If they lowered the time it takes to shift forms and made it so that toggles stayed on while shapeshifted, I would be one happy WS. I don't think the toggles should actually work while shifted. I just don't want to have to retoggle them when I shift back to human.
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this is all thats really needed .. and maybe a lil increase in dmg..|
Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy
Well yeah. No one wants Peacebringers to get the Warshade's slow secondary. We just want it to be Knockdown instead of Knockback. It makes no sense for an AT with higher survivability potential than many Tank sets to need KB for mitigation while knocking things out of range of it's own attacks.[/LIST]
None of the (good) suggestions called for that. We just want the animations sped up and we want toggles to suppress (remain turned on but not affect us while shape shifted) and then resume working as normal while in human form without having to retoggle.[/LIST] |
Im now pvping with my shade and its hella fun.. and my pb is my top pvper.. and using my shade pvp build in pve is like im almost unstoppable against +2 size 8 team malta.. i dont use forms anymore.. too slow for my play style.. but i beleive that would help many if froms were just a suppression and the animation was cut down..
that is all.. we dont need a overall
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I said for PBs. This wasn't for warshades. Also, I said to remove the +dmg from Nova Form and just make the attacks more powerful, so this would benefit warshade nova since their damage cap is coming off of a higher base power.|
Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy
You're missing the point with Dwarf... Light Form/Eclipse cap resistance anyways. More resistance isn't the answer. For a Warshade, a +dmg for Nova is worthless on a Tri Form build since Nova is the AOE form and against enough enemies where it would be appropriate to use Mire, a Tri Form shade can cap their damage anyways.
I would be down with removing the crashes from the Shade/PB Nukes, scaling down the damage a bit, and making them Nova form powers. That would make the most sense to me. |
Anyway, on Dwarfs: I know that Perma-lightform is the big build that provides minor mezz protection, recovery bonus, and capped resistances. But, not everyone is IOing out their Khelds for high recharge. Or even IOing them out at all. To this, light form leaves a fairly large hole in a player's resistances, and also against enemies that can give a more potent mezz than mag 3. Of course, if you six slot the power to also provide resistances you're helpless without light form, so without going perma there is little reason to do so. Instead, you have to keep the resistance toggles and slot those to be effective, then keep them running while lightform is active to get capped resistances. Then the crash comes, and it has gotten me killed on more than one occasion.
Even with upgraded resistances, White Dwarf will be weaker than Perma-lightform. The suggestion was made with the idea that Dwarf Form would exist as the go-to defensive set for those who SO build or need greater mezz protection.
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Just for context I play a peacebringer who in theory is tri-form but in practice is human/dwarf (slot crunch limitations and generally preferring the extra resilience in human form compared to the squishiness of nova) and as such do not have a huge amount of experience as regards Nova form.
Anyhow I'm just throwing out a suggestion regarding a possible improvement to dwarf form that came to me whilst I was dosed up on co-codamol earlier today (so make of it what you will ).
What if we gave Dwarf form an inherent slow and -recharge resistance (because -recharge is a real killer when you have as few powers as you do in Dwarf form and it also fits the mental image I have of Dwarf form being this implacable mountain of muscle and momentum that is the proverbial unstoppable force).
This makes Dwarf the go-to when facing lots of enemies throwing out web-grenades like confetti and also helps keep the dwarf attack chain from stalling totally from a single -recharge.
Another idea is possibly (and this a slightly off the wall idea that I'm not totally convinced of myself so feel free to take it apart and say why it wont work/is-a-bad-idea-because) add a global recharge bonus whilst in dwarf form.
At a stroke it smooths out the dwarf attack chain, helps out with the slot crunch (less need to slot recharge enhancements in the dwarf form powers) and also helps some of the human form big-hitters recharge quicker; which might encourage a more flowing style with regard to form shifting (at least as regards peacebringers - we already know why form-shifting works well for Warshades when done right). Admittedly it would likely also need a change regarding the human form toggles and shifting to be properly effective but that has already been discussed to death.
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While it is a somewhat good idea, giving Dwarf more resistance will not be enough to "fix" Kheldians, especially with your last comment that it really only makes a difference on SO builds and/or builds that desire more mez protection. To me, a Kheldian is conceptually supposed to be tri-form, and was originally designed with the idea that players would take and use both Dwarf and Nova. Human-only builds have ended up winning the performance battle though, and most people would probably agree that little to nothing is wrong with human-only Kheldians at the moment. There are things that could be improved for them certainly, but tri-forms still face a significant drop in efficiency and look and feel awkward and clunky in practice until you master the playstyle after what I personally believe to be one of the steepest learning curves in the game. The Nova buff, along similar lines, is common sense. However, it does nothing to improve tri-forms. My philosophy is that the reward of tri-forms should always be worth the learning curve, and, in the present state of the game, I'm not certain it is. Especially when the recent buffs show a dangerous preference for human builds. It is, however, theoretically possible that research by the developers determined that most PBs on the live servers are human-only. If there was a limit on which changes could be finished and implemented for i21, it is probable that such information would have prompted them to release the changes they did, because, while providing considerable benefit to tri-formers, they offered even greater benefit to human-only PBs.|
Originally Posted by Blood Red Arachnid
I said for PBs. This wasn't for warshades. Also, I said to remove the +dmg from Nova Form and just make the attacks more powerful, so this would benefit warshade nova since their damage cap is coming off of a higher base power.
