Using Ion on Civilians in TPN (Yes, this happened)
By
AkuTenshiiZero,
Posted on: 2011-12-28 18:29 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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Nothing says "Uh. We pancaked up." like "Here's a power, NOW DON'T USE IT!"
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Originally Posted by Scarlet Shocker
Good for him for demonstrating what a poorly designed Trial the TPN really is.
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Now, that's the REAL villains.|
Originally Posted by Kioshi
Heh 5 minutes ago someone was broadcasting in Freedom AP about some idiot who used Judgement on civvies
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We villains don't give a s@#$ about civilian's life or friendly fires. We just kill. :P
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
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Understood|
Originally Posted by Scarlet Shocker
Good for him for demonstrating what a poorly designed Trial the TPN really is.
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Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
Nothing says "Uh. We pancaked up." like "Here's a power, NOW DON'T USE IT!"
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Which brings up another point that IMHO is being overlooked is the fact that MOM and TPN require you "not" to use certain powers, Depending on the build and AT this can go a LONG way in making these trials UNFUN.
The entire don't use this or that power because of the gimmicky way the devs set up the trial is basically an auto-failure in terms of something being easily accessible and attractive to the wider player base. I didn't go through 50 levels of content to get to powers that now I can't use in certain I trials because of the design. That is failsauce to the extreme.
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
This is war nuke the bastards. We didn't seem to mind when it was the Japanese in WW2 and I'm sure lots and lots of civilians were in fact nuked and that was real life.
Just another reason this trial fails and the writing is awful awful awful.
I have to stand with the "make the other poor ******* die for his country" group. They already sent War Walkers to try and wipe out our cities; why should we play nice? You mess with the bull, you get the horns. Or in our case, you mess with the superpowered community, you get two thousand megatons of raw power to the face.
My guides:Dark Melee/Dark Armor/Soul Mastery, Illusion Control/Kinetics/Primal Forces Mastery, Electric Armor
"Dark Armor is a complete waste as a tanking set."
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Yep. My Fire/Rads, whose bread-and-butter are Choking Cloud, Hot Feet, and mostly AoE attacks? I'd never even CONSIDER taking them in for something like this.
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Originally Posted by Darth_Khasei
Understood
True. Which brings up another point that IMHO is being overlooked is the fact that MOM and TPN require you "not" to use certain powers, Depending on the build and AT this can go a LONG way in making these trials UNFUN. |
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Praetorian Earth as seen from space...|
Originally Posted by Nalrok_AthZim
I have to stand with the "make the other poor ******* die for his country" group. They already sent War Walkers to try and wipe out our cities; why should we play nice? You mess with the bull, you get the horns. Or in our case, you mess with the superpowered community, you get two thousand megatons of raw power to the face.
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I could get behind that.|
Originally Posted by Scarlet Shocker
A compromise might be to give the League Leader some brighter text colour by default. If a functioning league all has their league chat window open it's simple enough to follow instruction
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Possibly have the bigger font in the UI window - much how on the ITF when Romulus is doing his speech his text is at least twice as big as ours AND it is half blue/half violet!
Having the league leader talk in a blended colour that is size "5" might help.
@War-Nugget
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Originally Posted by Wavicle
CoH players are stupid and incompetent compared to WoW players.
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While I am not a fan of the "don't do this or your league can fail", I don't think you can draw this conclusion from its presence in the TPN. The general rule is simple, if you rely primarily on AoEs for damage, don't fight the Seers - go inside and fight the IDF. There's never any good reason to hold back AoEs when fighting Maelstrom outside. So unless someone is dense or refuses to read team chat, barring the occasional misfire, this simply should not be a problem.|
Originally Posted by Scarlet Shocker
Good for him for demonstrating what a poorly designed Trial the TPN really is.
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There are a bunch of things that annoy people about the TPN. The noisiest complaint I see on the forums is generally this notion of civilians doing grievous harm to supers using rocks. (Let's not devolve into discussing that here, there's at least one whole thread on it.) It's definitely repetitive, though if you rack up Public Opinion rapidly, it is less so. I personally find being ganked by Maelstrom while moving from building to building incredibly annoying - when it happens there's nothing I can do about it, and that's never fun. But overall, I don't find the trial poorly designed in a mechanical sense. I find it a decent trial with a few things that I wish worked or were presented differently. I find its rewards excellent.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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That's a needless self restriction. All you need to to is point out to the leader that you shouldn't be devoted to fighting Seers, assuming your league assigns anyone to that. (Many do not.) The notion that AoE-centric characters are no good in the entire trial is mistaken.
