Help me choose a kinetics character.
By
Beauregard,
Posted on: 2012-01-27 05:54 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
I always prefer Kinetics on controllers, since it doesn't have the mitigation of other buff/debuff sets (I do have a lowish kin/dark defender, too). And Plant is just great. So my vote goes to the Plant/Kin, particularly for your goal of taking teams of random people and standing up to whatever comes.
Kin will add damage to everybody, Plant will also add some damage for yourself but, maybe more importantly for your goal, will make being defeated in your team hard (people can always rush away and poke uncontrolled mobs if they are trying to die, but it's tough to counter that).
As for the Kin/Sonic defender... Sonic Blast's biggest mitigation tool is the AoE sleep, which goes well with Kin since that doesn't wake the baddies up, but sleeps in random teams don't work so well, usually. My Kin/Dark defender adds some mitigation with the AoE -to-hit from his blasts, but it's still not even close to "Oh my god nothing can kill us now" (which is sort of the feeling Seeds of Confusion plus the rest of Plant often brings me).
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Thanks for your comments |
Originally Posted by DrGamma
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yea, the more I think about it Plant/Kin might be a pretty awesome character to play as.Might be fun to be able to buff up that neat pet they get too.
I like Earth/Kin controllers.
However, if you can wait until the next issue, I would recommend the new Dark Control with kin. A dark/kin controller should be a fantastic mix. Fearsome stare will let you use your kin powers in safety, and the immobilize is of the higher damage variety, meaning that AoE immob + siphon power + repeat ad nauseum + single immob and hold slotted for damage ... will make levelling up nice.
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I'll second waiting for a dark/kin.
You might also consider a grav/kin with the new changes coming to grav. One of my first toons way back in the day was a grav/kin.
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Just to represent kin/sonic defenders - this is not a care bear set, it's teammate enabler combination that will have teammates saying "whoa, I just did X damage!" (where X is a number greater than they've probably seen before). Damage buffs from FS * resistance debuffs from Sonic creates insane damage, like nothing else in the game.
So if your goal is to provide team safety, at least to mobs that aren't resistant to confuse, then go plant, if you want your team to melt face, then go kin/sonic.
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Another vote for the defender. I have a kin/rad, /dark, elec, and /ice. Amazing how different each plays. The /ice and /elec like to be in melee for the FS, gotta like ice storm, the /elec just needs the damage boost. The /dark does well at range with tentacles and nightfall, with a nice heal now. The /rad with 2 fast attacks, neutrino bolt as a buzzsaw and laser beam eyes with an Achilles Heal. One thing to remember if you want to be a support character, a kinetic defender is a busy character, always something to do.
im gonna be making a stone/psi dominator. they look like their a boat load of fun with -def and -rech >.> another build that i hear several....several good things about is a rad/kin. another build that looks interesting is an ele/ice troller. but idk much about their play styles
Thanks for even more replies!
I ended up making a kinetics/sonic defender and while it's still of course very low level, I am very pleased. Just lead a Positron 1 with it at level 13 and it went super fast and smooth, even at that level I had speed boost, power siphon and the heal as well as two single target and an AoE cone sonic attack with -20 res.
It will be very interesting to see how this character develops! Thanks for your help all
While you've made your choice, I thought I might clarify some problems you might run into.
Kinetics is a very 'active' set. That means you're ultimately going to spend an enormous amount of time doing Kinetics powers... and have very little time for any other powers.
What that means is that as you level, you'll be laying in those -resistance debuffs for Sonic less and less. Moreover, the generally poor damage/animation of the set will become more and more of a problem because you have so little animation time to use in the first place.
Then you'll run across a Kinetics/Radiation and he'll explain about Achilles' Heel. Finally, you'll run across a Kinetics/Electric, Kinetics/Fire or Kinetics/Ice and you'll just feel sad at how they're converting the very limited nuking time available into useful damage - while being significantly better solo and in the run-up to an AV.
Ultimately, you'll probably do what most of the folks I've seen who've tried Kinetics/Sonic do once they realize just how little time they have to nuke in a serious do: hang up the character and try again.
In terms of Controller options, you have slightly different issues. First of all, Confuse is actually a pretty good damage ability... that isn't buffed by Kinetics. That's why you're far more likely to see Illusion/Radiation or Plant/Storm than you are to see them paired with Kinetics. Second of all, when you first engage a spawn you'll be torn whether to be a Controller (and control the spawn) or a Kinetics (and Fulcrum Shift it).
These issues tend to affect Controllers in various degrees, but probably Fire the least. It doesn't have a Confuse and it does have Smoke (which provides something of an answer to the "how do I start the fight with the spawn?" answer).
