For Sale: Exalted (VIP) Server Names (Including HERO!)
By
all_hell,
Posted on: 2011-12-06 13:13 in The Market and Inventions
People arguing about random names on a given server in a computer game being sold for imaginary game money... this thread scores high on entertainment value.
my lil RWZ Challenge vid
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I see what you're saying but we're clearly not talking about the same thing here. In game items that can be sold are not exclusive. Meaning multiple people can get them by various means whether it be a lucky drop or as you mentioned, purchasing through the market.|
Originally Posted by Glowworm_Nexus
The existence of the market establishes that it is OK to sell in-game items for influence. That is what the market is all about. Which is not to say that the devs condone name-selling but the argument that selling in-game leads to selling for real money doesn't stand up. I've been selling since WW opened and never have considered selling anything for real money.
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Hoarding names for the express purpose to sell to people isn't the ingame market at all. And tell me, how does my argument NOT stand up? Where do you think the gold spammers came from? They farm inf or whatever currency each particular MMO deals in and sell it for cash. Heck, there are even people out there who I've seen advertise powerleveling for cash. This is not new. And if you want the perfect example of how an in game market translates into cash sales its called the Paragon Market. Mind you, this is NOT a criticism of the DEVS or anyone affiliated with the creation of CoH. This is their game and they are completely entitled to create a cash for content system such as it is. However what I was trying to say is at some point, someone down the road WILL try hoarding things such as names for cash. There are people out there who are very enterprising and inevitably will try and take advantage of such a situation.
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Learn to read. You quoted my post and then completely misrepresent my position right below it. I don't have a problem with selling names. I was criticizing characterizing it as a 'community service'.
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Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy
You're complaining that he didn't just give them away.
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Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
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Why would I need strong search-fu to find a thread that's a long-standing tradition on a board? The links you posted hint as to why I'd never heard of such a thing before.
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Originally Posted by Aneko
Your SearchFu is weak. <.<
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You said more than that. Don't try to make excuses now.|
Originally Posted by Intrinsic
Why would I need strong search-fu to find a thread that's a long-standing tradition on a board? The links you posted hint as to why I'd never heard of such a thing before.
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Originally Posted by Intrinsic
No such threads exist on Freedom or Pinnacle, the only server forums I visit with any frequency.
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'I don't like the look of it at all,' said the King: 'however, it may kiss my hand if it likes.'
'I'd rather not,' the Cat remarked.
'Don't be impertinent,' said the King, 'and don't look at me like that!' He got behind Alice as he spoke.
'A cat may look at a king,' said Alice.
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I hope you realize that I was responding to relevant quoted text, which I shall quote again:|
Originally Posted by Aneko
You said more than that. Don't try to make excuses now.
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Originally Posted by Demetrios Vasilikos
Dear OP if you truly are a member of the COX community then you should be familiar with the long standing tradition of the thread for each server where people put up names they have let go so others may use them. Although no hard rule exist, for nearly as long as this game has been around its been seen as good form to let go of that which you no longer wish to be known as.
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http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=122414
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=119198
These are long, stickied, active threads that match Demetrios' description. I figure that he had these in mind when he made his post. Freedom and Pinnacle do not have these. It does appear that Pinnacle had one for a while years ago before it was unstickied, possibly due to lack of activity. Moreover, many people posting in that thread weren't just letting names go.
Honestly I don't see this as a point of contention, but you seem to have mistook my meaning as nobody ever made such a post in the history of the forums. That is obviously indefensible. I normally like to keep my posts as brief as possible, and if I did so to the point of introducing ambiguity to my meaning, than I apologize. However, if you think that your links indicate Demetrios assertions apply to Freedom and Pinnacle, well, I disagree.
Wouldn't it be simpler to say "oops, I was wrong, Demetrios was right"?
'I don't like the look of it at all,' said the King: 'however, it may kiss my hand if it likes.'
'I'd rather not,' the Cat remarked.
'Don't be impertinent,' said the King, 'and don't look at me like that!' He got behind Alice as he spoke.
'A cat may look at a king,' said Alice.
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Originally Posted by Ironblade
Learn to read. You quoted my post and then completely misrepresent my position right below it. I don't have a problem with selling names. I was criticizing characterizing it as a 'community service'.
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And I explained why I stood by that. I'm sorry that we don't have the same standards of what is and isn't helpful to the community. Once again, I think that when a player makes sought after in game items available to other players, he or she is helping out the community, whether they are charged or not. Notice that when people make trades on this forum, they say "thanks!" Just because they're expressing appreciation doesn't mean that they got their stuff for free. They paid for it, and still expressed appreciation to the seller anyways, for making the item they wanted available and being willing to trade it to them.
Names are free. Charging for them is opportunism.
