Street Justice and the lameness of Martial Arts

And let's throw in Superstrength in there while we're at it. Now here's the thing. I LOVE Street Justice, when I resubbed and got my free points, I picked it up tout suite. The problem lies in how ugly and lame both SS and MA look, animation wise, comparatively.

So, for those who are not likely going to read this I'm going to lay out some wishful thinking on my part, and hope others have suggestions, and/or constructive criticism. Bear in mind this is animations only, I'm not going to debate the various power levels between them, cuz I don't care.

I'm also probably be rambling as I'm laying out my thoughts from brain to forum post.

So, Brass Tacks:

First off, the momentum mechanic is not exactly new (Dual Weapons did it first with it's little bonuses after a combo) but it's something that should be evaluated for all power sets. It's a cool feeling to see your powers having a little boost, appropriate to it's effect. I don't know much else, but this should definitely be look at.

Moving on, second. Animations. Street Justice has several moves that fit in MA and SS, not to mention have multiple action animations. The basic combo starter you get is a two punch set. Personally, I think that SS and definitely MA should get multiple animations for certain moves.

MA's Cobra Strike would be best served by a two hit strike, maybe a 'pressure point' animation?

SS's Knock Out Blow would look cool with a short stomach jab, crouch then slam into an uppercut.

MA's Eagle Claw needs to be redone, period, neither the jump kick nor the 'face smasher' is all that impressive. Maybe a two or three hit combo, like stomach side kick to a head punch?

Crippling Axe Kick should be a double, spinning jump kick, with the second kick a slamming down strike as an option.

Crane Kick should have a Spinning Back Thrust Kick. Spin around once, and let loose with a leg strike.

In general, for Martial Arts, should have something more Karate and/or Kung-Fu in animations choices.

As for Super Strength, maybe go the WWE/TNA/Etc. Wresting route. Big wind up punches, stomach kicks, big knees, spinning clothes lines for knockdowns.

Also, for Animation considerations, anything that has multiple strikes either hits, or misses, on it's first strike. In other word, if Eagle's Claw does 124 points of damage, it does 124 no matter how many animations it does to get it.

My two pence. Comment as you please, just be positive, is all I ask.

I do agree Street Justice is just flat out awesome..but it doesnt totally make ss and ma suddenly crap. Of course, when you view them together, yes, the others look a bit old and dated..but you can say that about almost any 'older' set, when compared to a newer one.

I still love KO blow, both animations, and footstomp. A few of the punches are..samey..but there isnt a lot to do with single punches. Likewise with MA..eagles claw still is the best way to crit kill a boss..boot to the face! Dragons tail is sexy, and some of the alt punches too. The worst was/is the kick fro Crippling Axe, that looks like you break your own leg in 5 spots using it.

Also..StJ does not make a difference to the actual performance of either set. Both are good, and can be great.

Alternate and updated animations for all sets would be grand..but not very realistic. New sets are always (mostly) going to look cooler.

To me, Mr. D, it does. But they've always looked a little lame.

The Dev's have mentioned in UStream that they would love to redo older sets like MA, with newer animations and tech. However it is highly unlikely that it will happen for resource reasons.

Street Justice is everything Martial Arts should have been. MA is dead to me.

(<|>__<|>) DEAD TO ME



I still like Super Strength though. It has a very unrefined, raw damage feel to it that I enjoy for a couple of my characters. You aren't some super disciplined warrior who has spent years training your art and learning the ins and outs of how to make the human body a perfect weapon. No, not you. You're just some ridiculously strong guy who happens to punch REALLY FRIGGIN' HARD and occasionally fly off the handle and turn everyone into paste. I like that.

I find MA one of the prettiest sets animation wise. SS is meh except for KO Blow and Footstomp, but anyway, imo they did a terribad job on StJ's sounds.

Is it just me... or is there no good judo/karate chops in any of the sets??

Personally, I still like Martial Arts. It's not a heavy-hitting set, nor is it a fast puncy set, but it's not supposed to. It's not real martial arts, it's the kind of made-up fancy Hong Kong kung fu movie martial arts with the impossible spin kicks and sweep kicks and "touch of death" techniques and suchforth. It's the "flying ninja movie" martial arts, essentially. In this regard, it does very well.

Now, of course, power customization is one thin, and I always welcome more of it, but Martial Arts already has alternate animations. Getting EVEN MOAR alternate animations for it is highly unlikely, an I don't think it's needed, personally. Martial Arts is still just as good at the concept it did best. My martial arts flying robot from space wouldn't look right with anything else, and my old kung fu master was made for this. Literally, that's why I made him. Martial Arts just no longer needs to stand in for as many of the things it's not as good at, however. It no longer has to stand for basic brawling or MMA or Batman-style fisticuffs. And that's a good thing - let the set excel at what it does best, and it still does quite a few things best of all.

