Sonic Resonance needs love too!
By
Auroxis,
Posted on: 2011-12-17 08:06 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
I don't think Sonic Resonance needs better shielding, but being more diversified like other sets, which I think we all can agree on is a must.
Thermal I consider superior at debuffing than Sonic Resonance because of this diversified approach. Sonic Resonance excels at -Res, but that is all it is capable of to do so consistently.
As for HP+ buffs, I do not think that makes a difference if they don't bump up HPs for Stalkers as an example.
Here's what I'd change:
Sonic Siphon - I like it the way it is, but I always though this power should stun the target. So I'd say, add a mag 3 stun to it and increase its recharge if needed be.
Sonic Repulsion - I'd remove this power. Or make it a Location AoE with chance of stun. Pretty much like Electric's Static Field.
Liquefy - Decrease it's recharge (quite a bit) would make me happy enough.
New power suggestions:
Ode to the Fallen: Click dead team mate. PbAoE Team +Res(all), +Dmg, +ToHit (pretty much like Vengeance)
Cheer Infusion: Single Target Ally, +Recharge, +Damage
Battle Cry: Click. Target AoE Terrorize, -ToHit
or
Battle Cry: Click. PbAoe Team +Dmg, +Recovery
Keep in mind I'm not suggesting to add all these powers. These are alternatives to, say, Sonic Cage or Sonic Repulsion. Or even a new Tier 9, dropping Liquefy to L26 (a tweaked version).
I also understand that my suggestions might not fit the concept of "Sonic Ressonance" entirely. Those are just some powers I'd like my Sonic to have. Dreams be dreams.
@False Fiction - Virtue / Defiant
Current projects - [Glaciologist - Ill/Cold Troller] [Cloudshaper - Storm/Dark Def] [Harald Wartooth - Elec/Psi Domi]
1. Sonic Repulsion costs way too much endurance. It's an almost useless power but it costs so much endurance that I don't even want to take it.
2. Reduce Liquefy's recharge.
3. Add Psionic resistance to Sonic Barrier (since Sonic Haven offers 4 types and Barrier only offers 3). Even half value of 7.5% is better than nothing.
Do those 3, the set will be decent. I believe I almost delete a lvl 42 Rad/Sonic Corruptor. I hate this combination so much.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
^ This is smart.
^^ But this is just another person suggesting the devs make a set twice as powerful without debuffs. ?????
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Because arguing against ideas is part of how those ideas get refined and revised if the person arguing against them explains why they're opposed to the idea. It's part of how discussions work in the real world. "Agree or say nothing" is just another way of mandating sycophancy. i will always argue against mandatory sycophancy.
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Originally Posted by New Dawn
I don't really see the point in arguing against peoples ideas. If an idea is flawed a Dev would/should see it in a split second. Also in my experience Devs almost always do something slightly different or completely different to what people suggest. I think that's good and when its actually really good I know why they're getting paid to think up these things and I am not.
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Dr. Todt's theme.
i make stuff...
I never have made a toon (past lvl 8 or so) with Sonic Res. as a power set.
It's just so "blah" to me and it's "just an FF clone."
I'm all for some changes cause I really would like to make a toon some day with it!
Leader of The LEGION/Fallen LEGION on the Liberty server!
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That's false logic, but you're free to have it.
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Originally Posted by Schismatrix
Because arguing against ideas is part of how those ideas get refined and revised if the person arguing against them explains why they're opposed to the idea. It's part of how discussions work in the real world. "Agree or say nothing" is just another way of mandating sycophancy. i will always argue against mandatory sycophancy.
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He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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Actually what separates Sonic Resonance from FF is the debuffs. Biggest problem with FF is the lack of debuffs.|
Originally Posted by Energizing_Ion
I never have made a toon (past lvl 8 or so) with Sonic Res. as a power set.
It's just so "blah" to me and it's "just an FF clone." I'm all for some changes cause I really would like to make a toon some day with it! |
Sonic Resonance is more refined than FF because of this, but still needs a diversity of debuffs like Traps, Time, etc bring.
