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I think WoW's art style could fit perfectly into CoH, and manage to have it's awesome outfits. Or rather CoH can have that detail and still keep it looking like CoH.
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Originally Posted by Wing_Leader
What did everyone think of the side-by-side screencaps of MMO Grinder's two characters, the one from WoW and the one from CoX intended to be a recreation of the WoW character (seen at the 6:25 mark of his video review)?
 The difference in texture/model detail is pretty noticeable, don't you think? Am I to believe that the detail exhibited by the WoW version would somehow feel out of place in CoX? I'm not sure I would agree, and I say that as someone who loves everything that makes (or can make) a superhero MMO look and feel like its source material. But maintaining low model or texture detail doesn't strike me as a laudible means to that end. As Sam said, it's not photorealism that's the goal, but surely the same kind of graphical improvements seen in more recent costume pieces could be applied, to good results, to the rest of the core model bits. The argument that hands and feet which look like bricks better embody the comic book aesthetic just doesn't ring true for me. |
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
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Neither is using skin, really. There's a discontinuous, non-matching colour gap between most new faces and our skin textures anyway, so while matching a face to a "tights for skin" top may seem off, it's not that much more off than matching a face to a skin top is already. The necks in this game are one of the most glaringly obvious problem areas of the character model, especially on women.
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Originally Posted by Amanita
I use tights for any exposed skin south of the neck where possible, matching as close as I can, which isn't perfect.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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The problem is the 'new' faces (the Victorian ones) land the wrong side of the Uncanny Valley as do the faces in both of our other MMOs, where they try to be stylised but also try to be realistic.
the WoW style works because it is a cartoony style so completely skips over the Uncanny Valley problem and CoH does this as well. I much prefer the look of characters in CoH than I do with our superheroic competition.
Also keep in mind that WoW has had a huge texture and engine overhaul with their latest expansion (the engine overhaul came with the previous one actually). Also mages can't do kicks, hence why they get robes and we don't.
Badge Earned: Wing Clipper
A real showstopper!
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The funny thing is, people keep ignoring the greatest examples of that right here in our own game;|
Originally Posted by Wing_Leader
What did everyone think of the side-by-side screencaps of MMO Grinder's two characters, the one from WoW and the one from CoX intended to be a recreation of the WoW character (seen at the 6:25 mark of his video review)?
-snip- The difference in texture/model detail is pretty noticeable, don't you think? Am I to believe that the detail exhibited by the WoW version would somehow feel out of place in CoX? I'm not sure I would agree, and I say that as someone who loves everything that makes (or can make) a superhero MMO look and feel like its source material. But maintaining low model or texture detail doesn't strike me as a laudible means to that end. As Sam said, it's not photorealism that's the goal, but surely the same kind of graphical improvements seen in more recent costume pieces could be applied, to good results, to the rest of the core model bits. The argument that hands and feet which look like bricks better embody the comic book aesthetic just doesn't ring true for me. |
Mirror Spirit and Foreshadow
Now, those aren't the highest quality pictures (from the wiki they be) but in-game those models are really damn nice.
So...why is THAT not the bar for all the PC pieces? Yes, it'd be a metric poop-ton of work, but wouldn't it be worth it? Even with our ageing engine, we CAN have shiny pieces that look really nice.
Just not the Victorian faces. Those are ugly and smack bang in the middle of uncanny valley. But we CAN have awesome pieces. So...why not?
(-Zoidberg?)
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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As far as I'm concerned, the Victorian and Steampunk faces come off as uncanny less because they're uncanny and more because they plain suck. Strip the normal maps off of them and they're still terribad faces. The batch of "new" faces that came before them, which are generally higher-resolution than the oldest ones, are much, much better to my eyes.
