Looks like it's going to become important to slot AS for recharge.
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I have been playing around on my stalker and enjoying the changes so far. With my existing recharge, created a chain that seems to be working well with AS integrated. Fight a Rikti Pylon, you will see the difference.
Can someone test how well the assassin's focus stacks with the combo mechanic from StJ?
I have a dream of a chain such as BU > AS > Shinbreaker > Crushing Uppercut > Shin Breaker > AS doing insane single tgt damage.
@Viper Kinji
Currently working on:
Turtle Snapper - SD/MA/Ice Tanker
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That's what I had in mind as well, but I'm not sure how feasible it is in terms of recharge until i know how long the non-hide AS animation takes.
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Originally Posted by viper_kinji
Can someone test how well the assassin's focus stacks with the combo mechanic from StJ?
I have a dream of a chain such as BU > AS > Shinbreaker > Crushing Uppercut > Shin Breaker > AS doing insane single tgt damage. |
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Auroxis - Emp/Rad/Power Defender Pylon Video Soloing an AV
Pelvic Thunder - SS/Elec/Mu Brute
Sorajin - Elec/Nin Stalker
Neuropain - Sonic/Mental/Elec Blaster
Edited: Never mind, the official thread is there now. I'll post there instead.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
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Focus doesn't happen all the time. It says the chance of happening depends on what type of attack you are using. Longer activation time attacks have higher chance to get Focus. |
Originally Posted by viper_kinji
I have a dream of a chain such as BU > AS > Shinbreaker > Crushing Uppercut > Shin Breaker > AS doing insane single tgt damage. |
I've been playing my lvl 7 SJ and I don't always get 3 stacks of Focus. The duration is kinda short too.
We still need to test more. I have a feeling cone/aoe attacks have less chance to get Focus. I was using Sweeping Cross to open the battle on two Longbows that stood close but I didn't get one Focus.
It seems to generate Focus less often than the ST attacks and hitting more attacks doesn't seem to increase your chance. Or it could be just very bad luck but Focus definitely doesn't happen all the time.This means your "dream" combo may not critical all the time.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
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Yeah I agree. At first I was thinking "mmm, my lowbie Stalker is so going to own with the new Assassin Strike" but then after playing him for about an hour, I realize that without good recharge, I am not going to own that hard. At lvl 7, it is still better to start the fight with hidden Assassin Strike.
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Originally Posted by Daemodand
Looks like it's going to become important to slot AS for recharge.
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What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
I tested for a bit (was gonna join EvilRyu's Stalker LRSF and the lights went out, woohoo), and now I'm glad for two things:
1) That I decided to wait before respeccing my main toon I hadn't played for 2 years before deciding to Incarnate her (EM/Nin, old i12 PvP build) - because she won't be needing Energy Punch anymore (although I have to pick it) so more free slots for other stuff. Also, I seemed to have 3 AF most of the time but well she's EM so attacks are slow, but hey something good for EM in this buff, who would've guessed!
2) That I forgot to delete my ELM/Regen lol, she might be much better now with a strong ST attack (AS outta Hide) that all the other ELM ATs wish they had plus the new HP cap making Regen viable.
But... Claws and Martial Arts already had too many ST attacks, now what lol. On the other hand, DB might be much better now, I'm considering one since I find my DB/ELA scrapper a damage monster since SOs and now in her 40s I don't even use the PbAoE that much except when I wanna execute the Sweep combo. I also may finally be able to stomach a Spines toon with the new AS, who knows - these changes really add up to the AT.
The only thing I could ask for (wishful thinking) would be some debuffs in the epics/patrons so they could resemble Rogues from other games - like Banes already do, with team buffs and offensive debuffs. But hey Brutes have Darkest Night and Doms have Link Minds, one can dream...
