Our humans are ugly
I'm sorry if this seems like a mean thing to say, but I just feel it's high time we accepted this and, more importantly, admitted that we need a solution to it. I was just watching the MMOgrinder review of City of Heroes, and it occurs to me that Chaos is not the first person to say our characters look plastic and doll-like. I agree that a lot of our newer, paid-for costume pieces look very good - better than a lot of contemporary games, actually.
But our humans are still ugly. Of all the old costumes in this game, some of by FAR the oldest are the basic human body shape and the human skin texture, and those have never been updated. And that's a problem. Our clothes and our armour are getting better and better, yet our bodies remain very ugly when we take those clothes off. Our necks are atrocious, our feet are cube-like, our hands have no fingers, our women's arms are cylindrical tubes, our skins have no definition, our hair is static and on and on and on. Obviously, some of those things are too resource-intensive to do. Fingers, for instance, would require the remodelling of all available gloves while moving hair would probably require new tech. But at least some of those things shouldn't be this hard to improve on. Our characters' basic physique is laughable. The old "naked" body modle is severely limited in terms of detailing, essentially the same as it was back in 2004, or 2001 or whenever those were first made. Giving us better BARE feet should not be this hard. Giving us a torso with better shoulders and more realistic physique should not be this hard. Giving us ankles that look like ankles should not be such a problem. Our costumes look great, but the characters inside those costumes still look blocky, dated and unrefined. But that's just me complaining. I want to turn this into something positive. Suppose you could change any number of things on the basic character model sans any clothes. What would they be, and in what order of importance would you arrange them? For me, those would be: *The skin. Our basic skin texture is far too simplistic and uncustomizable. We can do better. *The necks. Those double chins have to go. *The faces. The whole head mesh can do with a LOT more 3D details. *The arms. For women, these look like sausages more than like arms. *The feet. This is 2011. Shoes painted with toes on them is not good enough. *The ankles. There's just something really weird about those. *The hair. I don't know how other games do it, but having even short hair sway just looks cool. |
I agree though that most of those suggestions would improve the way our characters look.
Hell for some of these the direct competitor to this game that uses the next version of this game's engine STILL hasn't gotten a few of those things right.
![Stick Out Tongue](images/smilies/tongue.gif)
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I don't know how other games do it, but having even short hair sway just looks cool.
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And, of course, there will always be those who would complain about new shoulders and feet completely screwing up their characters.
Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound
Now how many years have I said this???
"Samual_Tow - Be disappointed all you want, people. You just don't appreciate the miracles that are taking place here."
If I had a quid for every time I've thought that?
I could retire. Right now. Happily.
And bloody hell do I wish they'd fix the basic model. But will they?
Uh....oh look, a new shiny!!
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Basically there's no way to get around the fact that this game is based on a game engine/system that's now pushing 10+ years old. Remember much of what we see here was established during the first years it took to initially develop this game before it officially launched.
I'll be the first to priase the efforts of our Devs for all the hard work they've done over the years to push the limits of what this game can do graphically. But sooner or later we'll have to accept that this game will never be able to last forever in its current form. At some point the amount of updating it'll require to stay competitive with newer games will become so massive that really the only reasonable alternative will be starting over with something like a CoH 2.0.
The complaint that "our humans are ugly" is starting to approach that tipping point where as Aura_Familia said the only way to adequately "solve" that problem will be to wait for the next game to be made.
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I was rescuing debutantes from joining the Carnival the other day, and I thought, poor girls, maybe I should let them join after all, a mask would only help them....
![](http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc232/minty89/coh%20photos/banner3.jpg)
my lil RWZ Challenge vid
I have to say, as an old-time comics fan, I love the fact that the heroes and villains look so much like good silver-aged comic book art rather than bulgy plastic puff-stickers, cell-shaded TV cartoons, or anime.
If I go back and look at my 80's and 90's comics, this game looks tons more like them than any other similar themed game out there. I guess people these days are thinking of the game more like a superhero movie than a comic book, but I like the authentic comic book look and feel.
I would be sad if the game started looking like an Xbox game (like some superhero movies lately have looked) or started to play like a first-person shooter--which seems to be what people who are less from a classic comic book angle and more from a "gamer" background seem to want.
But, I also know that ultimately people will vote with their dollars, and that will win out. I have two VIP accounts--one that is years old--so I get two votes :P!
That being said, I'd be first in line for COH 2.0, to support the games continuance and because I figure the Dev's would have learned a lot from the good, bad, and ugly they did (mostly good! I'm practically a fanboy!).
Basically there's no way to get around the fact that this game is based on a game engine/system that's now pushing 10+ years old. Remember much of what we see here was established during the first years it took to initially develop this game before it officially launched.