If anything, Martial Arts can do with a bit of a visual effects tuneup. The Disco Ball legs are interesting as an idea, but I'd like to see it get more of a sense of impact, and more of a sense of speed. I like the Street Justice and Titan Weapons "clouds" that describe the attack's motion and reinforce its strength, personally, and Martial Arts can do with a bit more of that. I'd love to have new hit effects for it, too. The current ones we have for it are very high-pitched and sound almost more like gunshots than actual hits. There are things to do to help Martial Arts, but brand new animations from a different set ain't one of 'em.

As for Super Strength... Well, that set has problems, as far as I'm concerned, and its problems are it borrows a few too many attacks. Jab works, but Punch is just Head Splitter without the sword and Haymaker is Air Superiority #1252. That's not a bad thing, mind you, if the animations fit, but Punch just looks goofy and Haymaker's effect is a bit light for what it is. Knockout Blow REALLY bugs me just because I hate the Popeye windup punch goofiness, but the alternate animation works well enough. It doesn't work with fat arms, but I only have one character whose arms are that fat. Hand Clap is just goofy, but that's a comic book staple so not much to do about it, though I'm sure we can come up with something else for it to represent. And Foot Stomp and Ground Punch are some of my favourite attacks in this game. That's awesome.

I really don't think we need to mess with old sets, because new sets aren't always better. For instance, despite what Titan Weapons represents, I still feel there's more than enough room in this game for Broadsword to still be relevant. Hell, I'm still going to push for more large broadswords because that's just what I like. In much the same way, Martial Arts and Super Strength still have a place in this game even with Street Justice around. Street Justice is not "better," it's just different, for different concepts. Martial Arts and Super Strength don't need to be turned into Street Justice 2 and Street Justice 3, because the game would lose more for that than it gains.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

They said spend almost same time and resources doing new alt animations for existing powersets than creating brand new powersets that can be sold.
Maybe they should work on alternate versions or the old powersets or alternate animations and sell them in the Paragon market.
Only viable way to get new skins for existing powersets, they are not going to do it for free, need to get resources back, so...

That's pretty much Sam's (and mines) entire posting history, Leo.

I've suggested alternate animations for MA before as well. I think that combining some of Kinetic Melee and Street Justice's animations as alternate animations would look awesome. The first couple of KM powers are palm strikes that could take the place of a couple of the lamer kicks.

funny thing is I only feel SJ is superior to MA and SS for one AT and that is stalker where the set just feels like it was done right compared to many other stalker conversions of powers.

I infact think a SJ/ninjitsu stalker was exactly what they where mainly focussing on when they designed the set.

my old MA/shield scrapper I cant see as at all inferior to some of the new SJ/shields ive worked with, infact the only one of my melee characters using the old sets that does feel abit obsolete is my MA/ninja stalker, but my SS brute and my brothers SS tank both feel far to mighty to even begin thinking about recreating them as SJs for some small flavor change.

Sorry op but I think your just abit to in the thrall of FOTM new and shiny still. 2 or 3 years from now SJ will be just another melee set unless they do go with the its a pay for power set so it should be better style, we can only wait and see.

I personally just want to see alt animations for MA which reflect different kinds of Martial Arts, (Kung Fu, Karate, Musangwe, Capoeira, etc.)

I know it would likely create a little extra work without the payoff (or not as much as one), but I think it'd be nice, great, awesome if they'd just take the animations of all three sets and make them alternate animations for the others.

Personally, I'd love to combine MA and StJ animations!

I'd much rather have Eagle's Claw animation instead of Crushing Uppercut's animation.

It's be a bit faster on StJ, so they'd have to shave some time off EC for StJ, but that would be love!

StJ and MA have been shown to be pretty equal in terms of ST DPS, not sure where they stand on AOE DPS, but I think even with shared animations between them, people will flock to one set or the other purely on the mechanical grounds (some people just won't care for StJ's combo system).

Also I'd like to get Storm Kick's animation on my StJ user.

Storm Kick, Rib Cracker, Spinning Strike, Eagle's Claw...that to me would make for one of the best hand to hand fighters in CoH animation wise. I know, it's all personal opinion, but still!

I'd even pay a little extra for it if needed. And I hate to suggest that for animations they already have, but seeing as how trimming of animation times and adding a bit for others would have to be done, and they'd likely want to see a bit of added return for it to make it worth their time now, Id do it!

I want the old storm kick back.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BvZFM6WGFI

Also, for all the melee powersets, they should remove the activation time animation, like they did with the newest powersets, to have better fluid movements.
I hate thunderstrike animation, for example. Its just plain old, boring...
I hope old sets would get a hand of painting.
Even if we have to pay to get the updated look for them,

Oh God, Thunder Kick, what a dumb looking strike... That needs an option to change it's animation...

I think that all the sets should have alternate animations available as long as they are similar in time to the power that they are alternates for.