And Energy Melee departs the penalty box...

Ok, that title is a bit of a prank

I do not think EM was deliberately placed in a "penalty mode" after the ET/TF nerf. I do however, think that a single, very overpowered attack was reduced in power without adequate consideration of the impact on the rest of the set.

EM was never grossly overpowered in PvE, it was strong at single target damage because of one problem child, and without it? It's right at the bottom of the heap in just about every measurement but single target control, where it does more or less ok.

I propose that it's time to re-examine this set, and change a few things. Hopefully some of my level 50 EMs might see the light of day again, after a long period of well deserved neglect.


Here are the changes I would make:

Energy Transfer: Ok, I appreciate the old power was a bit off the map, but the new one takes too damn long. My suggestion? shorten the recharge to 12 seconds. By my estimation that'd make for a base level 50 damage of about 130 on a tanker or about 183 on a scrapper. The self damage should be reduced to something between 1/2 and 2/3 of what it was. Switch back to the old animation, or something as close to it as testing will allow.

Stun: This power has no earthly purpose... well ok, it might have some purpose, but not much. I'd suggest keeping the animation, which is actually pretty decent, and having an AoE stun effect. Think fault, only with the centre of effect on a melee target rather than a ranged target. Mag 2 stun as per fault, but increase the duration a bit (no range, but lasts a little bit longer)

Whirling hands: Back in 2009, Dominators had the radius of their version of WH increased to 15. I'd propose the same her. EM has never been an AoE powerhouse, and I doubt this change would ever make it one. You'll have one light damage, but very usable AoE on a decent recharge.

Total Focus: I'd love to see the magnitude of the stun re-instated, but if my suggestion to change stun were to be instituted, this would be less of an issue.

What do you get?

Top notch st dps. Maybe nearly as good as the best DM or SS chains, but close enough for discussion sake. Sure you have some self damage, but... oh well.

Adequate AoE. Not great, but at least not downright aweful

Solid Control. Respectable AoE and ST control.

Do I have any reason to think this is possible? not a single reason, but I can dream...

I'm not sure adding AoE stun to the stun power will make it any more useful. Most ATs using this set survive without control pretty well, so it'd still be a throw away power.

Increasing the radius of Whirling Hands would certainly be a welcome change.

The thing with Energy Melee as it currently stands is there is just way too much delay in the set between when you queue an attack and when it actually hits the target.

On teams often a lot of the damage becomes overkill damage because between that amount of time it takes for an attack I have queued to actually hit the target often someone else has decided to attack that target as well, and often kills them before the attack even lands.

It almost makes me want to make a /macro TF "$$team Using Total Focus on $target, it will be dead in 3 seconds, please attack another target!"

Straight after the change I thought something could be done to whirling hands, the Devs said nothing needed to be done, over time more and more players felt something needed to be done but its still quiet.

If you attempt matching the powersets of Superstrength with Energy Melee on Mids then you might agree that there doesn't look to be alot of inbalance.

But if you have Perma Rage on the SS whilst Build Up up and downness causes peaks and trowels in EM damage output you might see a difference.

Overtime the DPS of Footstomp might be way better than the DPS of Whirling Hands due to Rage. I thought the STs had to change how they did, but after doing so the DPS of Whirling Hands needed to improve. The improvement never happened afaik and all this, is iirc.

EM is kinda sad nowadays.

KM outshines it in every way on a Stalker, with a 100% AoE crit from Hide and CS refreshing BU and doing close to the damage of ET (plus damage debuffing, stuns all over, KD on KM's attacks). And it has a ranged attack.

Stone Melee has a mag 4 hold on Seismic Smash (with a very short cast time unlike Total Focus, which btw does the same damage but now it's a mag 3 stun) and Tremor does the same damage as Whirling Hands on a Tanker/Brute, with the same recharge, reliable KD and a BIG radius, and even Tremor is considered 'meh' - and it only costs a little more endurance than WH.

EM has never been by bag, but here's a suggestion.

ET takes some of your HP and transfers it into damage, correct?

What if Stun did the opposite? In addition to the disorient, it rips some of the target's energy out and transforms it into a tiny PBAoE heal.

This offsets one of ETs drawbacks and is an attractive addition solo and on teams for any AT that gets EM.


.

EM's not actually bad per se--it's just totally average.

There's nothing that encourages an informed player to choose EM over some other set. It's meh, but not actually bad.


ETA I thought from the thread title that this was about some intent on the part of the devs to revisit EM. so disappointed.

I'd make ET like Thunder Strike. Have it do its energy damage component in an AoE around the target. I'd also make Whirling Hands stronger.

What really makes me disappointed about EM isn't just that it's got meh stats. It's also a very cool looking set... the energy "pom poms" that burst outward with the big 2-hand smash attacks just look awsome IMHO. It's one of my favorite sets to use for color/customizing purposes. It's probably the set I've *started* more then any other. But even if I get the toon to 50, I end up going back to a better performing alt.

the important question is: what is the role that you see Energy Melee playing?
If you want AoE dmg choose X set
If you want ST dmg choose Y set
If you want damage mitigation choose Z set
If you want healing choose Q set

It is perfectly reasonable to say EM is the set that has the most hard control in disorients/stuns. You may not want that, but it gives a reason why someone might choose the set.

There are a number of very easy fixes that could be made to the set to make it attractive.

I shall helpfully repost the ones I like here!

• AoE splash damage on Energy Transfer or Total Focus.
• Increasing the Whirling Hands radius.
• Changing the animations of either Energy Transfer or Total Focus to something a bit quicker. Two loooong powers in the same set is just too much.
• Giving Stun the Clobber treatment, and making it a fast and damaging attack, and thus useful.

I'd give Energy Melee a new mechanic:

Stunned Opponents have their damage transferred into 50% splash damage. This would give a reason for taking Stun.

Damn it, I thought this thread would list some new buffs to the set

Instead it's just ideas that will be ignored by the devs. EM seems to be like PvP in this game. The devs have made up their minds about it, and even though it's plainly obvious that they're completely wrong, they refuse to listen to any reason.

I have 2 EM toons that used to be good (not great)....but now they're just a total joke and don't get played at all.

Ah, here it is:

If they could revamp one powerset:
Synapse: Energy Melee if it's minor, totally tearing apart and starting over, he has to pass.
Posi: Energy Blast, as it was one of the first sets they did. They have a lot more tools in the toolbox now to make a cooler set.
BS: Power pools "I'd revamp presence, medicine, possibly even fighting."

Other than radius, Whirling Hands isn't a problem - it's like many sets, where the one PBAOE does roughly the same damage as the weakest attack in the set.

Some ideas in here are interesting though. I've always wished that it had higher chances of status effects baked in, but it's been a long time since I played this set. It used to be the top Stalker set for a very long time.