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Yeah, this happens in every MMO. You get some control ability that is only marginally useful in normal play and might be useful against really difficult enemies in high end encounters but is hard-wired by the devs not to do anything in those encounters.|
Originally Posted by Dr Harmony
Regarding Detention Field, the developers need to stop adding in arbitrary immunity to caging when it would actually help. The power is useless in vanilla PvE, let it shine by caging the Healing Nictus in the ITF, properly caging Devouring Earth emanators and so on when someone does actually take it.
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At least it is not really possible to improve resistance much with IOs so sonics always have a point end-game. They fare MUCH better than FF in this regard.
I think only very minor adjustments to the power set are required.
"Hi, my name is Ail. I make people sick."
A partial selection from my 50's on Freedom: Ail = Ice/Traps, Luck = Street Justice/Super Reflexes Stalker, Mist = Bane, Pixy = Trick Arrow/Archery, Pure = Gravity/Energy, Smoke = Fire/Fire Dominator
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I assume by "debuffs" you mean a trade-off for the improvements they receive.|
Originally Posted by Rikti
^ This is smart.
^^ But this is just another person suggesting the devs make a set twice as powerful without debuffs. ????? |
If the set is lagging behind the performance of other sets --which Sonic, Forcefield and Trick Arrow are largely viewed as doing-- I don't think there has to be any trade-off for improvements to powers, because improving the overall power level of the set is the goal.
@Oathbound & @Oathbound Too
As long as Thermal exists as is, Sonic Resonance's PBAoE Shield means nothing to Thermal's AoE and ST Healing. Resistance + Healing > Resistance + Resistance, end of story.
I would love if Sonic Resonance got overhauled to something more Bardic and Song-related. Something a bit more interactive, interchanging and mixing together buffs and debuffs into something that isn't That Resistance Set That Isn't Thermal Radiation.
There's no LOGICAL reason to play Sonic over Thermal right now, period. Only concepts and roleplayers will play Sonic Resonance, in a world where Thermal Radiation exists.
... Heck, even Pain Domination offers more, and it's not even a primary resistance set.
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I play Sonic Resonance because I want mez protection and debuffs, and it's the only set that offers both. I do so with full awareness that I'm giving up performance to get those things. Seems logical enough to me.
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Originally Posted by Reppu
There's no LOGICAL reason to play Sonic over Thermal right now, period. Only concepts and roleplayers will play Sonic Resonance, in a world where Thermal Radiation exists.
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I have a sonic/sonic corruptor that I love but fell by the wayside when I realized sonic/sonic defenders were better. But I didn't want to start a defender because :P I had so much time invested in a corruptor. Anyway, I finally just rolled up a sonic/sonic defender (villain-side, because for better or for worse I seem to know the badges there more.)
Here is my little encounter as a lvl 9 defender today:
http://www.freeimagehosting.net/c3fe8
Ah, it's like old times with my TA/A! 
It makes me laugh. I can't imagine who would want some anemic lvl 9 heal over an equally anemic pair of lvl 9 shields...lolz.
"Hi, my name is Ail. I make people sick."
A partial selection from my 50's on Freedom: Ail = Ice/Traps, Luck = Street Justice/Super Reflexes Stalker, Mist = Bane, Pixy = Trick Arrow/Archery, Pure = Gravity/Energy, Smoke = Fire/Fire Dominator
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Thermal Radiation does the latter, just as well (Trading more -RES for -REG)|
Originally Posted by Supernumiphone
I play Sonic Resonance because I want mez protection and debuffs, and it's the only set that offers both. I do so with full awareness that I'm giving up performance to get those things. Seems logical enough to me.
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Clarion does the former.
I suppose Sonic does allow you to free up your Destiny slot for... Ageless? I guess. Although Clarion is so freaking amazing these days.
Ho hum.
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Except, unlike the intelligent posts in this thread, you suggested we pretty much make the set twice as powerful rather than add slight tweaks.
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Originally Posted by Oathbound
I assume by "debuffs" you mean a trade-off for the improvements they receive.
If the set is lagging behind the performance of other sets --which Sonic, Forcefield and Trick Arrow are largely viewed as doing-- I don't think there has to be any trade-off for improvements to powers, because improving the overall power level of the set is the goal. |
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There is much more to the game than level 50 incarnate play. Being able to have mez protection at a low level is a very valid reason for sonic.