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Originally Posted by Dr_MechanoEU
The problem is the 'new' faces (the Victorian ones) land the wrong side of the Uncanny Valley as do the faces in both of our other MMOs, where they try to be stylised but also try to be realistic.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
The funny thing is, people keep ignoring the greatest examples of that right here in our own game;
Mirror Spirit and Foreshadow Now, those aren't the highest quality pictures (from the wiki they be) but in-game those models are really damn nice. So...why is THAT not the bar for all the PC pieces? Yes, it'd be a metric poop-ton of work, but wouldn't it be worth it? Even with our ageing engine, we CAN have shiny pieces that look really nice. Just not the Victorian faces. Those are ugly and smack bang in the middle of uncanny valley. But we CAN have awesome pieces. So...why not? (-Zoidberg?) |
I think Tech hit the nail right on the head here and I don't think it would really be that much work considering there are probably a dozen or so basic citizen models with various clothes and hair swaps.
"Samual_Tow - Be disappointed all you want, people. You just don't appreciate the miracles that are taking place here."
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This is always the case when you talk about costumes in this game, it seems. "This is City of Heroes, not another game. We don't want stuff from other games." Only to turn around and point out that... Yeah, it's pretty much in this game, too, and no-one's talking about reinventing the wheel, just adding more like what's already there.|
Originally Posted by Anti_Proton
I think Tech hit the nail right on the head here and I don't think it would really be that much work considering there are probably a dozen or so basic citizen models with various clothes and hair swaps.
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We already have higher-quality characters in the game and we already have higher-quality costume pieces in the game. I'm just hoping some of those newly-added higher-quality costume pieces will be human body parts at some point, to put it this way.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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I would kill to have access to good asian faces like that.
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Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
The funny thing is, people keep ignoring the greatest examples of that right here in our own game;
Mirror Spirit and Foreshadow Now, those aren't the highest quality pictures (from the wiki they be) but in-game those models are really damn nice. So...why is THAT not the bar for all the PC pieces? Yes, it'd be a metric poop-ton of work, but wouldn't it be worth it? Even with our ageing engine, we CAN have shiny pieces that look really nice. Just not the Victorian faces. Those are ugly and smack bang in the middle of uncanny valley. But we CAN have awesome pieces. So...why not? (-Zoidberg?) |
Est sularis oth Mithas
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Or the Titan Weapon she has holding her hair in place... |
Originally Posted by Arnabas
I would kill to have access to good asian faces like that.
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I want hair that detailed |
Originally Posted by Arnabas
I would kill to have access to good asian faces like that.
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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That, too.|
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
I want hair that detailed
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I want long curly hair for my Irish character.
Est sularis oth Mithas
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Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
The funny thing is, people keep ignoring the greatest examples of that right here in our own game;
Mirror Spirit and Foreshadow Now, those aren't the highest quality pictures (from the wiki they be) but in-game those models are really damn nice. So...why is THAT not the bar for all the PC pieces? Yes, it'd be a metric poop-ton of work, but wouldn't it be worth it? Even with our ageing engine, we CAN have shiny pieces that look really nice. Just not the Victorian faces. Those are ugly and smack bang in the middle of uncanny valley. But we CAN have awesome pieces. So...why not? (-Zoidberg?) |
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Originally Posted by Anti_Proton
I think Tech hit the nail right on the head here and I don't think it would really be that much work considering there are probably a dozen or so basic citizen models with various clothes and hair swaps.
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Tech swings, hits and forces me to agree!
Not that I entirely disagreed before, but I am always concerned about what someone may mean by "better".
I played another game for nearly three years and they "improved" the character's looks (after already ruining the game, I was only barely hanging on with some friends as it was)...
The so called "improvement" made it as though my three-year character used to be played by one actor who left the show and got replaced by an actor that looked nothing like the previous actor.
It sucked.
- Mini-SWGNGE-Rant OVER.
Take a look... I'm sure plenty will say my opinions on it are an overreaction, but -to ME- it was an intolerable difference.
For the record, I had already canceled, came back to make sure I wanted to cancel, before this change occurred.
@Zethustra
"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
By the way, speaking of Foreshadow, go back to the Hollows in-game and look at him. Notice that he has unique, custom upper arms. Those are not part of his torso, they are actually separate arms attached like our Robotic Arms are. Notice the "bands" he has around his shoulders? That's why they're there.