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Thanks for the information! What do you think about Kinetics/ice instead?|
Originally Posted by Beauregard
While you've made your choice, I thought I might clarify some problems you might run into.
Kinetics is a very 'active' set. That means you're ultimately going to spend an enormous amount of time doing Kinetics powers... and have very little time for any other powers. What that means is that as you level, you'll be laying in those -resistance debuffs for Sonic less and less. Moreover, the generally poor damage/animation of the set will become more and more of a problem because you have so little animation time to use in the first place. Then you'll run across a Kinetics/Radiation and he'll explain about Achilles' Heel. Finally, you'll run across a Kinetics/Electric, Kinetics/Fire or Kinetics/Ice and you'll just feel sad at how they're converting the very limited nuking time available into useful damage - while being significantly better solo and in the run-up to an AV. Ultimately, you'll probably do what most of the folks I've seen who've tried Kinetics/Sonic do once they realize just how little time they have to nuke in a serious do: hang up the character and try again. In terms of Controller options, you have slightly different issues. First of all, Confuse is actually a pretty good damage ability... that isn't buffed by Kinetics. That's why you're far more likely to see Illusion/Radiation or Plant/Storm than you are to see them paired with Kinetics. Second of all, when you first engage a spawn you'll be torn whether to be a Controller (and control the spawn) or a Kinetics (and Fulcrum Shift it). These issues tend to affect Controllers in various degrees, but probably Fire the least. It doesn't have a Confuse and it does have Smoke (which provides something of an answer to the "how do I start the fight with the spawn?" answer). |
The character is level 26 now so I'm not sure I'll be rerolling, but I will give it some thought.
I'll second the notion that Kin Defenders get really busy in the later levels, leaving the secondary seldom used.
I burned out on my Kin/Electric shortly after getting Fulcrum, just ended up feeling like a buff-bot, with the constant recasting.
I've sinced rolled an Elec/Kin Controller and love it!! Then again, with the controls being as they are, it's easier to fire them off and then start focusing on buffs.
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Well, at this point I have a Plant/Kin, Kin/Elec and a Fire/Kin all at 50. I have to say the Plant/Kin is my favorite. (Part of it may be that I like the character name/concept--her name is "Flora the Explorer") The AoE control/damage of Seed+Roots+Creepers+Fulcrum Shift+Roots+Siphon Speed+Roots is pretty impressive. Then add in some Fissure. Seismic Smash helped to take care of the main weakness -- single target damage and controlling Bosses.
I made this character as an intended duo with an Elec/Shield scrapper. He would run in to gather the group before I would hit them with Seeds+Roots+Fulcrum, and then he would Lightning Rod or Shield Charge them all dead. My speed boost kept at least one of his two AoEs up for every group.
I originally made the Kin/Elec to be a sapper . . . and found out that he's not that great as an AoE sapper unless he can use Power Boost. He also has a good name/concept -- he wears Egyptian garb, and is named "Sultan Battery." (say it out loud.)
I made the Fire/Kin just to see why they are popular ... it's OK, but she actually dies a lot more than my Plant/Kin.
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Meh, maybe I'm a bad group player, but I tend to act less busy with my Illusion/Kin than these posts indicate.
I think if you try to apply Speed Boost and Increase Density to every team member all the time, it gets super busy, but SB got the AoE buff treatment now, didn't it? So it's just one click (maybe a few if people are spread out) periodically, instead of 7. Even before it turned AoE I tended to use it more reactively - if people asked for it or if I noticed blue bars going down too quick. Stone Armor characters were the only ones I tried to always keep it on.
With ID I act reactively, too, basicly applying it to mezzed people when it happens instead of keeping it on everybody all the time (which is still so annoying it's close to impossible for me).
Other than that all I did was FS and Siphon Speed whenever they were up (no need to siphon power after fulcrum, usually, except for long AV/EB fights maybe), heal when necessary and Transference if I saw some blue bar (usually mine) getting dangerously low. Doing all that still left me plenty of time to attack with Blind/SW/Fissure/S.Smash, including time to run in and out of melee. Sure, Kin was busy, but not busy enough to stop me from attacking. I don't see why it would be busier to a Kin/Sonic defender.
I think the only time all I did was KINning and little else was in a BAF when there was no one else with a heal and too many 9CUs had accumulated by the end of the Siege fight... Things were starting to slide into a wipe when I started just spamming Transfusion/Fulcrum/both Siphons non-stop and it was enough to keep us all safely in there for the rest of the time we needed to bring the big guy down... I think even then I still had time to throw out some attacks...