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I was suggesting in the beta forum that epic/patron should generate Focus as well. The reason is that MA doesn't have aoe and on a large team, I usually start with BU + aoe (I tested Weapon mastery and throwing stars can now critical!!!) and then go in to finish off bosses. I feel MA/EM are at even greater disadvantage for large teamplay. |
Originally Posted by Kioshi
But... Claws and Martial Arts already had too many ST attacks, now what lol. On the other hand, DB might be much better now, I'm considering one since I find my DB/ELA scrapper a damage monster since SOs and now in her 40s I don't even use the PbAoE that much except when I wanna execute the Sweep combo. I also may finally be able to stomach a Spines toon with the new AS, who knows
- these changes really add up to the AT.The only thing I could ask for (wishful thinking) would be some debuffs in the epics/patrons so they could resemble Rogues from other games - like Banes already do, with team buffs and offensive debuffs. But hey Brutes have Darkest Night and Doms have Link Minds, one can dream... |
My old 50 Claw is on my twin brother's account and I don't feel like activating it just to test it (although isn't it free now? Maybe I can try later).
I thought about Claw. I think the new change will help it a lot because Claw lacks a good hard hitter like Spines. I already tested Spines and the new buff is wonderful because I can finally finish off a boss with critical AS without using Placate + AS + interrupted!.
Several things on my wish list:
1. Lower AS's endurance cost. Yes, I know that's the price you pay for having such awesome ST attack but if the goal is to turn Stalker into an even better ST damage dealer than Scrapper/Brute, then Stalker needs to be able to sustain that dps. I feel adding AS into attack chain costs a lot more endurance than I imagined. Set bonuses will definitely be needed for long fights.
2. Re-order Empower combo in Dual Blade so it's not tied with BU. I don't know how but it's annoying that I can only choose one of them. One thing I don't understand is that BU is already a damage buff, so why making another damage buff Empower to tie with Build Up? It's been a long time since I play Dual Blade. What's the damage + in Empower? I think it's 20% for 20s? Does it give +tohit buff as well? If Empower gives +tohit, then they should really re-order Empower because it makes less sense to tie two buffs together.
3. Add something to MA and EM. They already excel in ST damage and the additional of AS is nice but it has less impact on the overall performance. The new AS just makes you want to drop one of the early attacks (like energy punch or thunder kick or even crane kick).
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
Well yeah that just shows how badly some sets were ported to stalkers.
1) MA for example, even on scrappers/tankers there's absolutely no reason to get both Cobra Strike and Crane Kick, they're the same power with different secondary effects now. Thunder Kick is lol anyway, only Tankers don't skip it because they can't (and Storm Kick on Tankers is really awesome, I have a cheap build for my sd/ma that I'll probably never level past 30 that hits the incarnate softcap with one storm kick, I barely tried to go for defenses, she's softcapped with SK now on SOs and a Steadfast). She doesn't have Crane Kick, I picked Cobra, and even on SOs it looks like if I ever level her to get Eagle's Claw I would want to ditch Thunder kick if it didn't apply bruising.
2) EM suffers because you have to pick either Barrage or Energy Punch, I'll just leave EP unslotted or put a nucleolus in there when I respec, I barely use it now especially on itrials where I prefer the ranged ST epic blast.
3) DB is still weird. You have to pick all the attacks from what I see. While my 38 DB/Elec scrapper skipped the tier 1 (I ignored Empower and Weaken, they're meh anyway) and even though she's frankenslotted, I can use the BF-Attack Vitals chain almost gaplessly (I have 20% global rech from L. Reflexes). She is a little AoE monster on teams, because since I don't have to rely on complex mechanics for any combo, when I'm surrounded by enemies I use BF - Sweep (which is 1k cuts-Power Slice-Typhoon) - BF (if I want, just for double stacking) - Attack Vitals (Ablating-Vengeful-Sweeping). It's all very straighforward as long as I don't miss, and I'm not 'wasting' any attacks just to get a combo off, they're all doing their thing on their own, so I can Sweep-AV indefinitely and that is serious AoE mitigation and damage, and there is no long recharging power that I need to use to do my combo madness. Btw the scrapper record on Pylons before incarnate shenanigans is from a DB/ELA build (then a lot of dm/shields, fm/shields), so scrapper DB is awesome ST and AoE.
