Discussion: Happy Holidays from Paragon Studios - A Message from Brian Clayton
By
Aggelakis,
Posted on: 2011-12-02 10:59 in News, Events and Announcement Discussion
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Sorry didnt mean suspend my 400 pts but just the extra 150. If they kept the 400 points and gave me a 15% discount on in store items as a VIP I would be ok with that deal.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
I would not be fine with Paragon Studios switching my extra 150 points into a 10% - 15% discount, given that the breakeven point is 1000 - 1500 points of purchases per month *above* the 400 stipend, or 1400 - 1900 points per month total.
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You'd be happy with all the cool stuff you bought!
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
I would not be fine with Paragon Studios switching my extra 150 points into a 10% - 15% discount, given that the breakeven point is 1000 - 1500 points of purchases per month *above* the 400 stipend, or 1400 - 1900 points per month total.
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I know that's what you meant.|
Originally Posted by thedarkeone
Sorry didnt mean suspend my 400 pts but just the extra 150. If they kept the 400 points and gave me a 15% discount on in store items as a VIP I would be ok with that deal.
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400 points + 15% discount vs 400 points + 150 VIP bonus
@ 550 points of purchase: you pay 127.5 points, I pay zero
@ 750 points of purchase: you pay 297.5 points, I pay 200
@1000 points of purchase: you pay 510 points, I pay 450
@1400 points of purchase: you pay 850 points, I pay 850
Below 1400 points of purchase per month, I pay less with 150 VIP bonus than you pay with 15% discount. At 10% discount the break even is higher.
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What's made me happiest is the way it's invigorated the early-game experience and made acquisition easier. I can get people to try the game very easily, without the same feeling of limited time from a trial account's launching. I like being able to pick and choose from costume parts so I can decide if I want a whole pack (which I did with Halloween) or if I want individual bits (which I did with the Barbarian pack). I like the new focus on regular additions to the game, including small sale, cosmetic things like the dog, pet, the addition of costume components that would not normally be worth putting out, along with things like boosters and windfalls. I like the sound of these things.
I'm not fond of the gunslinger pack (I said as much, and am boycotting the pack as it stands). I'm sad that market forces are going to forever keep the wealthy ATs getting wealthier (it's simply better RoI to give more to scrappers than to Dominators, f'rex). I'm sad that the areas that have gotten interesting, remarkable development effort (the combo system, momentum) are going to once more be those same wealthy ATs. I'm a little sad that it's more or less official that if you're not in the popular areas of the game, you are just automatically going to get less attention (Gravity has needed fixing for years; Freedom indicates it will probably never get it). I miss Castle. I miss BABs. I miss TheOcho. I have a strong emotional contact to those voices and how they chose to interact with us as players, and I felt they understood the game on a very deep level.
Overall, it's been a great year. Thanks for the hard work, keep it up.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
I know that's what you meant.
400 points + 15% discount vs 400 points + 150 VIP bonus @ 550 points of purchase: you pay 127.5 points, I pay zero @ 750 points of purchase: you pay 297.5 points, I pay 200 @1000 points of purchase: you pay 510 points, I pay 450 @1400 points of purchase: you pay 850 points, I pay 850 Below 1400 points of purchase per month, I pay less with 150 VIP bonus than you pay with 15% discount. At 10% discount the break even is higher. |
Ok, fine fine. . . You math people :-P
Make it a 20% discount for VIPs.
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I'm not sure there's enough cool stuff to spend 16,800 points a year on. We're way past german shepherd and entering Iditarod mush team territory.
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Originally Posted by Zombie Man
You'd be happy with all the cool stuff you bought!
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According to this post, the pack will be included with the purchase of the set for the first two weeks.
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Originally Posted by Dante
The same goes for Titan Weapons. This set is going out with a tiny amout of options so that you can charge us more for further options. Instead, how about VIPs get all the skins thrown in for free, just because we're VIPs?
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@Demobot
Also on Steam
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This only moves the bar a bit.|
Originally Posted by thedarkeone
Ok, fine fine. . . You math people :-P
Make it a 20% discount for VIPs. |
Shamelessly stealing from Arcanaville:
400 points + 20% discount vs 400 points + 150 VIP bonus
@ 550 points of purchase: you pay 120 points, I pay zero
@ 750 points of purchase: you pay 280 points, I pay 200
@1000 points of purchase: you pay 480 points, I pay 450
@1150 points of purchase: you pay 600 points, I pay 600
Not everyone wants to buy nearly $100 of points every year. For those who don't, the current bonus is still better.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Softcapping an Invuln is fantastic. Softcapping a Willpower is amazing. Softcapping SR is kissing your sister.
