Vehicles in City of Heroes. (is it possible?)


Blue_Centurion

 

Posted

I know players like when a new travel power becomes available, but what I'm thinking about is different. What I'm imagining is this. The vehicle would basically be a customizable player character that your character can transform into, with its own powersets unique to vehicles. Your character could have a temporary power (that would be disbled if the vehicle gets detroyed, and returns when it's repaired/rebuilt) that will summon the vehicle like a pet. So if its a car it will drive up beside you. Then you click on the vehicle to talk to it and select "enter your vehicle" from the conversation options. At that point your character transforms into the vehicle (and uses its powers instead of his/her regualar powers) and the vehicle pet becomes a tiny, completely invisible and Intangible thing that can not be tageted or interacted with, but takes damage and uses endurance in place of your character. If it gets killed you get ejected and it comes with an exit the vehicle power.

I'm not suggesting that this should be added to the game or anything. I'm just wondering if people think such a thing could work within the game.


 

Posted

Nope. Dead Horse powerset is more likely. There are many reasons for this but remember this is an old engine.


 

Posted


Soon�

 

Posted

That wasn't a vehicle.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project View Post
That wasn't a vehicle.
Shhhh!


Soon�

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by JRV View Post
I'm not suggesting that this should be added to the game or anything. I'm just wondering if people think such a thing could work within the game.
As explained by Memphis Bill

Quote:
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
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The subject at hand: Vehicles.
Vehicles as travel powers. This gets brought up a lot.

Short answer, don't expect it.

Long answer:
There are a lot of problems with the idea.

1. Movement.

Forward and back,even turning - ok. But you can do things that a vehicle can't - such as strafe (direct side to side or angular movement.) It doesn't work with a vehicle. There are also issues such as drift and "realistic" handling. We can go side to side, as mentioned, and make immediate right angle turns. Cars... not so much.

2. Movement, part 2.

Go stand in the road. No, not you personally. Take your character out and stand in the road, if you're heroside. Or even in the path of civilians. What happens? You get pushed. While not as big an issue with a motorcycle, perhaps, a car would have issues. What happens if two cars meet head on - yours and an NPC, or yours and another player's? Do you just pass through each other? Would you be satisfied with that very odd result? Or would you get stuck? How about those NPCs, can they walk and push your car, or are they walking through it? Neither answer is very satisfying, and intelligent, dynamic pathing is too computationally expensive.

3. Terrain.

Not every place has roads, or even makes sense for "off roading." Go look at Founder's Falls. Go look at Crey's Folley. Or Eden. Try to get to the north islands in Talos. What, do you have a kubelwagen? Look at the Pit in Sharkshead. Try to use your travel power (car) to get up to some of the doorways in high caves. Cars and motorcycles would be more like Superspeed - horizontal movement, period. And look - I'll be blunt - flat out *stupid* tied with, say, Combat Jumping or Superjump.

4. Combat.

You get ambushed on the way. How do you fight? Just have your powers blast out of the rolled up windows? How do you buff or debuff? EVERY power would need a new animation. EVERY. SINGLE. ONE. Then you want people with motorcycles instead of cars. Redo ALL the animations AGAIN. And they still wouldn't make sense - how do you use Footstomp in a car? Or Stalagmites?

5. Customizing.

Yeah, it would come up. Not everyone would want a sports car, or a mid-70s Buick boat, or an exotic, or a minivan, or whatever else.

6. Making "sense."

This was touched on in terrain - how do you get across water? How about the Shadow Shard? And if you want downright ridiculous looking, go do the heroside 25-34 Respec. Look at the Sky Skiffs inside of rooms or the reactor room. It makes no sense and looks *ridiculous.* Something that, yes, the devs try to avoid.

That's just a quick overview of why vehicles as generally envisioned aren't a spectacular idea for a travel power.
Further discussion

This I think merits a bit of extra commentary, honestly.

"Vehicles" covers a lot of different ground for different people. Some only consider cars/jets/motorcycles vehicles. Others add jetpacks, wings and the like. Much of the above considers cars and similar sized vehicles, with nods to motorcycle type vehicles.

