Stalkers and Invulnerabilty?
By
Aneurysmo,
Posted on: 2011-12-26 24:20 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
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I think Invincibility will likely need to be changed to a constant buff rather than a scaling buff if they keep to past scaling powers for Stalkers (WP and EA).|
Originally Posted by TeutonicRogue
Hello fellow forumites!
As the title suggests, this post is about the Invulnerability secondary for the Stalker AT. I'd initially considered posting it in the Stalker forum, though I figure more people who've had experience with the set will see it here. That out of the way; the devs have stated, in regards to proliferation, that they will eventually proliferate every set that make sense. Is this such a set? Would Invuln. work well on Stalkers? If so, what would need to be changed? Just drop Tough Hide for Hide and call it a day? Or would more drastic changes be in order, here? Personally, I would love to see it ported over sooner than later but, I'm curious what others think on the matter. Regards, TR |
Tough Hide seems like the obvious choice to go with replacing for Hide, as Hide will replace the defense aspect of Tough Hide.
Though I wouldn't be suprised if it was Resist Energies, if they want to help keep the set more focused on not being hit, which tends to favor the Stalker playstyle for many.
If they really want to keep it awesome for Stalkers, I'd keep Tough Hide, replace Resist Energy for Hide, and rename Resist Physical Damage to Resist Damage and have it resist all that Resist Physical Damage and Resist Energy Damage can.
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
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Originally Posted by BrandX
I think Invincibility will likely need to be changed to a constant buff rather than a scaling buff if they keep to past scaling powers for Stalkers (WP and EA).
Tough Hide seems like the obvious choice to go with replacing for Hide, as Hide will replace the defense aspect of Tough Hide. Though I wouldn't be suprised if it was Resist Energies, if they want to help keep the set more focused on not being hit, which tends to favor the Stalker playstyle for many. If they really want to keep it awesome for Stalkers, I'd keep Tough Hide, replace Resist Energy for Hide, and rename Resist Physical Damage to Resist Damage and have it resist all that Resist Physical Damage and Resist Energy Damage can. |
Honestly, no, I don't want them to chuck ANY of the resists.
If a power has to be moded, let it be Invincibility. It'd have to be changed anyhow with the aggro aura it puts out. Let Invinc be modded into the stealth power. Provides a big boost to defense when hidden and a smaller boost when out of hide.
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That's almost certainly how they would do it. Invincibility goes for Hide and more defense is added somewhere else to compensate. Done.
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Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
Honestly, no, I don't want them to chuck ANY of the resists.
If a power has to be moded, let it be Invincibility. It'd have to be changed anyhow with the aggro aura it puts out. Let Invinc be modded into the stealth power. Provides a big boost to defense when hidden and a smaller boost when out of hide. |
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
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I see you didn't quite read what BrandX said. No resists would be chucked, just Resist Physical Damage and Resist Energies rolled into 1 power then add Hide.|
Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
Honestly, no, I don't want them to chuck ANY of the resists.
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Originally Posted by EvilGeko
That's almost certainly how they would do it. Invincibility goes for Hide and more defense is added somewhere else to compensate. Done.
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The main utility power in Invulnerability, IMO, is Tough Hide. That most likely would be dropped to make room for Hide. Invincibility may be replaced with a new toggle, balanced for Stalkers for the lack of using a scaling +def/+ToHit power as well as the +def/+def debuff passive that was dropped. And in all honesty, you don't need a +def toggle and a +def passive that protects against the exact same stuff in the same set. It'd a redundancy that is the ripe for replacement.
The could go the extra mile and replace Unstoppable with some other power, like a short duration moderate resist (slottable to 75% cap) with regen and recovery buffs rolled into it...crashless of course...
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Why would you want this trash on a stalker? This set has not been good on scrappers since issue 2 when you could go perma-unstoppable and it has not been great on tanks since issue 4. So why would you want this? True enough you could work magic with IOs but you should not need IOs just so its workable.
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Originally Posted by TeutonicRogue
Hello fellow forumites!