I'll be the first to priase the efforts of our Devs for all the hard work they've done over the years to push the limits of what this game can do graphically. But sooner or later we'll have to accept that this game will never be able to last forever in its current form. At some point the amount of updating it'll require to stay competitive with newer games will become so massive that really the only reasonable alternative will be starting over with something like a CoH 2.0. The complaint that "our humans are ugly" is starting to approach that tipping point where as Aura_Familia said the only way to adequately "solve" that problem will be to wait for the next game to be made. |
Not to mention the faces and hair. Dear god...the original line up didn't just get hit, they got run the hell over by the Ugly train...
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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That still doesn't explain why SOME of the feet and hands we have (for instance) look good, and some look like mittens and giant club-feet.
Not to mention the faces and hair. Dear god...the original line up didn't just get hit, they got run the hell over by the Ugly train... |
Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound
As much as I have said it to be a close second or third echoing the same thing.
For me it and I am sure many will agree, it is hard to come from another game with rich environments and awesome NPC's to City of and see your dated character and not have a crash in reality.
![](http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/5003/resistancesig2.png)
I was rescuing debutantes from joining the Carnival the other day, and I thought, poor girls, maybe I should let them join after all, a mask would only help them....
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![Stick Out Tongue](images/smilies/tongue.gif)
![](http://www.fightersgeneration.com/characters/jontalbain-win3.gif)
The funny thing is, our characters faces have a certain "uniqueness" to them. I think the more plastic look to the new steam-punk models seems off to me.
"Samual_Tow - Be disappointed all you want, people. You just don't appreciate the miracles that are taking place here."
![](http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/5003/resistancesig2.png)
I'd like some better looking (and more variety of) faces, but the more detailed ones that came with the steampunk and gunfighter sets are just plain creepy.
_________
@Inquisitor
I'm sorry if this seems like a mean thing to say, but I just feel it's high time we accepted this and, more importantly, admitted that we need a solution to it. I was just watching the MMOgrinder review of City of Heroes, and it occurs to me that Chaos is not the first person to say our characters look plastic and doll-like. I agree that a lot of our newer, paid-for costume pieces look very good - better than a lot of contemporary games, actually.
But our humans are still ugly. Of all the old costumes in this game, some of by FAR the oldest are the basic human body shape and the human skin texture, and those have never been updated. And that's a problem. Our clothes and our armour are getting better and better, yet our bodies remain very ugly when we take those clothes off. Our necks are atrocious, our feet are cube-like, our hands have no fingers, our women's arms are cylindrical tubes, our skins have no definition, our hair is static and on and on and on. Obviously, some of those things are too resource-intensive to do. Fingers, for instance, would require the remodelling of all available gloves while moving hair would probably require new tech. But at least some of those things shouldn't be this hard to improve on. Our characters' basic physique is laughable. The old "naked" body modle is severely limited in terms of detailing, essentially the same as it was back in 2004, or 2001 or whenever those were first made. Giving us better BARE feet should not be this hard. Giving us a torso with better shoulders and more realistic physique should not be this hard. Giving us ankles that look like ankles should not be such a problem. Our costumes look great, but the characters inside those costumes still look blocky, dated and unrefined. But that's just me complaining. I want to turn this into something positive. Suppose you could change any number of things on the basic character model sans any clothes. What would they be, and in what order of importance would you arrange them? For me, those would be: *The skin. Our basic skin texture is far too simplistic and uncustomizable. We can do better. *The necks. Those double chins have to go. *The faces. The whole head mesh can do with a LOT more 3D details. *The arms. For women, these look like sausages more than like arms. *The feet. This is 2011. Shoes painted with toes on them is not good enough. *The ankles. There's just something really weird about those. *The hair. I don't know how other games do it, but having even short hair sway just looks cool. |
Do you have a daily complaint quota, Sam? Because, really, making this particular complaint feels like you're reaching. You're playing a game that's been live for almost 8 years, and in development for a few years prior to that; having models which look inferior to those in new games is practically a conceit by this point.
Positron: "There are no bugs [in City of Heroes], just varying degrees of features."
TL;DR version: Characters created by a game engine that's about 10 years old look dated when compared to characters created by a newer engine.
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For the most direct example, look at ExoProto/Stealth/Zombie feet. They look like feet, not shoes painted to look like feet. The Zombie feet even come with a barefoot texture. Making better-looking bare feet out of them seems like a low-hanging fruit.
For a less direct example, look at what I did by swapping textures around. Giving us a more detailed texture which makes use of the new-tech shaders seems like a low-hanging fruit.