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Hmmm, ok I have never been one to argue math but I am lost where you guys are getting these numbers from. Can you help me out?|
Originally Posted by Void_Huntress
This only moves the bar a bit.
Shamelessly stealing from Arcanaville: 400 points + 20% discount vs 400 points + 150 VIP bonus @ 550 points of purchase: you pay 120 points, I pay zero @ 750 points of purchase: you pay 280 points, I pay 200 @1000 points of purchase: you pay 480 points, I pay 450 @1150 points of purchase: you pay 600 points, I pay 600 Not everyone wants to buy nearly $100 of points every year. For those who don't, the current bonus is still better. |
550*20%= 110 points off
@550 points of purchase: I pay 40 points you pay nothing
750*20%= 150 points off
@750 points of purchase: I pay 200 points, you pay 200 points
1000*20%= 200 points off
@1000 points of purchase: I pay 400 points, you pay 450 points
1150 points*20%= 230 points off
@1150 points of purchase: I pay 520, you pay 600 points
Let me know how I am looking at this wrong. . . With all the medicine I am from my shoulder surgery maybe I am just completely out of it?
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Originally Posted by thedarkeone
Hmmm, ok I have never been one to argue math but I am lost where you guys are getting these numbers from. Can you help me out?
550*20%= 110 points off @550 points of purchase: I pay 40 points you pay nothing 750*20%= 150 points off @750 points of purchase: I pay 200 points, you pay 200 points 1000*20%= 200 points off @1000 points of purchase: I pay 400 points, you pay 450 points 1150 points*20%= 230 points off @1150 points of purchase: I pay 520, you pay 600 points Let me know how I am looking at this wrong. . . With all the medicine I am from my shoulder surgery maybe I am just completely out of it? |
Your mistake is basing the discount on 550 points - the discount would be on the purchased points not the already free ones
so 400points both cases free
550 points - your way (400+150*.8) 120 points extra - current way free
750 points - your way (400+350*.8) 280 points extra - current way 200 points
1000 points (400+600*.8) 480 450
etc
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I still dont see your math. |
Originally Posted by Gaia
Your mistake is basing the discount on 550 points - the discount would be on the purchased points not the already free ones
so 400points both cases free 550 points - your way (400+150*.8) 120 points extra - current way free 750 points - your way (400+350*.8) 280 points extra - current way 200 points 1000 points (400+600*.8) 480 450 etc |
My way:
I get 400 points per month and a 20% discount on in-store purchases. I buy Titan Weapons today for 800 points less my 20% discount (800*.8=640 points). I have to purchase an additional 240 points.
I get my 400 points per month and a 20% discount on in-store purchases. I spend 1200 points today on Titan Weapons and a costume bundle (1200*.8= 960 points). I have to spend an additional 560 points.
Current way:
I get 550 points per month. I buy Titan Weapons today for 800 points and I have to spend an additional 250 points.
I get 550 points per month. I buy Titan Weapons and a costume bundle for 1200points. I have to spend an additional 650 points.
Not seeing your math at all guys, sorry. I am not trying to be difficult I just dont get what you are coming from.
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I would like to get additional stipend points at higher veteran ranks, where the difference between a premium and VIP is increasingly low. I know you gave the top level more, but it could use another point boost somewhere in the hierarchy.|
Originally Posted by Zwillinger
What can we do to add even more value to our VIP subscription?
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Similarly, a license to let premiums use incarnates would both quantize the value of a VIP and bring additional people to the trials so they are easier to use. In addition, improving the incarnate trial access, like not requiring leagues to be in zone.
A game is not supposed to be some kind of... place where people enjoy themselves!
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I realize that dealing with figuring out discount percentages is like 3rd grade math but getting a simple 150 additional points per month is like 1st grade math. Since there seems to be a question about how the generic math works in this case anyway it might be prudent to let the game stick to the "Keep It Simple Stupid" principle and avoid what appears to be the extra confusion here. *shrugs*
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Originally Posted by thedarkeone
Not seeing your math at all guys, sorry. I am not trying to be difficult I just dont get what you are coming from.
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Brought back people. Several new, good powersets and costume packs.|
Originally Posted by Zwillinger
what have you liked most about Freedom?
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| What havent you liked? |
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| What can we do to add even more value to our VIP subscription? |
The missions and slots can be purchased, and base rent is annoying, but could be coped with. Currently, the only reason to VIP is convenience and Incarnate.
To make more valuable
1. more content free to VIP. even if it can be purchased, make it so buying it is more expensive than subscribing
2. something exclusive. right now, incarnates are the only exclusive thing for being VIP.
3. make incarnates better (hopefully already being done with DA). No really, when the only exclusive part of VIP status is something people voluntarily avoid, then that's a problem.
