could just be that I suck at mm's and handling these types of things is easy for most mastermind masters.
Edit: I think I spent about 2 solid hours fighting and watching my pets health at 32 waiting for the big difference life drain would make in their survivability...I wasn't impressed. Problem is on my dark if my zombies die it was in a burst not to slow whittling away damage.
I have only played bots and zombies, but I can't give bots enough praise.
My first was bots/ff and I could put provoke on auto, however into the air and tank pretty much any AV thanks to the awesomeness that is the upgraded Assault Bot (I want a powerset where I can be him!).
My second was bots/traps, which is just as awesome as bots/ff - but with added debuff and extra defence for yourself (Honestly after palying /traps I can't see why a solo player would ever pick FF).
My last was zombies/dark, the zombies drove me nuts dying all the time but I stuck it out until 38 thinking all the -tohit would help, but it just didn't, so he got deleted before hitting 50 
I still think zombies/dark can be a good combo, but it just didn't work out for me, especially after seeing how bots can melt entire spawns in seconds.
I assume bots/time will be roughly the same as bots/traps, but possibly missing the debuffs for av's and the like (I don't know much about /time other than it gives nice defence and I love having them in my team).
Princess Darkstar - Proud Member of the Handprints of Union, the #1 ranked SG in Europe!
British by act of union, English by grace of God, Northern by pure good fortune!
British by act of union, English by grace of God, Northern by pure good fortune!
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Originally Posted by Aggelakis
PrincessDarkstar: "RAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRGHHHHHHHHHH SOMEONE IS *WRONG* ON THE INTERNET!"
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Well, I mostly only play Ninja and /trap doesn't work that well because Ninjas run extremely fast and with them "fear" mobs away with their Rain of Fire and Caltrops, it is such a hassle to keep the ninjas within FFG. And FFG is always behind you. The best defense for Ninja is /FF because the shields stay on them and I can follow them with Dispersion.|
Originally Posted by PrincessDarkstar
My second was bots/traps, which is just as awesome as bots/ff - but with added debuff and extra defence for yourself (Honestly after palying /traps I can't see why a solo player would ever pick FF).
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However, Robot is different. Robots themselves already have good defense and resistance and all range. You probably get a better mix of offense with /Trap than with one-dimensional set like Force Field.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
My first real character in CoV was a Mercs/Dark MM.
I'm not saying Mercs are great, because if you look at the numbers they clearly underperform compared to everything else, but they still got me through the entirety of the game with relative ease, and I've even solo'd some of the tougher AVs with the guy. Yeah that was mostly due to /Dark Miasma, but with the right procs and some incarnate goodness, my mercs were ripping through pretty much everything.
MM's are kinda like Scrappers in that some powersets are better than others but either way you're still f'n awesome.
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Sorry yeah I meant to say "a solo bots player" |
Originally Posted by Jibikao
Well, I mostly only play Ninja and /trap doesn't work that well because Ninjas run extremely fast and with them "fear" mobs away with their Rain of Fire and Caltrops, it is such a hassle to keep the ninjas within FFG. And FFG is always behind you. The best defense for Ninja is /FF because the shields stay on them and I can follow them with Dispersion.
However, Robot is different. Robots themselves already have good defense and resistance and all range. You probably get a better mix of offense with /Trap than with one-dimensional set like Force Field. |
Princess Darkstar - Proud Member of the Handprints of Union, the #1 ranked SG in Europe!
British by act of union, English by grace of God, Northern by pure good fortune!
British by act of union, English by grace of God, Northern by pure good fortune!
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Originally Posted by Aggelakis
PrincessDarkstar: "RAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRGHHHHHHHHHH SOMEONE IS *WRONG* ON THE INTERNET!"
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Do you still find this to be true, even after the AI update the Bruiser got a few issues ago? I play Thugs/Poison, so it's very important to me that the Bruiser get in and stay in melee range (for the tier 9 Poison debuff), and he seems pretty good at doing so. Yeah, he's got to throw that sidewalk first, but just once and then he closes in punching away.|
Originally Posted by InfamousBrad
(snip)... but the Bruiser's AI is moronic.
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I really like Thugs. To be honest, I'm not sure what else I could pair with /Poison and still find it playable. The Bruiser works easily for Noxious Gas. The great Maneuvers defense buff on the Enforcers along with the ability to slot all the pet-related defense and resist uniques makes the pets very sturdy (near-softcap pre-incarnate when I've got my own Maneuvers running). Adding the new MM ATO proc is just gravy for AoE defenses. The Arsonist is often a problem, but gets much better after he gets another ranged attack with the second upgrade.