As the title suggests, this post is about the Invulnerability secondary for the Stalker AT. I'd initially considered posting it in the Stalker forum, though I figure more people who've had experience with the set will see it here. That out of the way; the devs have stated, in regards to proliferation, that they will eventually proliferate every set that make sense. Is this such a set? Would Invuln. work well on Stalkers? If so, what would need to be changed? Just drop Tough Hide for Hide and call it a day? Or would more drastic changes be in order, here? Personally, I would love to see it ported over sooner than later but, I'm curious what others think on the matter. Regards, TR |
Bump and Grind Bane/SoA
Kenja No Ishi Earth/Empathy Controller
Legendary Sannin Ninja/Pain Mastermind
Entoxicated Ninja/PSN Mastermind
Ninja Ryukenden Kat/WP Scrapper
Hellish Thoughts Fire/PSI Dominator
Thank You Devs for Merits!!!!
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hmmm...honestly...I have no idea what you're talking about.|
Originally Posted by EvilRyu
Why would you want this trash on a stalker? This set has not been good on scrappers since issue 2 when you could go perma-unstoppable and it has not been great on tanks since issue 4. So why would you want this? True enough you could work magic with IOs but you should not need IOs just so its workable.
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Going purely by SOs, Id consider most of the sets pretty even.
Have you tried SD with SOs? Burn through END, not enough defense, no self heal.
So counting IOs, INV is perfectly fine.
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
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Whatever we will have to agree to disagree on alot of powersets. Just the other day in game players were talking about how invul is no where near as good as it used to be and how much better willpower is for scrappers and tanks. So I know I am not the only one who feels this way.
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Originally Posted by BrandX
hmmm...honestly...I have no idea what you're talking about.
Going purely by SOs, Id consider most of the sets pretty even. Have you tried SD with SOs? Burn through END, not enough defense, no self heal. So counting IOs, INV is perfectly fine. |
Bump and Grind Bane/SoA
Kenja No Ishi Earth/Empathy Controller
Legendary Sannin Ninja/Pain Mastermind
Entoxicated Ninja/PSN Mastermind
Ninja Ryukenden Kat/WP Scrapper
Hellish Thoughts Fire/PSI Dominator
Thank You Devs for Merits!!!!
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All taunt auras are modified or removed from a set. The issue with removing Tough Hide is that Stalkers in general never lose +defense in a set. Tough Hide IS a mainline defensive power. Tough Hide provides more mitigation than all three of the passive resists combined. |
Originally Posted by Leo_G
That's not quite how it works though. Hide replaces a utility power, not a mainline defensive power, same with the misconception that 'you lose an attack to get Placate' when what is exchanged is Confront, not an attack.
The main utility power in Invulnerability, IMO, is Tough Hide. That most likely would be dropped to make room for Hide. Invincibility may be replaced with a new toggle, balanced for Stalkers for the lack of using a scaling +def/+ToHit power as well as the +def/+def debuff passive that was dropped. And in all honesty, you don't need a +def toggle and a +def passive that protects against the exact same stuff in the same set. It'd a redundancy that is the ripe for replacement. The could go the extra mile and replace Unstoppable with some other power, like a short duration moderate resist (slottable to 75% cap) with regen and recovery buffs rolled into it...crashless of course... |
Since Invincibility would have to go in any event, that's a perfect place to put a more general +defense power. Even if that were not Hide, the devs would more likely combine a couple of the passive resists instead of removing Tough Hide. Because however redundant it is to have two +defense powers that protect against the same things (I question that logic since that's the entire structure of SR) it is much more redundant to have THREE passives resists which do the same thing as TWO toggles.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
Going from the new stalker EA, the taunt would be removed and invicibilty would be changed to a straight +def power. I would like to be typed to all but psi with a constant value equal to 3-5 mobs in invicibilty.
I agree with the idea of combining the passives, but I'd like to keep the end and slow resists more than the actual resists.
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Invlun is actually pretty awesome since its last set of buffs.
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Originally Posted by EvilRyu
Why would you want this trash on a stalker? This set has not been good on scrappers since issue 2 when you could go perma-unstoppable and it has not been great on tanks since issue 4. So why would you want this? True enough you could work magic with IOs but you should not need IOs just so its workable.