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Thanks for taking the time to look at it and provide feedback. I kinda knew it may be too good to be true but one can always hope |
Originally Posted by Jibikao
Focus doesn't happen all the time. It says the chance of happening depends on what type of attack you are using. Longer activation time attacks have higher chance to get Focus.
I've been playing my lvl 7 SJ and I don't always get 3 stacks of Focus. The duration is kinda short too. We still need to test more. I have a feeling cone/aoe attacks have less chance to get Focus. I was using Sweeping Cross to open the battle on two Longbows that stood close but I didn't get one Focus. It seems to generate Focus less often than the ST attacks and hitting more attacks doesn't seem to increase your chance. Or it could be just very bad luck but Focus definitely doesn't happen all the time.This means your "dream" combo may not critical all the time. |
@Viper Kinji
Currently working on:
Turtle Snapper - SD/MA/Ice Tanker
HOLY CARP!
Insta Assassin Strike. Almost no animation :O!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Your character does not have capped defense. Depending on your AT the cap is between 175% - 225%. Your defense is not teal in the combat window, it can go higher. STOP SAYING IT IS CAPPED! The correct term is Soft Cap.
I enjoy playing in Mids. I specialize in Melee Characters, other AT's usually bore me.
I just xferred one of my lvl 50 stalkers to beta (DB/Nin), the out of hide AS is amazing - it is like having old energy transfer on every stalker primary. My only gripe is I spent way too much time fixated on the focus stacking and trying not to waste the big crit on lowly minions, it'll take some getting used to for me but I like the change.
My only real question now is how much DPS does the new AS add to a high rech stalker single attack chain? My night widow just hit 295 DPS (3 min 48 second pylon kill without pets or outside buffs) with t4 reactive and t4 muscular, I'd like to see what a similiarly built MA could achieve.
I personally am planning on an attack chain of Siphon Life->Midnight Grasp->Siphon Life-Assassin's Eclipse. Hopefully I can find enough recharge :/
Your character does not have capped defense. Depending on your AT the cap is between 175% - 225%. Your defense is not teal in the combat window, it can go higher. STOP SAYING IT IS CAPPED! The correct term is Soft Cap.
I enjoy playing in Mids. I specialize in Melee Characters, other AT's usually bore me.
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Im still getting used to it :P I've always been used to the long animation for assassin's strike. When I first when to go use it on a target I thought it missfired cause it was so much faster than having to wait like 3-4 seconds to fire
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Originally Posted by _Pine_
HOLY CARP!
Insta Assassin Strike. Almost no animation :O!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
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Something for ppl to use
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I was looking at dual blade combos and I think the "weird" thing for stalker is that to get attack vital, you need to take the first two tier attacks, and yet, power, nimble and vengeful have weaker dps (cheaper on endurance usage). |
Originally Posted by Kioshi
3) DB is still weird. You have to pick all the attacks from what I see. While my 38 DB/Elec scrapper skipped the tier 1 (I ignored Empower and Weaken, they're meh anyway) and even though she's frankenslotted, I can use the BF-Attack Vitals chain almost gaplessly (I have 20% global rech from L. Reflexes). She is a little AoE monster on teams, because since I don't have to rely on complex mechanics for any combo, when I'm surrounded by enemies I use BF - Sweep (which is 1k cuts-Power Slice-Typhoon) - BF (if I want, just for double stacking) - Attack Vitals (Ablating-Vengeful-Sweeping). It's all very straighforward as long as I don't miss, and I'm not 'wasting' any attacks just to get a combo off, they're all doing their thing on their own, so I can Sweep-AV indefinitely and that is serious AoE mitigation and damage, and there is no long recharging power that I need to use to do my combo madness. Btw the scrapper record on Pylons before incarnate shenanigans is from a DB/ELA build (then a lot of dm/shields, fm/shields), so scrapper DB is awesome ST and AoE.
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My first told db, I skipped Ablating but I mainly opened the battle with BU + 1K Cuts. It's an easy to kill off minions and if there is a boss, I use Empowered combo. But Ablating is the better attack to use! It has 2nd highest dpa (behind sweeping) and it can trigger pbaoe procs (which I only found out recently).