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Originally Posted by Reppu
Thermal Radiation does the latter, just as well (Trading more -RES for -REG)
Clarion does the former. I suppose Sonic does allow you to free up your Destiny slot for... Ageless? I guess. Although Clarion is so freaking amazing these days. Ho hum. |
Change Sonic Repulsion into a +HP buff to the target that ignores the base hitpoint cap. The base would be 250 HP, so an extra 500 HP or so once slotted. It would be renamed to Aural Mitigation or something along those lines. In addition to the HP buff it would also act as a -tohit debuff on enemies surrounding the targeted ally. Minor, of course, but even 5% is nifty.
Alternatively, I wouldn't mind having a 'Defiant Scream' that hits enemies around the caster, is a click debuff instead of a toggle, and both knocks back and has a chance to stun and/or confuse enemies (mag 2) as well as debuff their speed briefly. It would be on a moderate recharge and deal no damage.
Or, Sonic Pony, where you summon a pony that sings and you fly away on its back to have magical adventures in the wonderful world of Who Gives a F......lying pony.
One idea that I liked in the past and one that I think that the Devs are well aware of is adding Psionic Resistance which was first suggested I believe into Clarity.
Aside from that, as one of the oldest Sonic/Sonic Corrupters ingame a -Dam element somewhere could be nice. In dealing with AVs/GMs the -res to them and the +res to team doesn't quite meet too well in the middle to give me a Corrupter that feels as all there as my other corrupters. I have a Fire/Thermal Corrupter to compare against.
Sonic Repulsion is like the dead bird your cat brought in from the garden. You cast it on a friend who normally useless with it, or when all they had to do was stand still and blast, they don't, they run back. You just get a lot of wasted endurance with lack of real bang for buck and theirs a lack of control over where mobs are sprayed to anyway. I know there is always that one power thats skippable but thats a shame, we should be spoilt for choice. Knockback powers can be the answer to many a complaint (if we were all on SO builds) and knockback can be the active mitigation versus Psi mobs.
What I propose is something to try and make that Sonic Repulsion that bird with a happy song. With each pulse of repel there could be a short duration, decent level of -Dam. In PvE against mobs, by the time they got up the -Dam is over but on a AV/GM, because they don't fall over they could be attacking under -Dam conditions. Why shouldn't repel act as a repellent of any force and in doing so limit the level of damage?
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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Do you mean for yourself or others. If it for yourself, then traps is a batter choice. You get a better selection of debuffs with traps.
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Originally Posted by Supernumiphone
I play Sonic Resonance because I want mez protection and debuffs, and it's the only set that offers both. I do so with full awareness that I'm giving up performance to get those things. Seems logical enough to me.
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Dirges
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Yes, but personally, I find FFG doesn't mesh with my playstyle. I am very mobile when playing and the FFG follows so slowly I feel like it's a shackle to stay in range of it. No doubt, Traps is a far superior choice by the numbers for a debuff set with a personal shield and I'm sure I am in the minority, but I just don't like playing the set because of it.
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Originally Posted by Dirges
Do you mean for yourself or others. If it for yourself, then traps is a batter choice. You get a better selection of debuffs with traps.
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Umm... I didn't make ANY suggestions ANYWHERE in this thread AT ALL. In fact that was my ONLY post.|
Originally Posted by Rikti
Except, unlike the intelligent posts in this thread, you suggested we pretty much make the set twice as powerful rather than add slight tweaks.
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Soo, yeah.... Gold Star for you my friend.
@Oathbound & @Oathbound Too
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Sonic Dispersion was ported to Thermal? :P|
Originally Posted by Reppu
There's no LOGICAL reason to play Sonic over Thermal right now, period. Only concepts and roleplayers will play Sonic Resonance, in a world where Thermal Radiation exists.
... Heck, even Pain Domination offers more, and it's not even a primary resistance set. |
Thermal's key debuffs are nice, but they come much later (even much later on Corruptors). Unless you have a concept in mind leveling a Thermal isn't easy 1-30.
