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Well as far as I know a duo corruptors manage to finish Mo LGTF under 2 hours and as far as I know there is no way two scrapper can do it because of hami part of TF which requires both holds and ranged attacks on mitos.
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Originally Posted by Hopeling
Can you name an example of this content? Because I'm drawing a blank.
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Well, my Claws/SR can do the yellows and blues solo on a good day. I strongly suspect a pair of StJ/(probably WP)/(Blaze or Darkness) scrappers can get the job done. Maybe even one, with 4*Basilisk+2*Dmg in Crushing Uppercut and well slotted Char/Petrifying Gaze.
Not 100% sure of course.
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Which claims?
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Originally Posted by Darth_Khasei
WOW, people are just pulling bogus claims from their bums left and right.
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Darn it sorry, I need to stay out of this one. Suffice to say, I think you have made good posts.
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Originally Posted by BellaStrega
Which claims?
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The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
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Heh, I didn't think you were calling me out. I was just curious. |
Originally Posted by Darth_Khasei
Darn it sorry, I need to stay out of this one. Suffice to say, I think you have made good posts.
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Elsegame: Champions Online: @BellaStrega ||| Battle.net: Ashleigh#1834 ||| Bioware Social Network: BellaStrega ||| EA Origin: Bella_Strega ||| Steam: BellaStrega ||| The first Guild Wars: Kali Magdalene ||| The Secret World: BelleStarr (Arcadia)
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Can you name this content? Because I have never seen it. I have never struggled to get through anything in this game on a Scrapper or Brute. I can think of something I once struggled to get through on a Stalker, but Stalkers have been much improved since then. (It was soloing a Longbow EB who had 50% resists to my attacks, it was back before IOs, and it was on Relentless, and I refused to lower my difficulty settings.)|
Originally Posted by Cyber_naut
It's the right question if you want to see why I'm saying stacking buffs and debuffs are more powerful than any other factor in this game. That's why two or three top end buff/debuffers will blow through content that two or three scrappers will struggle with or even be unable to eveb get through.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Kangstor
Well as far as I know a duo corruptors manage to finish Mo LGTF under 2 hours and as far as I know there is no way two scrapper can do it because of hami part of TF which requires both holds and ranged attacks on mitos.
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Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
Quote:
A friend and I duoed what was damn nearly a MoLGTF, in that neither of us died and we used no temporary powers except raptor packs, in 32:something. He was playing a corruptor, I was playing a scrapper.
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Originally Posted by Kangstor
Well as far as I know a duo corruptors manage to finish Mo LGTF under 2 hours and as far as I know there is no way two scrapper can do it because of hami part of TF which requires both holds and ranged attacks on mitos.
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They made stalkers to have masive crit rate maybe buff scrappers crit damage say 150% of the damage for exsample you hit with headsplitter for 500 damage and make a crit you see 500/750 as damage maybe scrappers have low crit chance but when it happens its masive damage. Just a thought.
Dizzy
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How about no, since even after the I22 changes, its still debatable whether stalkers outdamage scrappers single target, and its undebatable that scrappers still do AOE better.
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Originally Posted by Dizzy_Dazzler
They made stalkers to have masive crit rate maybe buff scrappers crit damage say 150% of the damage for exsample you hit with headsplitter for 500 damage and make a crit you see 500/750 as damage maybe scrappers have low crit chance but when it happens its masive damage. Just a thought.
Dizzy |
When something good happens to me, I can never enjoy it....
I am always too busy looking for the inevitable punchline...
BEHOLD THE POWER OF CHEESE!
Dude take your stalker nutswinging to the stalker forums. I seriously need to put you on ignore. The only reason why the developers should not buff crits on scrappers is because of PvP but PvP is dead and the developers will never fix pvp.
Virtue: @Santorican
Dark/Shield Build Thread
Sorry didn't know the word "Stalker" was hated so much but you are right PvP sucks....
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Actually, there's a better reason not to: lack of a compelling reason it needs to be done.|
Originally Posted by Santorican
Dude take your stalker nutswinging to the stalker forums. I seriously need to put you on ignore. The only reason why the developers should not buff crits on scrappers is because of PvP but PvP is dead and the developers will never fix pvp.
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Scrappers, not Stalkers, are my favorite AT. But I am glad for the changes that Stalkers are getting with I22, and have zero concerns that Scrappers need any change to account for them.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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To be more precise, a change needs a compelling reason in favor of it, and no compelling reasons against it, for it to happen. The combination of the two is necessary and sufficient for a change to make.
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Originally Posted by UberGuy
Actually, there's a better reason not to: lack of a compelling reason it needs to be done.
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[Guide to Defense] [Scrapper Secondaries Comparison] [Archetype Popularity Analysis]
In one little corner of the universe, there's nothing more irritating than a misfile...
(Please support the best webcomic about a cosmic universal realignment by impaired angelic interference resulting in identity crisis angst. Or I release the pigmy water thieves.)
Indeed. I was just using short-circuit logic there. We have BUFF_OK = (A && B), and I feel A is basically false, so B really didn't matter. 
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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Quite possibly you might be referring to a duo MoLG of approx 1:35 I did quite some time ago which is a record I've broken several times since.|
Originally Posted by Kangstor
Well as far as I know a duo corruptors manage to finish Mo LGTF under 2 hours and as far as I know there is no way two scrapper can do it because of hami part of TF which requires both holds and ranged attacks on mitos.
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In light of the discussion though I should add that once we aimed to get under half an hour for the first time 2 corrs no longer seemed to work.