'I don't like the look of it at all,' said the King: 'however, it may kiss my hand if it likes.'
'I'd rather not,' the Cat remarked.
'Don't be impertinent,' said the King, 'and don't look at me like that!' He got behind Alice as he spoke.
'A cat may look at a king,' said Alice.
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And that's where we diverge - the matter of a fee.|
Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy
And I explained why I stood by that. I'm sorry that we don't have the same standards of what is and isn't helpful to the community. Once again, I think that when a player makes sought after in game items available to other players, he or she is helping out the community, whether they are charged or not.
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When I'm selling something, I'm transacting business. I'm not being helpful. Of course, then we can get into a grey area - if you're selling something CHEAP, you're being SOMEWHAT helpful. Just not as helpful as when you give something away.
When I offer to earn the healing badges for other peoples supergroups, the first question is how much do I charge. I don't. I do it to be helpful. I don't like that people with solo or small SG's are effectively locked out of getting the medical aux items if they don't play h34lz0rs. THAT is a service to the community. I help them with something that they can't do on their own, and I get ZERO personal gain from it. That's what makes it 'serving' the community. You're putting the community ahead of yourself. Selling something is putting yourself first.
Having said that, as I mentioned earlier, I don't have a problem with the selling aspect. Most of the time, you must put yourself first (in real life or anywhere else) since no one else will. But if you put yourself first ALWAYS, that makes you a small person.
Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
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You did.. *points*|
Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy
Obviously the fact that I managed to get the names was luck. People were bum rushing exalted, I fired up my COH as soon as the server went live to help Anni out since he was at work. He was texting me what names he wanted.
Where did anyone say I sold him the names? I gave them to him as soon as he got home. I don't charge my friends for favors. |
Post #55
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Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy
K, the OP has been playing this game for a long time. He isn't trolling anyone- He's a real life friend of mine, and I actually reserved all of these names for him. I don't think selling names in a video game is any different than selling anything else (ie: enhancements, recipes) for INFLUENCE. You are trading fictitious items for fictitious money. How is there anything wrong with this thread?
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Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy
Well Anni isn't selling anything for real money. He asked me to get these names for him because he wanted to try out the server, and didn't end up playing there. I see nothing wrong with him exchanging something he acquired for influence.
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Dark Energon, Founder of the Freedom Legion SG on Guardian server.
(SG founded on 12-08-'09, Top100: 08-17-'10, Top50: 12-23-'10, Top25: 12-11-'11)
Crab Spider Nephila on Titan Tracker
Weekly events on Guardian: W.A.V.E. & FNFN
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No, you're misreading both posts. He states that he grabbed the names FOR his friend. Also that he doesn't see a problem in selling them. He did NOT say that he sold them *TO* his friend.
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Originally Posted by Dark Energon
You did.. *points*
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Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
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It's "exchanging for influence", not "acquired for influence".
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Originally Posted by Dark Energon
I even highlighted it for you.
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'I don't like the look of it at all,' said the King: 'however, it may kiss my hand if it likes.'
'I'd rather not,' the Cat remarked.
'Don't be impertinent,' said the King, 'and don't look at me like that!' He got behind Alice as he spoke.
'A cat may look at a king,' said Alice.
It's one thing if Anni went on there and maliciously took names he knew others would pay big bucks for. But it seems to me that what he did was pick out the most generic (uncreative), random names for whatever reason and doesn't want them anymore - giving people the chance to pick them up. I'm sure that at the end of the day if no one bids on them he will just drop them because he said he wasn't going to use them after all. I think he's just looking to see if they have any value before he lets them go. (OR MAYBE KEEP THEM FOREVERS!) So what! Who cares? Why would anyone want the name Kim anyways? It's a very boring name.
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Not everyone is discussing the specific case on its own merits. The larger issue is the principle.
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Originally Posted by Smallzies
So what! Who cares?
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'I don't like the look of it at all,' said the King: 'however, it may kiss my hand if it likes.'
'I'd rather not,' the Cat remarked.
'Don't be impertinent,' said the King, 'and don't look at me like that!' He got behind Alice as he spoke.
'A cat may look at a king,' said Alice.
I'm actually curious why there is so much rage (well ok not rage, but indignation) about trading a name for influence.
I have been following this thread, somewhat, and pretty much already expressed my opinion that there is nothing different from people selling SG bases or costume codes than names.
I understand that some people feel that some items hold an 'intrinisic' value but honestly nothing in this game has any real world value (or at least it shouldn't).
Stating that a name is a "free" commodity no more true than any other item in the game IOs drop for free, prestige is free.
I have no strong feelings either way about this honestly, I'm just saying we wouldn't ask an artist to give out free artwork just because the pixels that they used to create the picture were "free" we are willing to pay for their creativity, and this can also translate to people who pay others to build bases for them.