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If the discount is on the store prices and not on points purchased, then a 20% discount in the store essentially lets you buy 500 points of stuff. The break even point is at 440 points discounted = 550 points.|
Originally Posted by thedarkeone
I still dont see your math.
My way: I get 400 points per month and a 20% discount on in-store purchases. I buy Titan Weapons today for 800 points less my 20% discount (800*.8=640 points). I have to purchase an additional 240 points. I get my 400 points per month and a 20% discount on in-store purchases. I spend 1200 points today on Titan Weapons and a costume bundle (1200*.8= 960 points). I have to spend an additional 560 points. Current way: I get 550 points per month. I buy Titan Weapons today for 800 points and I have to spend an additional 250 points. I get 550 points per month. I buy Titan Weapons and a costume bundle for 1200points. I have to spend an additional 650 points. Not seeing your math at all guys, sorry. I am not trying to be difficult I just dont get what you are coming from. |
Not only is it still not universally better, but at some point the question becomes is it even possible to get it. We can ask for 50% off, or 90% off, but this is all fungible: you can't just give away whatever you want.
Points are frontloaded. Every tier 9 VIP gets the same benefit: the same 150 points. We can spend them, we can bank them. We do not need to spend any cash to use them. A discount cash spending to leverage the discount. For any reasonable set of numbers, we will have to spend money to get the benefit. That's the fundamental difference. Do we tell our long term tier 9 VIPs that we value them enough to give all of them the same something extra, or do we tell our long term tier 9 VIPs that we value them enough to let them have a discount if they are willing to spend even more money.
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Despite the math there's also a pretty simple bit of marketing psychology going on here. Sure if the game gave me some kind of "VIP discount" I could figure out how to best utilize it but it would always be a vague concept that I'd have to "indirectly intellectualize" in order to fully appreciate. On the other hand all I have to do with a bonus 150 points is to look at my total available points and I'll be motivated to use MORE of them because I'll unconsciously rationalize that "I might as well spend them because I already have them to spend".
Basically it's a subtle marketing maneuver to get people willing to spend more points than they otherwise would have. Making my total point number look bigger is going to be far more enticing to me than forcing me to have to do -any- extra discount math (no matter how simple that math might be).
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You're missing my point. |
Originally Posted by Demobot
According to this post, the pack will be included with the purchase of the set for the first two weeks.
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That was an incentive for everyone to purchase Titan Weapons asap. VIPs received no better or worse treatment than anyone else with that move. That is what I feel has to change.
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High end bars and clubs (especially the gentelman's kind) locked onto this a long time ago. Most use "funny money" that you can convery real cash into (and a lot of the gent's clubs ONLY issue "funny money" if you use their sponsored ATM). It typically works with a 25% "discount" system (for every 4 bucks of real cash you get 5 of funny money). The Funny Money is useless outside the club, naturally, but converting it changes the way you think about your cash.|
Originally Posted by Lothic
Despite the math there's also a pretty simple bit of marketing psychology going on here. Sure if the game gave me some kind of "VIP discount" I could figure out how to best utilize it but it would always be a vague concept that I'd have to "indirectly intellectualize" in order to fully appreciate. On the other hand all I have to do with a bonus 150 points is to look at my total available points and I'll be motivated to use MORE of them because I'll unconsciously rationalize that "I might as well spend them because I already have them to spend".
Basically it's a subtle marketing maneuver to get people willing to spend more points than they otherwise would have. Making my total point number look bigger is going to be far more enticing to me than forcing me to have to do -any- extra discount math (no matter how simple that math might be). |
Psychologicaly you accept you're getting more for your money when you convert, but once you have the fake stuff in hand you start to view it as worthless and therefore spend more of it and will accept higher prices for goods and services than you normally would if you were paying in cash.
Clubs using "funny money" usually see a boost in sales of 20 to 50% even if they have a "you can cash out when you leave" system in place form before they implimented it.
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The one thing you guys arent accounting for is I never said this as a tier 9 VIP. I would apply the 20% discount across the board for all subscribers during their active subscription. I feel this would more than entice more people to be subscribers.|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
If the discount is on the store prices and not on points purchased, then a 20% discount in the store essentially lets you buy 500 points of stuff. The break even point is at 440 points discounted = 550 points.
Not only is it still not universally better, but at some point the question becomes is it even possible to get it. We can ask for 50% off, or 90% off, but this is all fungible: you can't just give away whatever you want. Points are frontloaded. Every tier 9 VIP gets the same benefit: the same 150 points. We can spend them, we can bank them. We do not need to spend any cash to use them. A discount cash spending to leverage the discount. For any reasonable set of numbers, we will have to spend money to get the benefit. That's the fundamental difference. Do we tell our long term tier 9 VIPs that we value them enough to give all of them the same something extra, or do we tell our long term tier 9 VIPs that we value them enough to let them have a discount if they are willing to spend even more money. |
"Hey, if i buy a 6 month subscription I get access to all aspects of the game, plus 400 points per month, and a 20% discount in store for being a VIP."
vs.