What this tells me - and it makes sense logically - is that we can have a whole variety of different "robotic arms" that are actually human arms, and this would be a great way to add different models of upper arms separate from the torso, meaning we could potentially have quite a few combinations to play around with.
Really, though, more options is what I mean. I'm not asking for a "better" human body. I'm asking for better human body parts to mix and match as I see fit. Nothing needs to be replaced, we just need something we don't have a lot of - customization of our bodies BEFORE we dress them up in costumes.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Well said and I fully agree.|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
...
Really, though, more options is what I mean. I'm not asking for a "better" human body. I'm asking for better human body parts to mix and match as I see fit. Nothing needs to be replaced, we just need something we don't have a lot of - customization of our bodies BEFORE we dress them up in costumes. |
I did understand this from your initial post, but I wandered off the path a little with the talks of "improvements" and complaints about the game's graphics and such. That is where the subjective nature of "better" becomes scary (as I displayed with my previous mmorpg's character's before and after picture. Some might think it is "better", but it was sure a lot worse to me).
I also have been hoping they'd do more with the "robotic arms" type of options. It is a GREAT way to incorporate a lot of fantastic options.
And I agree that these sort of options/additions/improvements have been lacking. I suppose the good news is that the Think Tank and the Back Pack have been introductory elements towards such things, but yes, base character model options, including textures, are a spot that could use some love... and, honestly, deserve some love.
@Zethustra
"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
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David Nakayama originally went down a similar path right at the start of his All Things Art thread, talking about remastering old pieces to give them newer textures and more advanced graphical effects, to which many (myself among them) recoiled. You see, one of the key arguments a number of us made when reflective textures were introduced was that these be done as optional alternatives to classic, non-reflective textures. Specifically, many resented the loss of the traditional version of Metallic and Armour plate - a problem I still have with them - and many others lamented about how poorly they worked with the other old pieces that they used to work with very well. David's ultimate goal was to retouch all old metallic pieces to make them reflective, as metals should be, which brought about a large argument over instances where metal isn't reflective, is dull or has been painted over.|
Originally Posted by Electric-Knight
I wandered off the path a little with the talks of "improvements" and complaints about the game's graphics and such. That is where the subjective nature of "better" becomes scary.
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I can definitely see the problem, as I've pointed it out before, but the thing is - it's not something to worry about. David made his point, the players made theirs and the net result is the art team lead left with a better appreciation of how poorly people reacted to losing things they enjoyed having before, and that what may have been "better" from a purely graphics standpoint wasn't always an adequate replacement in people's eyes. After all, what do you gain by taking people's stuff, really? Why not give them options and, if need be, just hide the old ones where players who want them can still find them? That's still on the agenda, as far as I'm aware.
I don't just want new and better body parts, I want a better system for designing my own body. We have about eleventy billion types of jackets, but we have all of ONE naked skin upper body. Why is that? Shouldn't some people be skinny, others fat, others very muscular and others still just sort of square? Shouldn't some people's arms have bigger hands on the end without having larger muscles... Or being male? It's not just the clothes we wear that should be customizable. What should also be customizable is the bodies we inhabit, and they... Aren't that much more customizable than your average MMO, to be honest. Once you take off your shirt, you basically have control of skin colour and that's about it. You can't customize your naked body under the shirt by very much. You have the same one body as everyone else, with merely the option to take off your gear and show it. And in a game with this much customization, there really ought to be more to it than that.
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Originally Posted by Electric-Knight
I also have been hoping they'd do more with the "robotic arms" type of options. It is a GREAT way to incorporate a lot of fantastic options.
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Originally Posted by Electric-Knight
And I agree that these sort of options/additions/improvements have been lacking. I suppose the good news is that the Think Tank and the Back Pack have been introductory elements towards such things, but yes, base character model options, including textures, are a spot that could use some love... and, honestly, deserve some love.
