Level 53 and weaker than a Hellion

There is too much expectation from the developers that players stay "on the rails" and do each successive trial in order. There is too much expectation from the developers that player skill or desire to run later trials with increased difficulty. There is too much unwillingness from the developers to let players experience the story in a non-linear fashion.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/OffTheRails

Players are starting to go off the rails at this point. Oh, and the rocks, well tvtropes has a page for that too:

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.ph...llEveryoneDies

Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters

THIS, IMHO, is the problem.

I personally get the thrown rock thing. The problem is that you should get it, and everyone should get it. The presentation of the story needs to make it crystal clear.

Even if the reasons behind the thrown rock thing are supposed to be mysterious and linked to future events, the fact that they should be mysterious or whatever needs to be clearly presented.

No matter what the justification, having Superman brought low by a thrown rock will always be jarring and not-epic compared to him fighting Darkseid or Thanos. But the justification should be so clearly presented that a young child who does not play should be able to tell what is going on without prompting.

Not exaggerating.

The rest of the bloody cosmos.

Merging my commentary with another of your earlier posts. We've been fighting the "Kree" since 2002: aka the Rikti. We haven't seen the equivalents of the Skrulls, Shi'ar, Dominators, Khunds, Dormammu, the Red Lantern Corps, or anyone else who might have legitimately higher power levels than us Terran monkeys. We've fought the CoH answer to Hero Games' Tyranon the Conqueror, aka Rularuu, also for years. But when we actually start becoming godlike (any metahuman qualifies as demi-godlike, just ask Romulus), we end up fighting the Dorks From Next Door, aka, Praetoria. And despite being a tiny ground down, post-apocalyptic population, they have infinite troops, and their civilians can kill us. With rocks.

So yes, we would like to feel godlike at this, the halfway point in our incarnate journey. If not Galactus, can we at least meet the vanguard of Darkseid's armada?

But has he ever ambushed you?

You mean the war robots made by other robots, and the soliders who are clones?

The thing is that doesn't explain the increasingly level shifted AVs in the trials, the number of "1 shot, 1 kill" mechanics, the inability to use an awaken in the 2nd phase of the MoM trial (try it sometime), and the general "kill the players before they can react" nature of the trials.

You want players to invest themselves in the story, but many players (not all) are saying "I'm not having much fun with this story." At what point does this become a large enough problem that it needs to be fixed?

Yet there are ways to make an MMORPG story more appealing, and I'm speaking strictly from a mechanics perspective.

Let's take the TPN.

• Why aren't there waypoints (as requested in the beta) for the next building to go to? That is existing tech, no programming or art time needed.
• Why aren't there items outside that delay the seers from showing up?
• Why aren't there items outside that prevent, or at least delay the seers from converting the civilians?
• Why did the developers see fit to break the 1-shot prevention code on numerous levels in the trial?

From a script point of view, the TPN makes sense. From a game point of view, the TPN does not.

But the developers are willing to do so with the Incarnate Trials. Why else threaten the players with decreased rewards for doing the earlier trials? Do you not see the double standard?

Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters

That seems to be a big flipflop right there. I mean the descriptions for IDF commanders mention them being genetically modified, I think some arcs hint them being clones, and the trainer in the First Ward seems to suggest they're fairly normal humans in powered suits.

Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow City of Heroes is a game about freedom of expression and variety of experiences far more so than it is about representing any one theme, topic or genre.

At this stage, I'm of the opinion that 99.9% of the entire population of Praetoria are clones, not just the Olympian Guard. Which then begs the question: why are we being so nice to these people?

If there were that many clones, the Resistance wouldn't exist

I had a Essayon this subject, just hadn't felt like posting it. Today I shall. I call it "Free Will Does Not Exist In Praetoria" One moment...


All right. I was thinking about Praetoria (bad idea, I know), and came up with a theory that fits what we know about the place, and patches over the plot holes littered across the mission map by writers not paying enough attention to the development bible. Simply put, there is no free will in Praetoria.

Zero. None whatsoever.

Now, for some time I've been of the opinion that nothing happens in Praetoria save by Cole's will. Two recent storylines have jelled my theory above. The first was the recent Hamidon invasion event, where we learn that Cole has access vat-grow a pair of clones of Colonel DuRay, and have them instantiated with custom memories to order. The second was after completing the First Ward arc, and noticing that this was the first ever mention of _childhood_ In any Praetoria story-line, and only out here in the "abandoned" part of the nation.

Think about it: in Praetoria proper (Nova, Imperial, and Neutropolis), civilians talk about how happy they are to live and work here, but not how safe it is to raise a family. Hostages express relief that they weren't chomped by ghouls, but never express how they hope that their children grow up to be like their rescuers. In fact, the only _offspring_ we know about are "Special": Penelope Yin (daughter of an immigrant), Diabolique (born while the ultra secret Midnighter's Club was still functioning), Dominatrix (Cole's own granddaughter), Katie Hannon (most likely part of a long term scheme to keep Tillman out of Cole's head). People may talk about "brothers" or "sisters", husbands and wives, but never children or parents.