As for FS not boosting the damage from the confused mobs for a Plant/Kin (as a res debuff like those from rad or dark for instance would), there should be so much FS-boosted AoE flying around, including from your Creepers, that I doubt the smaller damage from the confused mobs would be even noticeable. On my Dom, at least, I always thought of the AoE confuse more as a tool to keep me alive than as a tool to increase my kill speed...
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With respect to Sonic paired with Kinetics, the information above gets 10/10 wrong points. Implying that Rad Blasts use of Achilles Heel is comparable gives you enough reason to disregard that "advice". |
Originally Posted by Beauregard
While you've made your choice, I thought I might clarify some problems you might run into.
Kinetics is a very 'active' set. That means you're ultimately going to spend an enormous amount of time doing Kinetics powers... and have very little time for any other powers. What that means is that as you level, you'll be laying in those -resistance debuffs for Sonic less and less. Moreover, the generally poor damage/animation of the set will become more and more of a problem because you have so little animation time to use in the first place. Then you'll run across a Kinetics/Radiation and he'll explain about Achilles' Heel. Finally, you'll run across a Kinetics/Electric, Kinetics/Fire or Kinetics/Ice and you'll just feel sad at how they're converting the very limited nuking time available into useful damage - while being significantly better solo and in the run-up to an AV. Ultimately, you'll probably do what most of the folks I've seen who've tried Kinetics/Sonic do once they realize just how little time they have to nuke in a serious do: hang up the character and try again. In terms of Controller options, you have slightly different issues. First of all, Confuse is actually a pretty good damage ability... that isn't buffed by Kinetics. That's why you're far more likely to see Illusion/Radiation or Plant/Storm than you are to see them paired with Kinetics. Second of all, when you first engage a spawn you'll be torn whether to be a Controller (and control the spawn) or a Kinetics (and Fulcrum Shift it). These issues tend to affect Controllers in various degrees, but probably Fire the least. It doesn't have a Confuse and it does have Smoke (which provides something of an answer to the "how do I start the fight with the spawn?" answer). |
If you put an Achilles Heel in every Rad Blast attack, you know what the MAX -resist you'd achieve? 20%, period, it doesn't stack. Sonic stacks amazingly, getting a 100% debuff on a single target is easy enough. That means, when you fulcrum shift and get your team to the damage cap, sonic lets you double it (does not account for purple patch or resists). AOE resists from Howl can stack, oh, twice for -40% for the crowd.
Personally, in my inventory I have a Kin/Rad and a Kin/Sonic and they're simply not comparable (with the Sonic winning, in case it's not clear), sorry. That Sonic has "poor animation" is such nonsense it's not worth addressing other than to say "hogwash". The t1 and t2 blasts take the same amount of time to animate as... Rad (and many more). Sonic's cone, Howl, takes less time than Rad's cone! How about that?
Anyway, I hated to see the OP getting persuaded by bad advice and thought I'd offer some assurance that, if you're enjoying playing it (which it seems you are) then keep on. If there comes a time you don't, sure, move on.
Global = Hedgefund (or some derivation thereof)
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Pffft. I have a Kin/Sonic and it works perfectly fine. The sonic blasts are great for helping out against hard targets, like AVs and monsters, and are also good for taking out bosses in normal spawns.
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Originally Posted by Beauregard
Ultimately, you'll probably do what most of the folks I've seen who've tried Kinetics/Sonic do once they realize just how little time they have to nuke in a serious do: hang up the character and try again.
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Culex's resistance guide
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Kinetics is far less active than it used to be, since Speed Boost and Increase Density were turned into AoEs. Prior to the change, I'd estimate that I spent half my time using Kinetics powers; now, with the exception of AV fights, I think it's closer to 20%. Against AVs, the massive amount of single-target debuffage you can put out with Siphon Speed and Siphon Power makes focusing on the Kinetics side of things worthwhile.
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Originally Posted by Beauregard
While you've made your choice, I thought I might clarify some problems you might run into.
Kinetics is a very 'active' set. That means you're ultimately going to spend an enormous amount of time doing Kinetics powers... and have very little time for any other powers. What that means is that as you level, you'll be laying in those -resistance debuffs for Sonic less and less. Moreover, the generally poor damage/animation of the set will become more and more of a problem because you have so little animation time to use in the first place. |
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Getting 100% debuff on a single target is impossible. As a Kinetics, getting even a 20% debuff 100% of the time is problematic enough.|
Originally Posted by Deacon_NA
If you put an Achilles Heel in every Rad Blast attack, you know what the MAX -resist you'd achieve? 20%, period, it doesn't stack. Sonic stacks amazingly, getting a 100% debuff on a single target is easy enough. That means, when you fulcrum shift and get your team to the damage cap, sonic lets you double it (does not account for purple patch or resists). AOE resists from Howl can stack, oh, twice for -40% for the crowd.