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The clothes we have to wear (for obvious reasons) limit our ability to customize the bodies we wear them over, and that's a cryin' shame. Physical customization can do with an update. A big one, as a point of fact. And it's an update I would gladly - GLADLY - pay for.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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I can definitely appreciate the controversy involved in making drastic changes to existing pieces. Reflective properties are definitely in that category of "too much change". But I think when you look at many of the old costume pieces, it is obvious what the low-res texture was trying to get across, but fell short due to early limitations. In most of these cases a new-and-improved version of the same exact concept would, well, be an improvement.|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
David Nakayama originally went down a similar path right at the start of his All Things Art thread, talking about remastering old pieces to give them newer textures and more advanced graphical effects, to which many (myself among them) recoiled. You see, one of the key arguments a number of us made when reflective textures were introduced was that these be done as optional alternatives to classic, non-reflective textures. Specifically, many resented the loss of the traditional version of Metallic and Armour plate - a problem I still have with them - and many others lamented about how poorly they worked with the other old pieces that they used to work with very well. David's ultimate goal was to retouch all old metallic pieces to make them reflective, as metals should be, which brought about a large argument over instances where metal isn't reflective, is dull or has been painted over.
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Many of the old pieces try to suggest ridges or buckles or seams or fabric textures with raised edges/bumps but represent them with flat, painted lines. Making those features which were always meant to have actual thickness to them can be better achieved with the sort of technology available now. I see no reason not to go back and make those old textures into a form closer to what they were always intended to be. I would step back from changing the way light reflects off those pieces, or the way that colorization interacts with them. But in terms of apparent geometric/bump detail, I think an uprezing pass with bump/normal mapping would be quite welcome on many of the older pieces.
Sorry if all this has already been covered to death in David N's thread.
NOR-RAD - 50 Rad/Rad/Elec Defender - Nikki Stryker - 50 DM/SR/Weap Scrapper - Iron Marauder - 50 Eng/Eng/Pow Blaster
Lion of Might - 50 SS/Inv/Eng Tanker - Darling Nikkee - 50 (+3) StJ/WP/Eng Brute - Ice Giant Kurg - 36 Ice/Storm Controller
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We covered it, yes, but I don't mind bringing it up, since it is kind of relevant. The thing is - and that's one of the big things that we got out of the All Things Art thread - is that these changes are never as simple as "just" applying bump maps or "just" making higher-resolution versions of the old textures. They "just" added reflections to Tech Sleek and it went from something I wanted to use to something I'm never going to touch again because it's just absurd.|
Originally Posted by Wing_Leader
I can definitely appreciate the controversy involved in making drastic changes to existing pieces. Reflective properties are definitely in that category of "too much change". But I think when you look at many of the old costume pieces, it is obvious what the low-res texture was trying to get across, but fell short due to early limitations. In most of these cases a new-and-improved version of the same exact concept would, well, be an improvement.
Many of the old pieces try to suggest ridges or buckles or seams or fabric textures with raised edges/bumps but represent them with flat, painted lines. Making those features which were always meant to have actual thickness to them can be better achieved with the sort of technology available now. I see no reason not to go back and make those old textures into a form closer to what they were always intended to be. I would step back from changing the way light reflects off those pieces, or the way that colorization interacts with them. But in terms of apparent geometric/bump detail, I think an uprezing pass with bump/normal mapping would be quite welcome on many of the older pieces. Sorry if all this has already been covered to death in David N's thread. |
This is tangentially related to the "Time for CoH 2" thread, in the sense that you can't just take old textures and "clean them up." You have to make new textures, and while you're making new textures, you might as well take some creative liberties and put that snake skin patter into the leather or put that elaborate scratch pattern on the metal plate or reinvent whatever that pattern is on the Medieval pieces that's too low-res to see. You end up with pieces that resemble the old ones, but aren't the old ones.
For a somewhat relevant example, look at what UT2003 did with its remakes of original UT99 maps like Facing Worlds. Where the original was just two towers on two floating islands connected by rock bridges, the new one had significantly larger, more tech-looking towers with more floors, much greater distance between them and an inexplicable pyramid in the middle. It got to the point where they eventually had to release Facing Worlds Classic with I think UT2004 that was pretty much the old map, just with more detailing on textures and meshes.
