Villian Powerpools
By
Agent White,
Posted on: 2011-12-03 14:41 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
I like the idea of an undercover arc, but it doesn't really make sense from a lore perspective to just allow patron powers to all heroes since they are specifically tied to villains who would not want any heroes learning their secrets.
Cascade, level 50 Blaster (NRG/NRG since before it was cool)
Mechmeister, level 50 Bots / Traps MM
FAR too many non-50 alts to name
[u]Arcs[u]
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Yeah this debate comes up every couple weeks. Lots of ideas and lots of things people like to call 'answers' buuuut really all just speculation and suggestions since the devs never weigh in.
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Nope. Not at all. And it's not weeks, it's 1 week. And if you get to vigilante at lvl 20, get to the point of the morality mission, and thenrun it as soon as you plan to open the patron pools, and start working your way back over that same day.
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Originally Posted by Dz131
Shouldn't it be time to open this up to both sides without like weeks of alignment missions? Or have an lv50 arc that puts you undercover so that it makes sense to have it.
It's like every hero I make needs to go through this ritual of sides witching because the Villian pools are imo alot better. |
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
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Four days is a week where you're from?
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Originally Posted by Dz131
Shouldn't it be time to open this up to both sides without like weeks of alignment missions? Or have an lv50 arc that puts you undercover so that it makes sense to have it.
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Clearly you misread his statement, Talen. Four days is like weeks where he's from. Plural. Pay attention.
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Originally Posted by Talen Lee
Four days is a week where you're from?
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In what way is it tied to any villain? It has a name and an arc you have to run, but nothing about the powers ties you to any particular patron. If I can recolor energy and use it as a water power, I surely can take a shield with minimal graphical effects without intending my character to be associated with some villain I care nothing about.
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Originally Posted by StrykerX
I like the idea of an undercover arc, but it doesn't really make sense from a lore perspective to just allow patron powers to all heroes since they are specifically tied to villains who would not want any heroes learning their secrets.
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I am incidentally in this same boat. I think that the patron pools are appealing enough that I will do it, which shows me that they're worth the time required. That in turn indicates to me that, like so many other things in the morality system, it's tuned somewhere around about right - someone will always want it faster.
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Originally Posted by Darth_Khasei
I hate having to do it but I understand why they have it the way it is.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
Clearly you misread his statement, Talen. Four days is like weeks where he's from. Plural. Pay attention.
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Originally Posted by Talen Lee
Four days is a week where you're from?
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4 days to go Red 4 days to go back Blue. That's 8 days at least.
i think Villian the Villain should get his own power pools. He's been grievously neglected and forgotten by the world in general. He became Villian the Villain so that the world would learn to spell villain correctly only to have his face beaten in by Blotto the Clown from the Uh-Oh Squad. If anyone deserves his own power pools it's poor, battered Villian.
Dr. Todt's theme.
i make stuff...
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Yep. And since this isn't the first time this is brought up, I guess other people are too. But too bad this thread is turning to a excuse for forum celebs to PL their post count.
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Originally Posted by Talen Lee
So, at the most, one week and one day. Oh, how you suffer.
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Yeah, but other people want everything handed to them without any effort on their part too. |
Originally Posted by Dz131
Yep. And since this isn't the first time this is brought up, I guess other people are too. But too bad this thread is turning to a excuse for forum celebs to PL their post count.
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I showed you how to do it without feeling like it actually takes a week, since it seems that you're real problem is either you would prefere to stay on blueside for teaming, want to stay strictly hero for hero merits, or don't want to do any tips at all.
It's not bad, you get badges for it, and now you can unlock the patron arcs sooner, meaning even easier tips to switch sides with.
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
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Good thing you brought up A Merits that's another one of my gripes. You can't get any from tips or SSA in that period either. Thats like 4-5 merits you missed out(one for each change and one for the SSA weekly).
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Originally Posted by BrandX
Yeah, but other people want everything handed to them without any effort on their part too.