At this point, I have to conclude that nearly everyone in the city is vat-grown in those countless gold Revenant Project tubes we see in every lab map, programmed for their place in society, and installed for the greater (Cole's) good. If the societal programming breaks down, the Seers find them and send them off to the BAF for reprogramming. If the non-violence controls weaken, they're recruited into the PPD. If both systems fail, then the unhappy citizen is recruited by Cole's most loyal deep-cover minion: Calvin Scott. Stable citizens with psionic potential get sent to the seers, and the real loons that have the potential for true power? That would be you, the player character in Powers Division. And by the time you've had enough personal development to start looking for the curtain behind the man behind the curtain, you get a free trip to Primal Earth (or First Ward). Remember to fight the power, the State needs traitorous enemies to stand against.

The Praetors and their ilk are kept under control by Cole' iron hand, their incessant infighting, their overwhelming psychological issues, and most recently, Cole offering fast-track drinks of Incarnate kool-ade. The Hamidon is as firmly under the thumb of Tyrant s the Going Rogue briefing made it out to be. Sorry veterans of the underground trial, but You Have Been Had. All we actually see is Desdemona picking up an empty Carnie mask and announcing that she feels Vanessa's psychic impressions telling her the Great Truth. Des isn't a psychic, she's a pretty brute force sorceress, and as anyone who has played the red-side alignment and morality missions knows, a fairly gullible one.
And as for the big man himself? Marcus "I will bring order to the multiverse" Cole is dancing his little tyrannical dance on the marionette-strings of the Well of the Furies.

Apologies for spelling & grammar: typed the first draft at work on my phone.

But in this case, there are floating ladies projecting a Kryptonite radiation field while Superman is getting pelted by rocks.

I get that.

A lot of people have posted that they don't get that. It isn't presented dramatically enough for us to go 'oh, that makes sense' nor even clearly enough for people not to be posting about 'how is this happening to me???'

Even though Zwillinger certainly understands the mechanic, he doesn't understand why it is that way from a story standpoint. He's just going on faith.

That's a problem.

There are numerous posts in this very thread talking about how that nifty little "Kryptonite radiation" field is still in effect and the civilian-thrown-rock is doing more damage than the huge robot's plasma rifle.

Please explain how we're supposed to "just get that" in a rationale that would seem reasonable to someone who understands the concept of "a plasma rifle is more dangerous than a rock".

Then while you're at it, explain why these aren't present in earlier encounters - like, for example, when you're tearing through their army. After all, as has been brought up before, if only a handful of their psychics are capable of bringing a entire league of incarnates to something roughly weaker than your average toddler (to be killed by a thrown rock - most toddlers are more durable than that) then what good does it do to have public sentiment on our side?

Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle it has gone from unconscionable to downright appalling that we have no way of measuring our characters' wetness.

Originally Posted by Brillig It's hard to beat the entertainment value of Whackjob Wednesdays.

What's more demoralizing? Death troops shooting bolts of light at you, or the civilians you're supposed to be setting free sneering angrily and resentfully toward you while throwing rocks at your head?

You don't come back from the hospital from being demoralized.

Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle it has gone from unconscionable to downright appalling that we have no way of measuring our characters' wetness.

Originally Posted by Brillig It's hard to beat the entertainment value of Whackjob Wednesdays.

You don't come back from the hospital from being blown to bits either, and yet this game still allows it.

Or, they could just con grey and be easily killed and make you have to pick them out of the target list or else fail for killing even one. People think they're tough because they were deliberately made so. There's no excuse for almost everything you run into in Praetoria being at least level 54.

Edit: Like I said, it would have made a much better arc outside of the Incarnate system. But this inexplicable need that everything has to revolve around Praetoria for the first half of your Incarnate career is, in my opinion, a complete waste of the potential of what the trials could be. Even using the exact same mechanics and a different enemy group that isn't "same old same old" and looks as if they should be more powerful would make it far more palatable.

Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle it has gone from unconscionable to downright appalling that we have no way of measuring our characters' wetness.

Originally Posted by Brillig It's hard to beat the entertainment value of Whackjob Wednesdays.

As someone stated earlier, they probably don't con gray to keep someone from griefing the trial.

Hero Boy: We're almost there, team!

Grief Boy: *Judgments a bunch of gray-conning civilians.* lulz.

Trial Failed!

You can have depression clinically treated.

Clinical depression != demoralized.

But I guess having someone throw rocks at you makes heroes go all emo... I guess they should just add a /wrist emote that gets forced before you fall over.

Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle it has gone from unconscionable to downright appalling that we have no way of measuring our characters' wetness.

Originally Posted by Brillig It's hard to beat the entertainment value of Whackjob Wednesdays.

Speaking from experience... they're very closely related.