Contrarily to other TFs where me and my duo partner always found we got the best results by staying on corrs the LGTF's specific set of requirements caused me to swap mine out for a Fort to set the currently standing record.
Enlarge
Using a scrapper on this, however, would definitely make things needlessly headache-inducing if not near impossible.
Duo MoITF - 26:06 | Duo MoKahn - 25:50 | Duo MoLGTF - 29:34 |
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Duoed it with a DB/WP Scrapper and a Dark/Dark Corr.|
Originally Posted by Wintry
Quite possibly you might be referring to a duo MoLG of approx 1:35 I did quite some time ago which is a record I've broken several times since.
In light of the discussion though I should add that once we aimed to get under half an hour for the first time 2 corrs no longer seemed to work. Contrarily to other TFs where me and my duo partner always found we got the best results by staying on corrs the LGTF's specific set of requirements caused me to swap mine out for a Fort to set the currently standing record. Enlarge Using a scrapper on this, however, would definitely make things needlessly headache-inducing if not near impossible. |
May not have been a speed record (we werent trying to make one anyways), but we did it.
Scrappers built for it can do it. I think there are some sets will have a better time of it than others however.
StJ Scrapper for instance can have two holds with the epic hold and the tier 3 Crushing Uppercut.
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
I used my MA/DA for it and while I had char, I pretty much left my partner hanging as far as stacking hold mag. Could easily have shaved a few minutes off mission 4 with builds specialized for the TF. That was an odd example on Kangstor's part since the LGTF is a superb example of an eminently speedable TF for a variety of combinations.
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Let me clarify:|
Originally Posted by BrandX
Duoed it with a DB/WP Scrapper and a Dark/Dark Corr.
May not have been a speed record (we werent trying to make one anyways), but we did it. Scrappers built for it can do it. I think there are some sets will have a better time of it than others however. |
I belief you can do almost anything with almost any combination of toons.
Depending on the challenges and what you lack or don't lack to deal with them however everything ranges from a smooth ride to a good afternoon of plowing (which can be fun too, as I've experienced doing a duo ITF with 2 lvl 41s on SOs only at +1x4).
When I say headache-inducing or near impossible in this case I'm referring to attempting to do precisely that which the screenshot shows with a scrapper involved.
And in all fairness I should also mention the toons we use for our duo MO runs are mostly severely pimped, something to consider when debating if it's generally doable using other combinations.
All in all, I agree that to a very large extent ATs don't matter and you can get anything done using anything you like as long as you try hard enough and you don't set too ambitious goals.
When it comes to pushing limits however I'd say it's just naïve to think you can always bring your allround scrapper thingy and just 'go show how it's done'.
It appears to me many scrappers spend a lot of their time trying to convince people all other ATs are basically bonus, but not really needed to achieve anything.
That is where I beg to differ; even in today's CoH where fenders tank and tankers AoE the crap out of stuff in a blink you can still limit your options as to which types of toons you can use to do something, as long as you challenge yourself enough.
Duo MoITF - 26:06 | Duo MoKahn - 25:50 | Duo MoLGTF - 29:34 |
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Is anyone really doing that in this thread? The discussion you jumped into had to do with whether team buffs and debuffs were overpowered or not, and how this supposedly makes scrappers irrelevant, not whether other ATs are irrelevant because of scrappers.|
Originally Posted by Wintry
It appears to me many scrappers spend a lot of their time trying to convince people all other ATs are basically bonus, but not really needed to achieve anything.
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Also, what on Earth does the "Mo" in "Mo*TF" mean?
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"Master of". You probably know what that means, but just in case, it means completing it with temp powers disabled and no deaths.
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Originally Posted by BellaStrega
Also, what on Earth does the "Mo" in "Mo*TF" mean?
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Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
I think it's useful to consider not just this thread but parallel discussions of blasters and such. There, people really are saying "Well, brutes are great so what's the point of anything else?" Yes, scrappers have been somewhat encroached-upon as the go-to scapegoat of power. Note to self, check if "Scapegoat of Power" is taken on Virtue. Anyway, yes, some people really do argue that the only good ATs are corruptors and brutes and everything else is a total waste. That is demonstrated to be false every time a defender/mastermind combo does something cool against, apparently, all odds.
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Thanks much.
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Originally Posted by UberGuy
"Master of". You probably know what that means, but just in case, it means completing it with temp powers disabled and no deaths.
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Yes, people do that in general. Like the guy arguing that stalker buffs will be detrimental to scrappers.|
Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
I think it's useful to consider not just this thread but parallel discussions of blasters and such. There, people really are saying "Well, brutes are great so what's the point of anything else?" Yes, scrappers have been somewhat encroached-upon as the go-to scapegoat of power. Note to self, check if "Scapegoat of Power" is taken on Virtue. Anyway, yes, some people really do argue that the only good ATs are corruptors and brutes and everything else is a total waste. That is demonstrated to be false every time a defender/mastermind combo does something cool against, apparently, all odds.
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I mean, are people saying this in this thread? In that particular debate?
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Yeah, sorry but for some reason(I suspect a link to 4tran) people have been making wild untrue statements right and left here. The intellectual dishonesty being employed is staggering.
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Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
Anyway, yes, some people really do argue that the only good ATs are corruptors and brutes and everything else is a total waste. That is demonstrated to be false every time a defender/mastermind combo does something cool against, apparently, all odds.
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The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
WOW, people are just pulling bogus claims from their bums left and right.
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.