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Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
Yep. My Fire/Rads, whose bread-and-butter are Choking Cloud, Hot Feet, and mostly AoE attacks? I'd never even CONSIDER taking them in for something like this.
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Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
If the person fesses up and admits they goofed, I am probably willing to forgive a goof. It happens.
If the person denies it happened or aruges it was ok and "within the rules" well 1 star and instant ignore list.
This is why the newer iTrials will be less popular, Sure some will be run if they are quick enough, but the Level 56 AVs + way too many ways to grief it = will lose popularity once the shiny wears off and all of the good players have the Mo badges and have less incentive to run them.
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Originally Posted by Combat
I was just leading a TPN on Freedom. I explained, many many times, NO AoES, NO DMG AURAS, NO PETS.
We got to the stage where Maelstrom is outside, and someone decided that Ion judgement is a single target attack. If he'd have had tier 4, we'd have instant wiped. As it was, he took us from around 150 public opinion to 30 in one move. I usually don't have many bad PuG stories, but this one was so special I though I should share. What do you think about using Ion on civilians? Was he farming them? He chose the right judgement then. Though maybe he could have gotten more if he had using Pryonic or Vorpal or Void, as the chain may have ended prematurely. I propose that any player that kills 30 or more civilians should get a badge. "Griefer" - You are the best at griefing. You griefed an entire incarnate trial into failure. "Griefer" would give an accolade that stops the use of the team-up teleporter. Either that, or make a very special badge called "Idiot", displayed in size 70 font, that cannot be unequipped. Though I guess badgers would still try and get it, so that may actually be a horrible idea. |
H: Blaster 50, Defender 50, Tank 50, Scrapper 50, Controller 50, PB 50, WS 50
V: Brute 50, Corruptor 50, MM 50, Dominator 50, Stalker 50, AW 50, AS 50
Top 4: Controller, Brute, Scrapper, Corruptor
Bottom 4: (Peacebringer) way below everything else, Mastermind, Dominator, Blaster
CoH in WQHD
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Yet most of the leaders I have run this trial with on Freedom have this restriction for both the TPN and MOM. I will say that one leader did lead well and put the AOE focused people inside on the TPN, but that was the one exception.
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Originally Posted by UberGuy
That's a needless self restriction. All you need to to is point out to the leader that you shouldn't be devoted to fighting Seers, assuming your league assigns anyone to that. (Many do not.) The notion that AoE-centric characters are no good in the entire trial is mistaken.
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The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
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You forget. I'm a realist by nature, for all that the bright and shiny people like to label it "pessimism" instead. |
Originally Posted by UberGuy
That's a needless self restriction. All you need to to is point out to the leader that you shouldn't be devoted to fighting Seers, assuming your league assigns anyone to that. (Many do not.) The notion that AoE-centric characters are no good in the entire trial is mistaken.
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Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
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I agree.|
Originally Posted by Nalrok_AthZim
I have to stand with the "make the other poor ******* die for his country" group. They already sent War Walkers to try and wipe out our cities; why should we play nice? You mess with the bull, you get the horns. Or in our case, you mess with the superpowered community, you get two thousand megatons of raw power to the face.
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Given that it's entirely possible to have a very large number of Villains on any iTrial, given their coop nature, why would somebody who's made it to the top by stomping on any obstacle even bother trying to protect some Joe Soap who's entire civilisation seems hell bent on destroying his? Any villain worth their salt would leave civilian guts adorning not just the sidewalk but the cameras, presenters and corpses of dead Telepathists with a note saying: "If I EVER see Cole around here I will return and visit the most unholy of genocides on all your people!"
Clearly this is a game and we're not making comparative moral choices - for example I have huge issues with vigilantes in the Real World - but it makes no sense for the bad guys on our side to adhere to some ambiguous moral code for the sake of the story. It's inconsistent and ridiculous.
If it was like the Cathedral of Pain, and there for limited to Heroes only, fine, not a problem (as has been noted by esteemed colleagues here, I have other issues with the TPN as well so yes, there are problems) but why is it not sensible for a villain to take care of the problem with a nuke? "Took care of the problem boys, let's go kick ****!"