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Not any worst then sonic. Sonic has what one debuff and one buff before thirty, and the debuff is just a single target -res. Both sets are going to have to rely on their other set (primary or secondary) to get things done solo. Team-wise, they would both be the same, both are heavy team support sets so they would level about the same.
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Originally Posted by Gemini_2099
Sonic Dispersion was ported to Thermal? :P
Thermal's key debuffs are nice, but they come much later (even much later on Corruptors). Unless you have a concept in mind leveling a Thermal isn't easy 1-30. |
Dirges
These are ideas I had for Sonic in my Big Ol' Spreadsheet of Buff/Debuff Set Numbers & Improvements™:
Sonic Siphon
Add a stackable 3% (for Defenders, 2.25% for all other ATs) +Resistance(All but Psi) buff for the Caster (or maybe in an AoE with an increase in the recharge timer).
This would actually make it a "siphon".
Sonic Barrier
Add 43.3% +Resistance(Regen) (for Defenders, 34.6% for Corrs/Controllers, 26% for MMs)
Add 21.65% +Resistance(DefDebuff) (for Defenders, 17.3% for Corrs/Controllers, 13% for MMs)
Add scale 2 +Protection(Knockback)
The reason for this is because these debuffs/effects are usually associated with these damage types, and can't be avoided (unlike +Def shields). Besides, this adds a bit more "realism" in that if you're not taking the full hit from an attack because of the sonic shields, some of it's effects should be absorbed, as well.
Sonic Haven
Add 43.3% +Resistance(ToHit) (for Defenders, 34.6% on Corrs/Controllers, 26% on MMs)
Add 43.3% +Resistance(Recovery) (for Defenders, 34.6% on Corrs/Controllers, 26% on MMs)
Add 43.3% +Resistance(EndDrain) (for Defenders, 34.6% on Corrs/Controllers, 26% on MMs)
Add 50% +Resistance(Movement Speed) (for all ATs)
Add 50% +Resistance(Recharge Speed) (for all ATs)
Same reasons as above.
Disruption Field
Add -12.5% ToHit Debuff (for Defenders, 10% for Corrs/Controllers, 7.5% for MMs)
Add -12.5% Defense Debuff (for Defenders, 10% for Corrs/Controllers, 7.5% for MMs)
To make this power similar in effectiveness as other buff/debuff toggles and making it worth the end cost.
Liquefy
Reduce recharge timer to 240s
Increase Knockdown chance to 5% every 0.2 seconds
Reduce ToHit debuff to -25% (for Defenders, -20% for Corrs/Controllers, -15% for MMs)
Reduce Defense debuff to -25 (for Defenders, -20% for Corrs/Controllers, -15% for MMs)
Reduce Recharge debuff to -25% (for Defenders/Controllers, -20% for Corrs/MMs)
The problem with Liquefy is that is has incredibly strong effects that keep it on a very long recharge timer. When Liquefy is up, it can turn around the worst situations because it has such high values (even when unslotted). But if Liquefy is down... well, if the rest of Sonic Resonance isn't keeping you alive, then there's nothing you can do.
Keep in mind that with this suggestion, before anyone freaks out about a "nerf"... the ATs will be losing 5-10.7% -ToHit/-Defense once every 2.5-5 minutes from Liquefy in order to gain 7.5-12.5% -ToHit/-Defense much more often in Disruption Field.
So with some of the debuff moved to Disruption Field, you should have to rely on Liquefy less often, but when you do it need, it's up more often, just with less debuff than before (but it's still a decent amount).
Now you did mention the waste of time buffs combined with kin, and that is only one small part the + damage. The recharge is great until you reach the cap, as is the heals combining since kin requires a tohit check. Speaking of tohit check time adds both +tohit and -defense, making it much easier for kin powers to hit. Then it has -tohit, def, regen, slows, and controls, which add more survivability then sonic from my experience. Time also may not add much -regen, but it does have some. I see similar things with everything all the little things add up to beat specialist sets.
Now I am not saying sonic is bad to team with, I just got in this conversation because someone said if sonic was buffed it would be too strong combined with another support set. Which I disagree with, I see sonic, FF, and TA all being able to get buffs without being to strong when teamed with other support sets.
Dirges