The point is, "upgrading" the old costume pieces is never going to be just about taking the old pieces and making them better. It'll be about making new pieces that resemble the old ones, but reflect a different, more "modern" style of graphics. In his recent Deviant Art thread, David Nakayama had a pretty solid argument in favour of "extra" detailing, like the hex pattern on "that Kevin Spacey Super Man" movie. I don't want to misrepresent what the man has said, but what I got out of it was that the style City of Heroes is shooting for is one of stylised realism, which means basic flat textures aren't really desirable, and instead more minutely detailed ones - like the snake skin pattern on the new Circle of Thorns - are what they'd like to create.
Personally, I'm not a big fan of that. I don't hate it, so I'm not going to go out of my way to argue against it, but by the same token, I don't want to lose my old pieces that often don't have that over it. Like I said - new additions will more or less constitute new pieces drawn up in the spirit of the old ones, but not necessarily constrained into being exact copies. As long as that's the case, then I insist that I retain access to the old pieces alongside the new. If the new ones turn out the really just be objectively superior, then sure, I'll use 'em. If I end up not liking them... Why NOT keep using the old ones? I like the old Medieval set in its entirety and I'd hate to have much of anything happen to it, for instance.
This is why I would never suggest replacing our basic bodies with better ones - because in the world of artwork, "better" is a subjective term. DX11 graphics don't make an item better than it would have been under DX5 graphics, more detail isn't always superior to less detail as a post I ran across recently demonstrates and while I've gone up and down asking for a more muscular skin texture for women, I'd never claim that were "better." If it were, then I'm fully capable of modding my own game to make my own skins look like that, but then my characters who aren't supposed to be muscular become muscular and it looks off-model. Options and additions are the key to success, and it really benefits much of no-one to take them away. I'm not a big fan of the bodies we have now, but I still wouldn't want to lose the option to use them nevertheless.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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This feels like a product management issue, not an axiomatic Truth that nobody can do anything about. If the product manager in charge of updating the graphical quality of the old pieces does not allow them to "reflect a different, more modern style of graphics" (which would be at odds with the overall aesthetic those pieces originally embodied), then we should be fine. As long as the goals are clearly understood, clearly laid out, and followed with discipline, no derailment of intent should occur. |
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
The point is, "upgrading" the old costume pieces is never going to be just about taking the old pieces and making them better. It'll be about making new pieces that resemble the old ones, but reflect a different, more "modern" style of graphics.
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If you are saying that there is no way to insure this given a cynical view of human nature, well, I can't and won't argue along those lines. That is a philosophical view that I feel limits human endeavors unnecessarily. I prefer to think that it is very possible to get the right person to lead a successful update effort that produces results 99% of customers would be happy with. Call me a naive optimist, but that's what I believe.
The fact that mistakes were made before indicates to me only that the past effort was poorly (or incorrectly) defined and perhaps too broad in its allowable interpretation. There are remedies for that.
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See, that's kind of the thing. Ultra Mode set a new standard of graphical fidelity by which old pieces now seem out of place. I had one charming fellow insult me to my face and tell me that he was more bothered to look at my ugly low-resolution textures that didn't belong than I was to lose the original Metallic and the like. Pity I lost the recipe for tough cookies I offered him.|
Originally Posted by Wing_Leader
This feels like a product management issue, not an axiomatic Truth that nobody can do anything about. If the product manager in charge of updating the graphical quality of the old pieces does not allow them to "reflect a different, more modern style of graphics" (which would be at odds with the overall aesthetic those pieces originally embodied), then we should be fine. As long as the goals are clearly understood, clearly laid out, and followed with discipline, no derailment of intent should occur.
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The thing is that you're right - pieces like these really don't fir the older thematic, but the solution isn't to stick to the older thematic, it's to "fix everything" as time permits... When time will never permit regardless of circumstances. I'm running too close to bashing people I respect over stupid things so I REALLY want to drop that line of argument here, be what may.