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When something good happens to me, I can never enjoy it....
I am always too busy looking for the inevitable punchline...
BEHOLD THE POWER OF CHEESE!
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Originally Posted by EvilRyu
Why would you want this trash on a stalker? This set has not been good on scrappers since issue 2 when you could go perma-unstoppable and it has not been great on tanks since issue 4. So why would you want this? True enough you could work magic with IOs but you should not need IOs just so its workable.
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Sorry, what game are you playing? Or maybe you are getting confused with Dark armour or Energy Aura?
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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/Inv is a great set, top-tier for survivability. Whatever it was six years ago is irrelevant. Moreover, even if you disagree with why people might want it, the apparent popularity of Invulnerability builds both on the forums and in-game says that people clearly do want it.
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Originally Posted by EvilRyu
Why would you want this trash on a stalker?
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Don't forget that Invincibility also grants +To Hit. This will also have to be put some where with a stalker port.
Your character does not have capped defense. Depending on your AT the cap is between 175% - 225%. Your defense is not teal in the combat window, it can go higher. STOP SAYING IT IS CAPPED! The correct term is Soft Cap.
I enjoy playing in Mids. I specialize in Melee Characters, other AT's usually bore me.
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Hmm... I have a Katana/Invulnerability scrapper that worked just fine when I was leveling it and now that it's IOed out I have to pretty much try to die for that to happen. That particular toon has more mitigation than a lot of the tanks I've run TFs with and does more damage as well. I've had my dif at +4/x8 since hitting 50 with no serious issues at all whether I'm on a team or playing solo (if teamed with friends, I can be talked into turning it down so the squishies don't endlessly faceplant) so I'm not really sure where you're getting this information from. Keep in mind that this is a scrapper, not a tank so stalkers would get the same base numbers to work with. I have no doubt they could be every bit as awesome if not more so.
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Originally Posted by EvilRyu
Why would you want this trash on a stalker? This set has not been good on scrappers since issue 2 when you could go perma-unstoppable and it has not been great on tanks since issue 4. So why would you want this? True enough you could work magic with IOs but you should not need IOs just so its workable.
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So you all are saying there are alot of people doing it wrong then? Seriously I see more invuls die in combat than any other set for non-tanks. And on tanks fire might die before invul but unless unstoppable is used they die pretty quick. To be honest I hate the set now because it requires too much investment to be any where decent. But if players want to die alot then I guess thats their choice.
Bump and Grind Bane/SoA
Kenja No Ishi Earth/Empathy Controller
Legendary Sannin Ninja/Pain Mastermind
Entoxicated Ninja/PSN Mastermind
Ninja Ryukenden Kat/WP Scrapper
Hellish Thoughts Fire/PSI Dominator
Thank You Devs for Merits!!!!
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Is this a trick question? Of course there's a lot of people doing it wrong. This is a MMORPG, not a Mensa summit.
| So you all are saying there are alot of people doing it wrong then? |
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lol, awesome argument. A set is NO good at all..because it isnt the same as when you could get perma unstop? Yeah..that makes sense.
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Originally Posted by EvilRyu
Whatever we will have to agree to disagree on alot of powersets. Just the other day in game players were talking about how invul is no where near as good as it used to be and how much better willpower is for scrappers and tanks. So I know I am not the only one who feels this way.
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You're giving Mensa too much credit... </Mensa member>
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Originally Posted by Nihilii
Is this a trick question? Of course there's a lot of people doing it wrong. This is a MMORPG, not a Mensa summit.
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The game ends at 50.
SmilegasmDo not ever give Mind Control a pet.
We need more control sets without pets.My characters are not "toons".
They are all project characters, though.Global chat @Lxndr My servers: Defiant, Liberty, Pinnacle, Virtue
Just a few things, here...
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Originally Posted by EvilRyu
So you all are saying there are alot of people doing it wrong then? Seriously I see more invuls die in combat than any other set for non-tanks. And on tanks fire might die before invul but unless unstoppable is used they die pretty quick. To be honest I hate the set now because it requires too much investment to be any where decent. But if players want to die alot then I guess thats their choice.