And with enough recharge, you barely need to cycle power/nimble. You can simply do Ablating, Sweeping, Ablating (or vengeful) + AS and repeat.
Like I said, it seems like you can perform better without combos and I don't think that should be the case. Another thing I find it annoying is how Dual Blade has sequence and if you skip it, the combo breaks. For example, I wanted to open the battle with: BU + 1Kcut + AS + Ablating for Sweep Combo finisher but as soon as I use 1kcuts, Sweep combo sequence ends. I didn't want to use BU + AS + Ablating because that would put me in "slow mode" hehe (meaning I need to set up AS before the fight).
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
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I made a mistake thinking that it's activation time that determines Focus but it is recharge time. From my testing, if you use an attack with at least 10s recharge, you seem to be getting Focus almost 100% of the time (as long as you don't miss). |
Originally Posted by viper_kinji
Thanks for taking the time to look at it and provide feedback. I kinda knew it may be too good to be true but one can always hope
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The worst Focus gaining attack is Gambler's cut! I missed two Focus twice. That makes me change my attack chain. I include Flashing Steel instead since it has longer recharge.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
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I think you mean when Ablating Strike is used in a Sweep combo, any melee/def debuff procs slotted will roll for each target hit just like procs in a PBAoE power.|
Originally Posted by Jibikao
My first told db, I skipped Ablating but I mainly opened the battle with BU + 1K Cuts. It's an easy to kill off minions and if there is a boss, I use Empowered combo. But Ablating is the better attack to use! It has 2nd highest dpa (behind sweeping) and it can trigger pbaoe procs (which I only found out recently).
And with enough recharge, you barely need to cycle power/nimble. You can simply do Ablating, Sweeping, Ablating (or vengeful) + AS and repeat. |
Attack Chain: Ablating Strike-Sweeping Strike-Ablating Strike-(Build Up*)-Assassin's Blades-repeat.
* Add Build Up in that spot whenever it is charged.
What I believe will be a stalker DB's strongest ST attack chain will/can have the following:
-An AoE cone every 4ish seconds (Sweeping Strike)
-A PBAoE knockdown attack every 30ish seconds (Sweep combo)
-A damage resist debuff proc in Ablating Strike (Achilles' Heel)
-A damage resist debuff proc in Sweeping Stike (Fury of the Gladiator).
-The potential for 2 BU'd Assassin's Blade criticals (chain is fast enough to have 2 Assassin's Blades within 10s)
-Stalker's Guile purple ATO set into Assassin's Blade (1st Ablating Strike in chain will have more criticals).
-Hecatomb (5/6) set in Ablating Strike (Adds 33% chance for moderate NE damage)
-Armageddon (5/6) set in Sweeping Strike (Adds 33% chance for moderate Fire damage)
The chain takes about 5.2 seconds (Without BU). Just beware with great speed comes great end cost...
By using Ablating strike, you can trigger procs even outside of Sweeping Combo. I've tested this many times. I am sure it's a bug that they can't fix because Ablating is tagged as a pbaoe attack or something like that. One portion of it is suppressed so when using outside of sweeping combo, you only hit one target but the procs are trigged to PBAOE.
And the last time I checked, Stalker's Ablating cannot take -Defense set. Scrapper/Brute's can. Have they changed this recently? I forgot to check it when I was playing around with my old db build. I don't have my computer with me so I can't check it until next week.
The first time I tested Ablating, I was using chance for knock down. It works. A few days ago I was using chance for lethal damage from Mako set and it happens in pbaoe fashion. :P
Ablating just makes you not want to cycle Attack Vital combo which ties to two of the worst dpa attacks.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
Good thing about that chain is that BU>AS>AB gives you a little extra damage from pulling off the sweep combo.
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That's pretty crazy, I didn't know Ablating Strike work that way. Add PBAoE 33% chance to do moderate NE damage to my previous post. Does Vengeful Slice act the same way since it's the finisher for the Attack Vitals combo?|
Originally Posted by Jibikao
By using Ablating strike, you can trigger procs even outside of Sweeping Combo. I've tested this many times. I am sure it's a bug that they can't fix because Ablating is tagged as a pbaoe attack or something like that. One portion of it is suppressed so when using outside of sweeping combo, you only hit one target but the procs are trigged to PBAOE.