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If you're fighting an AV/GM at 50, you'll use:
Siphon Power about once every 8 sec
Transfusion about once every 4 sec
Fulcrum Shift about once every 20 sec
That means over 50% of the time you're using some Kinetics ability and we haven't even talked about Siphon Speed and Transference yet.
And in any situation except fighting that AV/GM, Sonic is horrible. It has bad AE and its single target damage is dependent on repeatedly blasting the same target.
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| Anyway, I hated to see the OP getting persuaded by bad advice and thought I'd offer some assurance that, if you're enjoying playing it (which it seems you are) then keep on. If there comes a time you don't, sure, move on. |
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I suppose it's sufficient to say we have different playstyles. Or at least we run in different circles. I'd be surprised if I used Transfusion more than once every 30 seconds. And if a 20% debuff is problematic... aye-yi-yi.
| Getting 100% debuff on a single target is impossible. As a Kinetics, getting even a 20% debuff 100% of the time is problematic enough. |
Global = Hedgefund (or some derivation thereof)
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What sets don't rely on repeatedly blasting the same target for single target damage? That's the definition of single target.
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Originally Posted by Beauregard
It has bad AE and its single target damage is dependent on repeatedly blasting the same target.
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Culex's resistance guide
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This.|
Originally Posted by Pitho
What sets don't rely on repeatedly blasting the same target for single target damage? That's the definition of single target.
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I also made a Kin/Son recently. My approch, though, tends to differ as I am not used to playign support sets very much. So I tend to focus on attacking more than buffing. Don't get me wrong, I still Speed Boost, use the heals, the other buffs and so on, but I don't hit them right away if I can get a few good attacks in.
Remember, a defender might not be damage focused, but they are NOT damage incapable.
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This is the sort of comment that really makes me wonder if the poster actually plays the game. Except in very long AV/GM fights, Defenders tend to be constantly switching targets rather than concentrating on one target because the targets don't live that long.|
Originally Posted by Pitho
What sets don't rely on repeatedly blasting the same target for single target damage? That's the definition of single target.
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To generalize a great deal, Sonic blast powers do 30% less damage in anticipation of the fact that you'll do 40% more once you've used two powers. Which is a nice scheme except for the fact that you won't ever get a chance to use that third (and subsequent) power on the bulk of what you fight.
It's also a scheme that really falls apart when significant parts of your 'rotation' are non-Sonic abilities from your primary.
Even on AV/GM fights - where you do blast away repeatedly on the same target - shaving 5 secs off the fight is far less important than actually surviving the fight in the first place.
That's why "good single target damage" tends to be the "she has a nice personality" of power set descriptions. Single target damage isn't really what matters in a Blast set - you're going to get very similar performance from virtually any Blast set in that regard.
So.. I'm wondering... when did sonic blast kick your kitten? You've clearly got a serious hate on for it, tossing a ton of mis-information vaguely disguised with incorrectly used math.
The breathless, white-knuckled drama in this thread aside, I'd throw in another vote for Earth/Kin trollers. Enormously useful support toons that can supercharge even the worst teams. The -def in the various Earth powers helps your Kin powers hit that much more. Several of your control powers are drops, letting you deploy then shift to buffing/debuffing.
If you really enjoy the pulling a failing team back from the Abyss and turning the tide of the most brutal battles, its a great combo.
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Thanks for more replies!
Wow, this is not easy, so far I have a level 26 kin/sonic and a level 20 kin/ice and I have a hard time deciding between the two due to the discussion in this thread 
But now I'm pondering earth/kin as well.. hmm..
Other then that I love kinetics so far at these lower levels. My gameplay style is to gather up my own team and go do a story arc or TF, pretty much never solo and it's so far kinetics seem very good for that kind of playing. I greatly enjoyed my role in the Positron and Synapse TFs.
Hi all.
I'm feeling the urge to play a kinetics (the support/buff set) as I've never really done so. As a player I have a team support mentality and usually form my own team to play with, so I have a feeling I would greatly enjoy it.
And I'd like some recomendations on what kind of character to make it on
The two top contenders I have myself is a kinetics/sonic defender, and a plant/kin controller. If anybody has experience playing either of those two (I'm especially interested in hearing about plant/kin controllers) that would be awesome.
Other recomendations are cool too, I'm very open about it right now.
Main goal with the character is the ability to gather up a ragtag band of random people and go take on whatever the game can throw at us!