Thugs is just a really well-done set, I think.
I'd place thugs at #1, robots at #2.
I never tried mercenaries & haven't played beasts/demons enough to comment. Ninja's & undead were fairly meh compared to the performance of thugs & bots.
Thugs/dark was my first villain 50 and a damned sweet ride. Dark is incredibly powerful but the synergy with thugs is gratuitous.
I found Thugs to have the best AE of the primaries & combined with dark & a bit of tactics it worked very well.
1. Use shadow fall power to move group into cone AE range
2. Drop tar patch if you want things extra dead
3. Unleash hell (6x AE's, tier 1 pets, tier 2 pets, you)
4. Repeat
You have Dark's controls plus Bruiser for anything that can survive the initial barrage.
I focused everything on that upfront damage including prioritising the MM personal attacks over other control abilities. Dead things don't need to be controlled.
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The words you scribbled on the walls
the loss of friends you didn't have
I'll call you when the time is right
Without considering secondaries (which is hard, as they can really synergize well with the right primary), here's my take:
Tied for 1st - Robots (+def for pets AND mastermind, awesome AoE, -regen, solid resists and status protection, pet heals, pets *tend* to stay at range, which is marginally helpful)
Tied for 1st - Demons (+resist for pets AND mastermind, pet heals, -resist debuffs, very robust Prince, nice mix of AoE and ST damage, work equally at well at range or melee, so pet AI compliments well, nice mix of damage types, very strong base resists, some controls as well)
2nd place - Thugs - the damage, even though mostly lethal, is excellent. Pets self buff nicely. Bruiser can be useful in melee with the right buffs.
3rd place - Necro - good ST damage, very nice controls, lots of debuffs. They melt under Longbow (lethal/fire), and they work best if they get the jump on their enemies first so they can debuff. GKnights sword attacks hit hard. Low resists and no native defense hurt them though. I do like that they are immune to slows, though.
4th place - Beasts - good mix of resists and defense, but attacks are infrequently chained, and the cone aoes are limited effectiveness at close quarters. Lethal damage hurts end-game, though some of the cold damage is welcome.
5th place - Mercs - lethal damage, narrow cones, slow recharges, a worthless buff in serum and mediocre protection puts them in the realm of mediocrity.
6th place - Ninjas. Taken on their own (without secondary), they are fodder for the grist mill. Woeful defense, broken Oni damage chain, heavy on lethal damage, useless stealth crits and a not-as-awesome-as-it-sounds Smoke Bomb. They need help.
Now, if someone cares, my best recommended Primary/Secondary combos are:
Bots/Time (if you like to stay busy and have lots of control and tools)
Bots/FF (for being able to focus on the battle and your own attacks and tough, tough pets)
Demons/FF (for again focusing on your whip attacks and toughest pets)
Ninja/Time (your high octane damage dealers can now survive, hurray!)
Necro/Dark (the stalker of MMs, you can ambush like a ****, but unplanned shenanigans can hurt).
Thugs/Pain (painbringer on Bruiser who tanks instead of you tankerminding, rest of minions can focus the damage while you keep everyone topped off)
53 Bots/FF/Mace Mastermind | 53 NRG/FF/Electricity Defender | 50 Time/Dual Pistols/Soul Defender | 50 Demons/FF/Mace Mastermind | 51 Necro/Dark/Soul Mastermind | 50 Thugs/Time/Mace Mastermind | 50 Ice/Ice/Arctic Tanker | 50 Plant/Rad/Earth Controller | 50 Illusion/Trick Arrow Controller | 50 Gravity/Force Field Controller
Yes, I like Force Fields.
I mostly share Chill's opinion, but I'd put Demons slightly over Bots. Both sets are durable and do good damage (Bots are better at AoE vs. Demons being better at ST), but the Prince's control abilities really put the set over the top. He can solo a boss without any MM support simply by virtue of being able keep it held 80% of the time (100% with an enhancement).
My preferred combination is Demons/Dark. Dark is awesome with almost any set, but I feel that it really meshes with Demons by stacking with their existing durability to make them super tough.
While it is possible to make a gimptacular Ninja/Time MM, it doesn't take a tremendous amount of effort to make Ninja/Time a powerhouse of carnage. It all depends on what powers you take, and when you slot them (and with what!).