And the last time I checked, Stalker's Ablating cannot take -Defense set. Scrapper/Brute's can. Have they changed this recently? I forgot to check it when I was playing around with my old db build. I don't have my computer with me so I can't check it until next week. The first time I tested Ablating, I was using chance for knock down. It works. A few days ago I was using chance for lethal damage from Mako set and it happens in pbaoe fashion. :P Ablating just makes you not want to cycle Attack Vital combo which ties to two of the worst dpa attacks. |
2 of the worst? Attack Vitals on stalkers takes the 3 worst DPS attacks in the set.
Nimble Slash - 43.25
Power Slice - 43.67
Ablating Strike - 67.97
Assassin's Blade - ?
Vengeful Slice - 37.99
Sweeping Strike - 71.63
1000 Cuts - 41.84
One Thousand Cuts isn't the greatest but at least it can hit multiple targets. I am sure unhidden Assassin's Blade is the best DPS but I do not have the numbers for it. Superior damage in about 1.452s (Guesstimate).
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Attack Vital on Stalker is only single target. Attack Vital for brute/scrapper is cone. |
Originally Posted by ricohdah
That's pretty crazy, I didn't know Ablating Strike work that way. Add PBAoE 33% chance to do moderate NE damage to my previous post. Does Vengeful Slice act the same way since it's the finisher for the Attack Vitals combo?
2 of the worst? Attack Vitals on stalkers takes the 3 worst DPS attacks in the set. Nimble Slash - 43.25 Power Slice - 43.67 Ablating Strike - 67.97 Assassin's Blade - ? Vengeful Slice - 37.99 Sweeping Strike - 71.63 1000 Cuts - 41.84 One Thousand Cuts isn't the greatest but at least it can hit multiple targets. I am sure unhidden Assassin's Blade is the best DPS but I do not have the numbers for it. Superior damage in about 1.452s (Guesstimate). |
That's the problem with db. Attack Vital is the extra damage combo for Stalker and yet it ties to 3 of the worst dpa attacks. With enough charge, you really don't need to do attack vital. And then you have Sweep combo and empower combo tie Build Up which means you can only choose one.
Weaken combo is tied with power slice but I guess that's the most skippable combo.
You are right, the unhidden Assassin Strike is the best single target attack for the set.
I think I may toy with procs in Ablating. I want to add chance for knock down and chance for negative damage. hehe
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
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Jib, Ablating can take Defense Debuff and Accurate Def Debuff sets. Right now I have mine slotted with the Achille's Proc and 2 Analyze Weakness (to get the +10% Regen)
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Originally Posted by Jibikao
By using Ablating strike, you can trigger procs even outside of Sweeping Combo. I've tested this many times. I am sure it's a bug that they can't fix because Ablating is tagged as a pbaoe attack or something like that. One portion of it is suppressed so when using outside of sweeping combo, you only hit one target but the procs are trigged to PBAOE.
And the last time I checked, Stalker's Ablating cannot take -Defense set. Scrapper/Brute's can. Have they changed this recently? I forgot to check it when I was playing around with my old db build. I don't have my computer with me so I can't check it until next week. The first time I tested Ablating, I was using chance for knock down. It works. A few days ago I was using chance for lethal damage from Mako set and it happens in pbaoe fashion. :P Ablating just makes you not want to cycle Attack Vital combo which ties to two of the worst dpa attacks. |
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For Stalker? Oh that's good to know. When I learned that Ablating can trigger pbaoe procs (maybe 8 months ago?), I took my old toon out and I didn't see the -defense set assigned to Ablating. Maybe I was looking at the wrong power. There is even more reason to use Ablating then!
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Originally Posted by Benchpresser
Jib, Ablating can take Defense Debuff and Accurate Def Debuff sets. Right now I have mine slotted with the Achille's Proc and 2 Analyze Weakness (to get the +10% Regen)
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What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
Go test it now! Ask for level bump too.
I already PMed a dev about creating a Feedback thread for Stalker change.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.