Once upon a time, David Nakayama offered to work on "updating" all of the ugly legacy pieces, by which he inferred that the old ones would disappear and new ones would replace them. While I was against removing the old pieces, I still want to see updated versions of them, even if I have to pay for them. The sad truth is that no matter what you add to the game, as long as the basic human model is seen as "sufficient," the heart of the matter - at least in my opinion - will never be addressed.
In the very simplest of terms, we're about due for a "human physique" Booster Pack or Costume Pack or whatever we're calling them these days.
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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It must be the way my mind works, but I havent really noticed an NPC in years and this sort of puts me in mind of the thread awhile back where people were complaining about the new, ugly coins over contact's heads.
Even though I dontnotice these things, Id be game for a new game engine whenever...itll just add to the epicness of everything we have already.
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That's precisely my point. We've gotten improved versions of everything but the basic skin model. Think about it for a moment - look at how cool and detailed bits like the IDF and Celestial sets are. Isn't it time we looked this good when we take off the armour, too? I mean, surely our own bodies can use this level of detailing, too.
For the most direct example, look at ExoProto/Stealth/Zombie feet. They look like feet, not shoes painted to look like feet. The Zombie feet even come with a barefoot texture. Making better-looking bare feet out of them seems like a low-hanging fruit. For a less direct example, look at what I did by swapping textures around. Giving us a more detailed texture which makes use of the new-tech shaders seems like a low-hanging fruit. Once upon a time, David Nakayama offered to work on "updating" all of the ugly legacy pieces, by which he inferred that the old ones would disappear and new ones would replace them. While I was against removing the old pieces, I still want to see updated versions of them, even if I have to pay for them. The sad truth is that no matter what you add to the game, as long as the basic human model is seen as "sufficient," the heart of the matter - at least in my opinion - will never be addressed. In the very simplest of terms, we're about due for a "human physique" Booster Pack or Costume Pack or whatever we're calling them these days. |
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I wouldn't mind an update to how our character models looked, but if we ended up with something like our Distinguished Competition's plastique or our Chief Opposition's shiny clay, I will throw a fit. Promise. City's character models are halfway between drawn art and reality, and that looks way better than those other two's.
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I wouldn't mind an update to how our character models looked, but if we ended up with something like our Distinguished Competition's plastique or our Chief Opposition's shiny clay, I will throw a fit. Promise. City's character models are halfway between drawn art and reality, and that looks way better than those other two's.
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Because the shading is baked into the costume parts, and is veyr often overdone too, that means that they have a permanent set of shading that only looks good in one light, and is too noticable to be hidden by different lighting - so when they move into a birghter or dimmer light, the shadows from the lighting clash with the painted shades, making them look either too strong or too weak, which leads to a slightly detatched effect between the avatars and the environment, as if the two aren't really together in the same space.
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
I'm sorry if this seems like a mean thing to say, but I just feel it's high time we accepted this and, more importantly, admitted that we need a solution to it. I was just watching the MMOgrinder review of City of Heroes, and it occurs to me that Chaos is not the first person to say our characters look plastic and doll-like. I agree that a lot of our newer, paid-for costume pieces look very good - better than a lot of contemporary games, actually.
But our humans are still ugly. Of all the old costumes in this game, some of by FAR the oldest are the basic human body shape and the human skin texture, and those have never been updated. And that's a problem. Our clothes and our armour are getting better and better, yet our bodies remain very ugly when we take those clothes off. Our necks are atrocious, our feet are cube-like, our hands have no fingers, our women's arms are cylindrical tubes, our skins have no definition, our hair is static and on and on and on.
Obviously, some of those things are too resource-intensive to do. Fingers, for instance, would require the remodelling of all available gloves while moving hair would probably require new tech. But at least some of those things shouldn't be this hard to improve on. Our characters' basic physique is laughable. The old "naked" body modle is severely limited in terms of detailing, essentially the same as it was back in 2004, or 2001 or whenever those were first made. Giving us better BARE feet should not be this hard. Giving us a torso with better shoulders and more realistic physique should not be this hard. Giving us ankles that look like ankles should not be such a problem.
Our costumes look great, but the characters inside those costumes still look blocky, dated and unrefined. But that's just me complaining. I want to turn this into something positive.
Suppose you could change any number of things on the basic character model sans any clothes. What would they be, and in what order of importance would you arrange them?
For me, those would be:
*The skin. Our basic skin texture is far too simplistic and uncustomizable. We can do better.
*The necks. Those double chins have to go.
*The faces. The whole head mesh can do with a LOT more 3D details.
*The arms. For women, these look like sausages more than like arms.
*The feet. This is 2011. Shoes painted with toes on them is not good enough.
*The ankles. There's just something really weird about those.
*The hair. I don't know how other games do it, but having even short hair sway just looks cool.