Anyway, on Dwarfs: I know that Perma-lightform is the big build that provides minor mezz protection, recovery bonus, and capped resistances. But, not everyone is IOing out their Khelds for high recharge. Or even IOing them out at all. To this, light form leaves a fairly large hole in a player's resistances, and also against enemies that can give a more potent mezz than mag 3. Of course, if you six slot the power to also provide resistances you're helpless without light form, so without going perma there is little reason to do so. Instead, you have to keep the resistance toggles and slot those to be effective, then keep them running while lightform is active to get capped resistances. Then the crash comes, and it has gotten me killed on more than one occasion. Even with upgraded resistances, White Dwarf will be weaker than Perma-lightform. The suggestion was made with the idea that Dwarf Form would exist as the go-to defensive set for those who SO build or need greater mezz protection. |
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Originally Posted by White_Warlock
Just for context I play a peacebringer who in theory is tri-form but in practice is human/dwarf (slot crunch limitations and generally preferring the extra resilience in human form compared to the squishiness of nova) and as such do not have a huge amount of experience as regards Nova form.
Anyhow I'm just throwing out a suggestion regarding a possible improvement to dwarf form that came to me whilst I was dosed up on co-codamol earlier today (so make of it what you will ). What if we gave Dwarf form an inherent slow and -recharge resistance (because -recharge is a real killer when you have as few powers as you do in Dwarf form and it also fits the mental image I have of Dwarf form being this implacable mountain of muscle and momentum that is the proverbial unstoppable force). This makes Dwarf the go-to when facing lots of enemies throwing out web-grenades like confetti and also helps keep the dwarf attack chain from stalling totally from a single -recharge. Another idea is possibly (and this a slightly off the wall idea that I'm not totally convinced of myself so feel free to take it apart and say why it wont work/is-a-bad-idea-because) add a global recharge bonus whilst in dwarf form. At a stroke it smooths out the dwarf attack chain, helps out with the slot crunch (less need to slot recharge enhancements in the dwarf form powers) and also helps some of the human form big-hitters recharge quicker; which might encourage a more flowing style with regard to form shifting (at least as regards peacebringers - we already know why form-shifting works well for Warshades when done right). Admittedly it would likely also need a change regarding the human form toggles and shifting to be properly effective but that has already been discussed to death. |
@Rorn ---- Blue Baron ---- Guardian
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A global recharge bonus awarded by Dwarf form would also benefit human form powers (such as Light Form and Inner Light). Simply reducing the recharge in the dwarf powers as you suggest would not only possibly require rebalancing them (as I suspect the recharge/end/damage may well be codependent - then again it might not be) but more importantly would be such a minor boost that it's not worth asking for. A couple luck of the gamblers would give me the same boost we'd likely get in straight up recharge reduction.|
Originally Posted by Vauluur
I think both suggestions go a long way toward fixing dwarf form for PBs since White Dwarf lacks the extra attack that Black Dwarf gets. I would, however, tweak the second suggestion slightly. Rather than a complete global recharge buff, simply lower the base recharge of the White Dwarf attacks. Encouraging a flowing pattern for shifts could be done by making another change of some kind. One of which I'm about to suggest right now in another thread. Remember the idea of this thread is to point out problems with existing suggestions. It isn't to explicit suggest new ones.
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I'd take the former any day.
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The problem I had with the global boost was specifically that it would also affect human powers. My concern is that a global recharge boost would require rebalancing on a much larger scale. I argue for a base recharge reduction in the Dwarf attacks merely because so many people complain about White Dwarf lacking a complete attack chain. Though, it wouldn't fully fix the issue there anyway. So, as you said, it is of small benefit.
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Originally Posted by Smiling_Joe
A global recharge bonus awarded by Dwarf form would also benefit human form powers (such as Light Form and Inner Light). Simply reducing the recharge in the dwarf powers as you suggest would not only possibly require rebalancing them (as I suspect the recharge/end/damage may well be codependent - then again it might not be) but more importantly would be such a minor boost that it's not worth asking for. A couple luck of the gamblers would give me the same boost we'd likely get in straight up recharge reduction.
I'd take the former any day. |
@Rorn ---- Blue Baron ---- Guardian
Nothing.
Yes, "Nothing", won't fix Khelds, so I suggest continue doing nothing. 
Quixotik
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Good news incoming from beta!
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| Luminous Aura / Restore Essence now grants a 15 second window of immunity to most damage after use. |
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Really, that's what they fix? Unbelievable.
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Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy
Good news incoming from beta!
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The Inspiration Maker's Guide [i12] UPDATED with POPMENUS and Movement Binds!
A Flash in the Dark: The Electric/Ninjitsu Stalker [i23]
Kheldian Inspiration Macros UPDATED with POPMENUS and Movement Binds!
Guide to the Katana~Ninja Blade/Electric [i23]
It's a fix to several self-rez powers, making them actually useful. Instead of just rezzing and then dying again because you didn't run away fast enough before you dropped, you can now rez and stay up long enough to get some toggles on and some healing done.
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Originally Posted by Microcosm
Really, that's what they fix? Unbelievable.
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Baby steps, Microcosm.
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I'll take it. Makes those powers more worth taking and using. And alas, they are useful, even on fairly tough characters. My Claws/Invuln Scrapper was never defeated while solo, and had a bad string of luck on a MoM trial. Sure, part of it was because he was only +1, but he was dropped once when rezzing (and not from pink patches). If we're going to have a self rez power, it should be useful and much better than a break free.|
Originally Posted by Microcosm
Really, that's what they fix? Unbelievable.
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I would love to see even more fixes, but it's something. As I have noted more than once, Khelds have so many wonky things going on throughout their powers list, it's hard to keep track of what needs doing. I didn't even notice this issue, but I'm glad it was fixed.
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