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I'm not quite sure what you mean with 'investment', honestly. My DB/Invuln Scrapper doesn't have a single Purple in her build, much less one of the sought after PVPIOs; what she has is frugal slotting and the Cardiac Alpha.
She's Res. capped to S/L and a small purple puts her above the softcap to S/L/E/N.
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Originally Posted by EvilRyu
Whatever we will have to agree to disagree on alot of powersets. Just the other day in game players were talking about how invul is no where near as good as it used to be and how much better willpower is for scrappers and tanks. So I know I am not the only one who feels this way.
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And this is just funny. I've heard those arguments in some global channels I'm in as well. It's funny because, although my scrappy has the Rebirth destiny? The only time she really uses it, is when some /WP scrappers stand toe to toe against Rommie or Marauder with her, and she's being nice enough to make sure they don't faceplant.
Now, if you don't like the set, fine. There's plenty of sets I'd never play, too. But claiming /Invuln is trash just tells me you have no clue what you're talking about.
TR
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To answer your question, yes. The build I use on my katana/invulnerability scrapper has no purple IOs and no PvP IOs. In fact, I got almost all of the IOs in that character's build by playing that character and earning merits to buy the ones that I didn't think it was econimical to pay influence for and it's resistance capped against S/L damage, as well as being softcapped against S/L just when it's standing still. When in the middle of a mob with invincibility saturated, it's softcapped against everything except psi. It's also got dull pain so close to perma that it may as well be. It has better damage mitigation than some tanks and does more damage as well. Willpower, which you claim is a better set, takes just as much of an investment if not more so, has lesser damage mitigation, and still suffers from not being able to handle spike damage nearly as well, so once again, you are doing it wrong. If you prefer other sets over invulnerability then that's your choice and is a matter of personal preference but, to say that the one this thread is about is trash simply because you can't perma unstoppable is just laughable.
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Originally Posted by EvilRyu
So you all are saying there are alot of people doing it wrong then? Seriously I see more invuls die in combat than any other set for non-tanks. And on tanks fire might die before invul but unless unstoppable is used they die pretty quick. To be honest I hate the set now because it requires too much investment to be any where decent. But if players want to die alot then I guess thats their choice.
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roflmao!!!!
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Originally Posted by nihilii
is this a trick question? Of course there's a lot of people doing it wrong. This is a mmorpg, not a mensa summit.
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I don't suffer from altitis, I enjoy every minute of it.
Thank you Devs & Community people for a great game.
So sad to be ending ):
Waaay back in the day, back when CoV first came out, before a lot of Invulnerability buffs, and Stalker buffs, and when Brutes version of Invulnerability was black and brownish, people were curious why Stalkers didn't have it, too. I made this little graphic to explain why they probably didn't:
Invulnerability Stalkers out of combat:
Invulnerability Stalkers in combat:
It's less relevant these days, though. >_>
"Invulnerability Stalker" sounds like an oxymoron...
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I wondered how long it would take for this argument to pop up.|
Originally Posted by Clave_Dark_5
"Invulnerability Stalker" sounds like an oxymoron...
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Why does an invulnerable stalker make any less sense than a regenerating stalker? Or an electric stalker? Why can someone with tough skin not learn how to Hide?
Here's a better way to deal with this problem: if the power set doesn't make sense to you, don't play it.
Hello fellow forumites!
As the title suggests, this post is about the Invulnerability secondary for the Stalker AT. I'd initially considered posting it in the Stalker forum, though I figure more people who've had experience with the set will see it here.
That out of the way; the devs have stated, in regards to proliferation, that they will eventually proliferate every set that make sense. Is this such a set?
Would Invuln. work well on Stalkers? If so, what would need to be changed?
Just drop Tough Hide for Hide and call it a day? Or would more drastic changes be in order, here?
Personally, I would love to see it ported over sooner than later but, I'm curious what others think on the matter.
Regards,
TR