"hey, if I buy a 6 month subscription I will be a tier 3 or 4 vet, get 400 points per month, and watch the tier 9 VIP's get more points than me. . . WT?!?!?!?!"
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To entice people into a purchase is essentially marketing (but i just think of it as manipulating perception of value or other things) so it would be interesting which one would entice people more regardless of practicality...the 20% discount or 150 extra points.|
Originally Posted by thedarkeone
The one thing you guys arent accounting for is I never said this as a tier 9 VIP. I would apply the 20% discount across the board for all subscribers during their active subscription. I feel this would more than entice more people to be subscribers.
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I'm no math wiz so i could be off on this but here's how i'm seeing the two scenarios:
Code:
Months Banked PP Buy Leftover PP
PlanA 400 +20% 1 400 - 320 = 80
PlanB 400 +150 1 550 - 400 = 150
PlanA 400 +20% 3 1200 - 960 = 240
PlanB 400 +150 3 1650 - 1200 = 450
PlanA 400 +20% 6 2400 - 1920 = 480
PlanB 400 +150 6 3300 - 2400 = 900
PlanA 400 +20% 12 4800 - 3840 = 960
PlanB 400 +150 12 6600 - 4800 = 1800
It seems like that extra 150 gets people more banked points sooner and also have more points leftover after purchases compared to just a flat 20% discount on purchases.
So from a practical standpoint, it's better if you just ask for more points for all VIPs, not just the T9s. Or go all out and ask for across the board points increase and price discount.
I don't see them doing either but you never know hehe.
I love just about everything about Freedom. The only complaint I have is not being able to provide feedback on items before they come to the Market. This has been alleviated a bit through the beta forums but before that we didn't have a chance to get feedback listened to BEFORE items went on sale.
In particular I'm thinking about the Barbarian set. So much awesome yet some things really were overlooked and could have been addressed if we were given a chance to review first.
So I'd say it'd be nice to have a dedicated forum for everything Market related where we can preview and provide feedback on things before they're sold.
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Take everything that is now something that a VIP has to unlock with points (powersets, costume packs, etc.) and unlock them. If this means the monthly stipend of points needs to be reduced or even go away, that's fine. Make it truly desirable to be a VIP. Right now, there really isn't much incentive for me to keep paying $15 a month. If I didn't have to worry about buying any new content ever again, I'd make sure my subscription stays active.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
What can we do to add even more value to our VIP subscription?
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Save Paragon one more time! http://www.cohtitan.com/forum/index....ic,4877.0.html
Petition to end shutting down CoH:
http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes
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I am questioning why I bother to keep a VIP status also. Problems with tokens, vet reards and buying a costume bundle and customer supports response or lack of response is leading me to believe free is the way to go. Of course NC/NC might believe I wil sink that money into more perks or packs . They would be wrong. I sink money into extras when I have many characters available. If you value a customer base you treat them well not like impediments. I vowed I would never try out the Distingiushed Competitors game - guess what I am trying it, I would never had looked at it but supports answers are pushing me that way.
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Originally Posted by Zybron1
Take everything that is now something that a VIP has to unlock with points (powersets, costume packs, etc.) and unlock them. If this means the monthly stipend of points needs to be reduced or even go away, that's fine. Make it truly desirable to be a VIP. Right now, there really isn't much incentive for me to keep paying $15 a month. If I didn't have to worry about buying any new content ever again, I'd make sure my subscription stays active.
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My only issue with chosing to be VIP or not is the fact that the only thing being VIP provides for free for me being a tier 8 vet is Incarnates, and more character slots that I could ever use.
Being a customer who has purchased numerous slots over the years, I find I have more than plenty of slots to use as a premium player. The part of the game I enjoy most is leveling from 1-50, so incarnate powers and iTrials isn't really a major selling point for me, especially not for $10 a month. As such, I find I it to be a better deal to be 'not VIP' and merely purchase points as I want to buy things.
$15 a month for 400 points as VIP
-or-
$5 a month for 400 points as Premium
You have provided a few 'VIP' perks. IDF costume set, First Ward, Time Manipulation, but even with these 'freebies', I find it would 'still' be cheaper to simply purchase them outright (if I find I want them), than to continue paying an additional $10 a month for them.
As a player like me not especially interested in iTrials and mostly interested in the leveling from 1-50 content, I wonder, where is the incentive to 'be' VIP? Being a VIP should be an obvious 'YES!', but at it stands, I'm not sure it is.
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