Would it have been nice for the OP to give those names away in a name exchange thread, yes, but should we expect everyone to be that generous, not really.
I actually do agree with ironblade that trading names for inf probably isn't really a 'community service' but it is a service that some people might be willing to trade influence for.
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Not necessarily. Some items require a commitment of time, and possibly effort (as well as that term can be applied to playing a game), and therefore have some "value" as a tradeable commodity. On the other hand, the name Bob...|
Originally Posted by The_Masque
Stating that a name is a "free" commodity no more true than any other item in the game IOs drop for free, prestige is free.
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With that said, if someone came up with a name that was actually difficult enough to imagine that they considered it work, but interesting enough that others would want it (even though they didn't imagine it themselves), they might have a case.
'I don't like the look of it at all,' said the King: 'however, it may kiss my hand if it likes.'
'I'd rather not,' the Cat remarked.
'Don't be impertinent,' said the King, 'and don't look at me like that!' He got behind Alice as he spoke.
'A cat may look at a king,' said Alice.
I totally understand where you are coming from, in the sense that time spent should have some value. I mean its why we want to know how much our jobs will pay and such.
However, I wonder if since this is a game and pretty much all of us play it for fun if the time spent getting these items really has a value since its really all just play time?
Maybe I'm over simplifying things. Like I said I do understand your point about effort and time having an intrinsic value even if its only to ourself.
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If i buy something, i acquired something.|
Originally Posted by Ironblade
No, you're misreading both posts. He states that he grabbed the names FOR his friend. Also that he doesn't see a problem in selling them. He did NOT say that he sold them *TO* his friend.
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Acquired for inf ... means he paid for them, means he bought them.
Dark Energon, Founder of the Freedom Legion SG on Guardian server.
(SG founded on 12-08-'09, Top100: 08-17-'10, Top50: 12-23-'10, Top25: 12-11-'11)
Crab Spider Nephila on Titan Tracker
Weekly events on Guardian: W.A.V.E. & FNFN
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i didn't change anything to that post except for making the part i needed to stand out bold. That's why i also included the post #, so others can go back and check.
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Originally Posted by Aneko
It's "exchanging for influence", not "acquired for influence".
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Dark Energon, Founder of the Freedom Legion SG on Guardian server.
(SG founded on 12-08-'09, Top100: 08-17-'10, Top50: 12-23-'10, Top25: 12-11-'11)
Crab Spider Nephila on Titan Tracker
Weekly events on Guardian: W.A.V.E. & FNFN
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I'm talking about parsing the sentence. Read it as "exchanging (something he acquired) for influence" rather than "exchanging (something he acquired for influence)".|
Originally Posted by Dark Energon
i didn't change anything to that post except for making the part i needed to stand out bold. That's why i also included the post #, so others can go back and check.
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If that doesn't help, look at it this way. It's the difference between "he took something he acquired and exchanged it for influence" and "he took something he acquired for influence and exchanged it".
'I don't like the look of it at all,' said the King: 'however, it may kiss my hand if it likes.'
'I'd rather not,' the Cat remarked.
'Don't be impertinent,' said the King, 'and don't look at me like that!' He got behind Alice as he spoke.
'A cat may look at a king,' said Alice.
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Originally Posted by Dark Energon
i didn't change anything to that post except for making the part i needed to stand out bold. That's why i also included the post #, so others can go back and check.
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I'm not going to sit here and explain my choice of sentence structure (or whatever you're having difficulty with.) I already clarified whatever you didn't comprehend in my last post. You don't need to keep nitpicking.
Anything I sell in this game, you can get yourself the same way I did (plus one inf if I bought it and crafted it.) Or a different way, usually, and a cheaper one. If you can't afford my Kinetic Combat Damage/Recharge, and you can't afford to outbid me by one inf for the recipe, you can run eleven missions over two days and get your own.
What the OP is selling? not exactly in such high supply.
But, hey, I figured I'd get in on it. What's the bid for Cybersquatter, Honest Graft or Real World Hero ?
Mini-guides: Force Field Defenders, Blasters, Market Self-Defense, Frankenslotting.
So you think you're a hero, huh.
@Boltcutter in game.
Lulz, Cybersquatter XD
There have been posts from you and your 'friend' which contradict the way you got these names in the 1st place:
-Friend reserved these names for you.
-Friend sold them to you
-You just got lucky
I still think your last post is to try and save your own behind from any actions taken from Mods, GM and maybe even Devs.
Obviously the fact that I managed to get the names was luck. People were bum rushing exalted, I fired up my COH as soon as the server went live to help Anni out since he was at work. He was texting me what names he wanted.
Where did anyone say I sold him the names? I gave them to him as soon as he got home. I don't charge my friends for favors.