I showed you how to do it without feeling like it actually takes a week, since it seems that you're real problem is either you would prefere to stay on blueside for teaming, want to stay strictly hero for hero merits, or don't want to do any tips at all. It's not bad, you get badges for it, and now you can unlock the patron arcs sooner, meaning even easier tips to switch sides with. |
And it doesnt have to be a straight shot, go have fun with it. May as well kill Statesman and his buddies on a LRSF along with taking a couple of mins to beat up Scrapyarder, Deathsurge etc.
Make your trip an adventure, not a chore
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Oh noes! |
Originally Posted by Dz131
Good thing you brought up A Merits that's another one of my gripes. You can't get any from tips or SSA in that period either. Thats like 4-5 merits you missed out(one for each change and one for the SSA weekly).
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Then pick an APP instead. Really, if you're willing to run tips daily to get the hero merits, running tips for a few days to alter alignments isn't really a chore.
And like I said, wait it out. Level 20, make way to vigilante, get to the morality mission mark, wait to run it untill you're level 34, then runt he morality, become a villain, unlock the patron, and do 5 more tips for Rogue!
Next day, 5 tips and morality and you're Rogue! 2 more days and your Hero again! \o/ And doing it that way, put's you to six days worth of tips, LESS THAN A WEEK, because you went straight to Vigilante.
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
Speaking only for myself, if I waited in vigilante limbo from 20 to 34 I would be losing several billion influence per character from the hero merits I wouldn't be earning. Of course you don't actually have to do it at level 20 but to dismiss losing hero merits offhand is rather silly as they are massively lucrative.
That aside, what are you supposed to do if your character concept doesn't involve deciding to become a villain for any amount of time, especially not for a reason as petty as getting an in with a cadre of chumps who wind up being so much incarnate fodder in the end? I don't feel particularly strongly about this myself but having read this forum I can tell you that a lot of people would. "So live without those powers," you reply. Why should we have to? What would be wrong with an alternate means of access? What if someone really wants to be a heroic ghost shark summoner?
Me, I never use those pools because red side seems completely pointless and I like hero merits too much to turn them off for such questionable benefit. Even though I can clearly live without them, though, would I complain about more access to more content? I would not.
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You have access to the content. The only thing limiting you to that content is your own choice.|
Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
Speaking only for myself, if I waited in vigilante limbo from 20 to 34 I would be losing several billion influence per character from the hero merits I wouldn't be earning. Of course you don't actually have to do it at level 20 but to dismiss losing hero merits offhand is rather silly as they are massively lucrative.
That aside, what are you supposed to do if your character concept doesn't involve deciding to become a villain for any amount of time, especially not for a reason as petty as getting an in with a cadre of chumps who wind up being so much incarnate fodder in the end? I don't feel particularly strongly about this myself but having read this forum I can tell you that a lot of people would. "So live without those powers," you reply. Why should we have to? What would be wrong with an alternate means of access? What if someone really wants to be a heroic ghost shark summoner? Me, I never use those pools because red side seems completely pointless and I like hero merits too much to turn them off for such questionable benefit. Even though I can clearly live without them, though, would I complain about more access to more content? I would not. |
Personally, I'll go redside completely OOCly if I think the patron pools fit the concept. There's no reason to think one did it totally IC, when the patron's dont even limit you to the pool you want anymore.
I mean really. You can't go redside due to concept, but you'll run the Ghost Widow arc to obtain the LEviathan Mastery PPP? (Obviously when I say you, I'm using that in a broad term).
I like to use Soul Mastery over Dark Mastery for lots of concepts that use Dark Powers, if I can get access to Soul Storm (love the animation).
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
I'm just posting to say despite the inconvience, I like how the patron powers are tied to patrons.
I like how to use patron powers you need to go red and back again as per story.
I don't suffer from altitis, I enjoy every minute of it.
Thank you Devs & Community people for a great game.
So sad to be ending ):
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Originally Posted by BrandX
Personally, I'll go redside completely OOCly if I think the patron pools fit the concept. There's no reason to think one did it totally IC, when the patron's dont even limit you to the pool you want anymore.