Thelonious Monk
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I've been on a number of villain-side CoPs. They play exactly the same as hero-side CoPs.|
Originally Posted by Scarlet Shocker
If it was like the Cathedral of Pain, and there for limited to Heroes only
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Originally Posted by GuyPerfect
Hey Matt, you seeing this? It's about you.
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Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
Had another similar encounter today. Was running a MoKeyes. Leader asks if any has incandesence, so that they could tp us out of obliteration beam.
First beam in, and someone had used it to teleport the entire league INTO obliteration beam, failing two badges.
TW/Elec Optimization
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Ion Judgement Critical!
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Originally Posted by Combat
I was just leading a TPN on Freedom. I explained, many many times, NO AoES, NO DMG AURAS, NO PETS.
We got to the stage where Maelstrom is outside, and someone decided that Ion judgement is a single target attack. If he'd have had tier 4, we'd have instant wiped. As it was, he took us from around 150 public opinion to 30 in one move. I usually don't have many bad PuG stories, but this one was so special I though I should share. What do you think about using Ion on civilians? Was he farming them? He chose the right judgement then. Though maybe he could have gotten more if he had using Pryonic or Vorpal or Void, as the chain may have ended prematurely. I propose that any player that kills 30 or more civilians should get a badge. "Griefer" - You are the best at griefing. You griefed an entire incarnate trial into failure. "Griefer" would give an accolade that stops the use of the team-up teleporter. Either that, or make a very special badge called "Idiot", displayed in size 70 font, that cannot be unequipped. Though I guess badgers would still try and get it, so that may actually be a horrible idea. |
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Originally Posted by Snow Globe
I've been on a number of villain-side CoPs. They play exactly the same as hero-side CoPs.
While the buck (mostly) stops at Matt's desk, the two most directly to blame are Baryonyx and Arbiter Hawk. |
You've missed my point I think. The fact that Villains coop on missions shouldn't neuter their own evil morality is what I was trying to get across.
I agree CoP is generic but I was trying to get across that it's morality specific.
Thelonious Monk
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Sadly, by stopping reading here we reach a well-worn sterotype about one of our most populous servers.|
Originally Posted by Darth_Khasei
Yet most of the leaders I have run this trial with on Freedom...
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People demand things I think are dumb when they lead trials all the time. Personally, I carefully ignore them whenever possible. As in, as long as I am sure I am not going to cause the problem that person is trying to avoid, I do what they said not to do anyway, when it is actually helpful to do so. (I don't do it just to be contrary.)
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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Lol oh you. This guy also dragged both AVs down too at the same time. We only had one non-squishy, which was me. |
Originally Posted by SolarSentai
You mean, you're not supposed to do that?
... oops :-D |
Anyways on the topic of TPN, I don't see what this whole "Well I don't really play with the chat window up" thing is about. That's pretty ridiculous, no offense to anyone who does it. Unless you're absolutely a master at the league, always follow instructions. In fact you probably should anyways.
http://www.virtueverse.net/wiki/Shadow_Mokadara
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Originally Posted by ShadowMoka
Lol oh you. This guy also dragged both AVs down too at the same time. We only had one non-squishy, which was me.
Anyways on the topic of TPN, I don't see what this whole "Well I don't really play with the chat window up" thing is about. That's pretty ridiculous, no offense to anyone who does it. Unless you're absolutely a master at the league, always follow instructions. In fact you probably should anyways. |
I mostly agree with the proviso that if you absolutely have to follow instructions to succeed, then it's not your attention span that's faulty, it's the game
Thelonious Monk
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More complex tasks need instructions.
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Originally Posted by Scarlet Shocker
I mostly agree with the proviso that if you absolutely have to follow instructions to succeed, then it's not your attention span that's faulty, it's the game
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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That was one of your most stupid throwaway lines ever. Seriously.|
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
More complex tasks need instructions.
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I'm playing a game, that I have played for almost six years. I'm not trying to learn to pilot an alien space ship from scratch. I have spent a long time learning to play. I don't want to suddenly learn a new mechanic to stroke some Dev's ego.
The degrees of complexity multiply with the number of people having to learn the instructions. If the fact that it's too difficult to get a large group of people to work the mechanic together then it's not me. It's not the player next to me, and it's not my team leader. It's the mechanics of the trial.
Thelonious Monk
If the game tells you that you can't attack the civilians if you want to succeed with this task, but then players attack the civilians and the task fails, then that's not the fault of the game.
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
... oops :-D
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