Instead, let me just say this - I don't see any real problem with leaving old pieces behind in the editor even if "better" versions of them are made.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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I think were missing the big question: they know the NPC models look dated, but will they change them to fit the new background? I have noticed when it comes to alot the things we ask for the same response pops up: Time and resources, or limitations to the engine. I am no tech guy, I learn by watching and I have seen a couple of old games like COX, upgrade their engine and they look better. So it is limitation of engine or what?
I hate the old contacts and low res and poligons civilians.
Hate them with passion.
They should be replaced with Praetoria new civilians.
I requested this tons of times. Old civilians are messing new shiny Atlas Park.
Also, NPC like City representative or Azuria... Update them, I even posted new versions using the CC in a thread that was ignored.
Looks like they only work on things they can sell at the market...
There is no limitation of the engine in this matter, Praetoria have some new civilians.
And NPC in Cimerora too.
Well, I have no illusions with regard to the priority level given to such a graphical update project. It is zero, or near-zero, and I understand why. I don't even pretend to believe their priorities match my priorities, but I can still wish for things. And try to refute illogical (to me) excuses, like engine limitations or "they got it wrong once, they'll always get it wrong in the future, so we're better off not asking them for anything."
Oh, and Sam, I don't dispute that some folks would complain if improved versions of the old low-res textures were replacements rather than additions to the costume piece library. But, assuming the updated versions didn't add anything but resolution and relief as the original texture always intended, I don't see the problem. There may be whining from some fraction of one percent who feel their costumes are "ruined" by such an update, but I just don't believe it is worth cluttering the costume closet with what are essentially duplicates of pieces, just to appease them.
NOR-RAD - 50 Rad/Rad/Elec Defender - Nikki Stryker - 50 DM/SR/Weap Scrapper - Iron Marauder - 50 Eng/Eng/Pow Blaster
Lion of Might - 50 SS/Inv/Eng Tanker - Darling Nikkee - 50 (+3) StJ/WP/Eng Brute - Ice Giant Kurg - 36 Ice/Storm Controller
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Easy example - if you replace the old "painted-on clothes" with actual textures, you kill my ability to swap my skin texture underneath them. Yes, the game doesn't exactly support this at the moment, but I'd like it to. As one of the people who would complain if my pieces were taken away from me and replaced with something I may not like as much for various reasons, I see nothing to be gained by removing these pieces from the editor. Clutter shouldn't be a problem now that we can wheel-scroll through drop-down lists of options.
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Originally Posted by Wing_Leader
Oh, and Sam, I don't dispute that some folks would complain if improved versions of the old low-res textures were replacements rather than additions to the costume piece library. But, assuming the updated versions didn't add anything but resolution and relief as the original texture always intended, I don't see the problem. There may be whining from some fraction of one percent who feel their costumes are "ruined" by such an update, but I just don't believe it is worth cluttering the costume closet with what are essentially duplicates of pieces, just to appease them.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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This.|
Originally Posted by Electric-Knight
I share similar tastes and feelings as herotoonefan and was going to mention roughly the same stuff.
Not that I'm against some improvements, mind you, but I really don't find myself having an negative issue with how the character models look. The thing that does really bug me about the characters is the SEAMS... especially the skin textures and the neck! So, I could certainly see fixing up the skin textures some, although "fixing" can become such a subjective thing it can be scary. The feet and hands, funny enough, never really bother me. The hair doesn't bug me either. Sure, I love greater modern graphics (although, not what I've seen in other mmorpgs, that's for sure), but I have zero negative issues with the looks of this game's characters. Yes, it is an older game, but I think the style really does a great job of bending with the time. To each their own, of course, but I thought I'd make my own opinions known along with the rest of the feedback. |
Also, may I note that a good deal of the newer faces, IMO, are purely hideous... like the Steampunk faces.
I havve been saying this for a while, too. One thing that has bothered me for a long time is the feet. I have a couple of characters who, thematically, would go barefoot, but the "boots with toes" are horrible.
I really want new faces, too. I have used the same few faces far too many times.
Est sularis oth Mithas