I mean really. You can't go redside due to concept, but you'll run the Ghost Widow arc to obtain the LEviathan Mastery PPP? (Obviously when I say you, I'm using that in a broad term). |
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Originally Posted by tanstaafl
I'm just posting to say despite the inconvience, I like how the patron powers are tied to patrons.
I like how to use patron powers you need to go red and back again as per story. |
What I think the OP has an issue with, and what I have an issue with, is that if you don't care about the story then unlocking these pools is just a big waste of your time. If you stacked all the missions you had to do end to end it's only a couple hours, no big deal, but the fact that it is also spread over a number of days by a number of annoying timers makes it a pain to do. It isn't fun. We know they could do better because they have produced much better content than this many times since issue 7.
I'm not a programmer but I don't think it would be that hard to add some SSA-like contact who sent you off via submarine to run a patron's missions under cover, or whatever. They could feel free to come up with something better than that if they wanted to. Any method of heroically gaining access to the patron pools would be an improvement over the current situation as long as it weren't either character-breaking or tediously protracted, a feat they could manage handily.
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It's not a waste of time if what your goal is, is to have access to the Patron Pools.
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Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
Obviously being two different people there is no inconsistency here on anyone's part but I found it a little funny hearing exactly opposing points back to back. Thing is, I don't disagree with either of you. It's interesting and makes sense to have to unlock the pools, yet that is easily ignored and the game doesn't try very hard at all to engage you in that mechanic beyond forcing you to click through a bit of text and be present in a few missions.
What I think the OP has an issue with, and what I have an issue with, is that if you don't care about the story then unlocking these pools is just a big waste of your time. If you stacked all the missions you had to do end to end it's only a couple hours, no big deal, but the fact that it is also spread over a number of days by a number of annoying timers makes it a pain to do. It isn't fun. We know they could do better because they have produced much better content than this many times since issue 7. I'm not a programmer but I don't think it would be that hard to add some SSA-like contact who sent you off via submarine to run a patron's missions under cover, or whatever. They could feel free to come up with something better than that if they wanted to. Any method of heroically gaining access to the patron pools would be an improvement over the current situation as long as it weren't either character-breaking or tediously protracted, a feat they could manage handily. |
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
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Thats another problem because some Patron powers are strictly better than the APP counter parts. Eg. Mids list Charged Armor under Villians as 20.63 for Lethal Smashing and Energy for Corrs. But Charged Armor under APP is 20.63 for Lethal Smashing and 15% for Energy for no good reason as they all have the same cost. And the pet under the patron pools is a very muleable skill as well.
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Originally Posted by BrandX
Oh noes!
Then pick an APP instead. Really, if you're willing to run tips daily to get the hero merits, running tips for a few days to alter alignments isn't really a chore. And like I said, wait it out. Level 20, make way to vigilante, get to the morality mission mark, wait to run it untill you're level 34, then runt he morality, become a villain, unlock the patron, and do 5 more tips for Rogue! Next day, 5 tips and morality and you're Rogue! 2 more days and your Hero again! \o/ And doing it that way, put's you to six days worth of tips, LESS THAN A WEEK, because you went straight to Vigilante. |
Well Charged Armor(hero) doesn't require a story arc containing at least 1 EB(usually more) whereas Charged Armor(Patron) does.
As for the argument in general when Patron Pools were first introduced there was a huge amount of legitimate complaints and balance concerns that people brought up.
What did People that only played Blueside do? They responded with too bad so sad.
Now I'm against heroes getting direct access to Villain Patron Pools, however I will gladly support Heroic Patron Pools that are different from the villain ones.
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This forum has celebs?
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Originally Posted by Dz131
Yep. And since this isn't the first time this is brought up, I guess other people are too. But too bad this thread is turning to a excuse for forum celebs to PL their post count.
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Shouldn't it be time to open this up to both sides without like weeks of alignment missions? Or have an lv50 arc that puts you undercover so that it makes sense to have it.
It's like every hero I make needs to go through this ritual of sides witching because the Villian pools are imo alot better.