Jetpacks and such, I don't see happening as travel powers. As costume options for Flight? Or as invented pieces that interact with Fly, similar to wings? Absolutely - but they don't need to be a separate travel power for that. I'm all for more jetpack and wing (or combination) designs. Besides, there are so many "temp" jetpacks, I don't see introducing yet another one as really being feasable - just my opinion.

But vehicles - cars, specifically - as a travel power, have issues.

One way to have them "somewhat" work.

For all that, I know some people *would* still like to pull up in front of a mission. So how do we do it?

A temporary power, based on the same tech from the Mac/Valkyrie pack Mission Teleporter. The temporary power would:

(a) be an invention - dropping from enemies. (A reward, because you saved... well, we'll get to that,)

(b) be a single use each time - you can only hold one at a time, not one of each, one total.

(c) use rarely used salvage, because... it's rarely used, and cheap. No Luck Charms here.

(d) come in multiple varieties.

How does this get around the various issues?


Terrain - It doesn't pass terrain. It just arrives.

It follows the same 'rules' as the mission teleporter - it's not indoors, doesn't go to contacts, etc. Just mission doors.

Customizing - It's not "your" vehicle. It's a temp power. You've called a cab, limo, or other transport.

Power animation - since you're skipping the space in between, no powers can be used 'til you arrive anyway.



The varieties?
- Limo: Stereotypical slightly stretched black limo.
- Checker cab: The classic yellow cab.
Even with the addition of the new non combat travel powers the devs haven't ignored the issues with terrain and movement.


 

Posted

All I want is a Jetson's type flying car. Or a Star Trek flying motorcycle that chased young Jimmy Kirk in his step dad's Corvette. Or that rocket horse. Definitely want.

That would solve just about any issue, yeah? If we can have mobs of thugs showing up out of *thin freaking air* for masterminds, this is possible.

Otherwise, M. Bill has it down, and it's good, and bankable. Not happening. I'm ok with this.


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Posted

The answer is, without a doubt, "yes, it is possible."

What matters, though, is that it is highly unlikely.


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Posted

I'd like to believe that the devs have attempted to appease such requests by offering things like the new flying carpet and the semi-recently released rocketboard. There are way more variables than one may think that would need to be accounted for most of which would be animations. I'm not an animator, but just thinking about the various things that would have to be addressed (variations in character height, shape; how to control the vehicle as a separate entity; how to make it targetable by just that character and not the NPCs; etc) gives me a headache. Ignoring the age of the engine, they'd likely have to completely build a secondary physics layer just for the whole thing.

While it'd be cool to have a baby-blue 57 chevy, it's kinda weird when I think about things like "where would it be when I'm not using it?" or "how long would this really last in places like RWZ, etc". I also think that it would kinda mess with the sense of emersion ingame as well. Overall I'd rather they work on the existing QoL issues first.

P.S: Just like at the dealership I'd also HATE to see the sticker price of my ride should it be introduced into the market!


 

Posted

Only if it's a shape shifting travel power like the Coyote, and then only if the associated sound effect while traveling sounds like Speed Buggy.


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Posted

Regarding immersion I would have to disagree. See I was thinking of superhero vehicles. For example we all know of a certain superhero that has a very distinctive car pacted full of various gadgets. As for powers, think along the lines of the dark nova form of warshades. Your regular powers will be disabled and you gain access to the vehicles powers. Say built in machine guns and rocket lauchers that only shoot forward. All windows blacked out so you cant see your character (because they transformed into the vehicle). Animation should be fairly basic as there are actually very few moving parts. Movement would likely be the tricky part. Thinking about it, a wheeled car might be out of the question without a lot of work. But a kinda futuristic anti-gravity car might work, since it would float above the ground it would be justifiable that it could turn and maneuver more like a character. There would need to be a way to prevent such vehicles being used indoors however.

In a sense the bright nova and dark nova forms are a lot like what i'm talking about. Just instead of changing into a nova you change into a high tech hovering vehicle with built in weapon systems.


 

Posted

So... rather than a vehicle travel power, A Kheldian-like powerset that turns you into something like a Sky Raiders Sky Skiff, or Longbow Chaser?

Then I doubt you're going to get that customization you wanted in your opening post. See Granite Armor; the tech is just not in the game's engine to allow customizing anything but your base model + weapon. ... yet.

And at best, it would probably only be changeable under the Power Customization menu, giving you the choice of a few base models, and able to change 2 colours.


"My inner mind has become a reality-cracking overgod. He torments me! Help!"

 

Posted

Actually I was thinking a smaller 1 person vehicle. Sorta like in batman beyond. And customization could be like a costume on a ridgid (standing to attention with no animation) extra large huge body type. Say 12-15 feet tall maximum physique with other scaling adjustale. They way it could move would be lying on its back hovering feet first towards things. Because the bodyparts wouldn't move around the body could have a vehicle parts only costume set. Like how arachnos soldiers start with specific costume parts just for them. So for example instead of this vehicle costume having shoulder pads and gloves (in the parts of the 3d model those body parts would be assigned to) it would have parts of a door or side of a vehicle. The head could make parts of a jet engine or exauhst and so on.


 

Posted

I like the just shows up idea. We could make it somewhat innocous looking too. Something that would fit in almost anywhere, like a police call box perhaps?


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by JRV View Post
Regarding immersion I would have to disagree. See I was thinking of superhero vehicles. For example we all know of a certain superhero that has a very distinctive car pacted full of various gadgets.
So...what if they made a spinoff game called GTA: Paragon?


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by JRV View Post
For example we all know of a certain superhero that has a very distinctive car pacted full of various gadgets.
Inspector Gadget?


Culex's resistance guide

 

Posted

Another issue is why fight in a vehicle? Especially indoors where the majority of missions are. Why ride a motorcycle in a cave? Or a jewlry store? Or warehouse. You can walk. Plus fighting with a vehicle seems like something you would use to rush by every enemy, shooting as you drove on by. We can't fight and move at the same time and will not. Looks too stupid. Other issue is if you do fight while staying still, it makes you wonder, "Why am I shooting guns on this Motorcycle and just sitting here? I can use fireballs/Super strength/ Assault Rifle/ Mental powers!/Etc. Not many supers use their powers and skill from the seat of their vehicle all the time. And I'm talking about cars and motorcycles...not giant robots.

And if you say to keep it outdoors only, the problem still exists. Fighting from vehicles looks pretty bad. Hence why the Devs were smart enough to turn off all powers on the Rocket Board and Magic Carpet.

Dang I can rant.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexen777 View Post
Fighting from vehicles looks pretty bad. Hence why the Devs were smart enough to turn off all powers on the Rocket Board and Magic Carpet.
With all due respect, Clockwork O1 has already explained why the devs turned off all powers on the non combat travel powers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clockwork O1 View Post
It requires the modification of every animation currently existing in the game to work with these movement modes.

Furthermore, it requires every new animation created in the game going forward to be created with these additional movement modes in mind, increasing the number of animations needed for every new power set, emote, etc.

This is not a simple request, it is an exponential increase in time and work for every new animation that is put into the game.
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showp...3&postcount=63

And in that response he's only addressing the animations it would take for each existing power and each power that will be added as the devs keep developing new power sets.

He doesn't even broach the multitude of other things that would need to be modified on to get things to work right.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project View Post
With all due respect, Clockwork O1 has already explained why the devs turned off all powers on the non combat travel powers.



http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showp...3&postcount=63

And in that response he's only addressing the animations it would take for each existing power and each power that will be added as the devs keep developing new power sets.

He doesn't even broach the multitude of other things that would need to be modified on to get things to work right.
Yes, this is what I was getting at. The work required wouldn't just be a multiple per character, but per every ounce of costume pieces and their combinations. They'd have better luck at decyphering a 1Tb encryption code than pulling that off within a reasonable amount of time and resources.