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Yeah I took one look at the womens costume for gunslinger and just thought of the old west brothels or the can can girl. I was only really happy with the hair.|
Originally Posted by Firemoth
Here's another way of looking at it, I guess. The devs say they don't want to objectify the females, or to make them into harems, etc etc....yet they have been coming out with objectifying costumes...including a harem like outfit (Genie).....to use their own statement they "can't have it both ways"
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Amazon women MMs now please. They signify strength, independence and most of all, no living in a mans world.
Just had a thought:
If you select male at the character selection screen you should get the tribe of men that once a year had relationships with the Amazon women for pets. They raised the boys.
If you select female then you get the Amazon women.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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And then you'd have people crying sexist all over again, and saying limiting of concepts.|
Originally Posted by New Dawn
Yeah I took one look at the womens costume for gunslinger and just thought of the old west brothels or the can can girl. I was only really happy with the hair.
Amazon women MMs now please. They signify strength, independence and most of all, no living in a mans world. Just had a thought: If you select male at the character selection screen you should get the tribe of men that once a year had relationships with the Amazon women for pets. They raised the boys. If you select female then you get the Amazon women. |
Further proof, the devs cant win.
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
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Nope, its historical and/or mythologically correct.|
Originally Posted by BrandX
And then you'd have people crying sexist all over again, and saying limiting of concepts.
Further proof, the devs cant win. |
I wouldn't complain about sexism when it comes to being historically correct.
Political correctness has no place when it comes to historical correctness.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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But at the same time, they can't cry out "We're not going to do this because it would show women being objectified/misused!" and turn around and give us a set where the females look dolled up and look more like a damsel in distress than an actual fighter. Especially when they assume that the MM pets would just be bikini girls with guns. I presented several different options of NON-bikini style girls at the Pummit, and felt like I was just brushed off with the "that would objectify the women" and "someone, somewhere, might do something naughty with them".|
Originally Posted by BrandX
And then you'd have people crying sexist all over again, and saying limiting of concepts.
Further proof, the devs cant win. |
People brought up that the ERPers would misuse them...but if this is a T for Teen game...they shouldn't even be ERPing to begin with IMO. I didn't like having to explain to my youngest daughter when she hopped onto Virtue (I didn't know she'd jumped from Joyrock's and my home server of Champion) that the people who were messaging her for....things....needed to be reported.
PS: Not dissing on Virtue, I play on there myself, that just happened to be the server she wound up going to. (Please don't get the pitchforks!
)
has pitch fork...... but it has to be used on hay
Yeah and while you are at it you can adjust female chest but your male "package" while on display in tights doesn't adjust! Statesman looks like he's been castrated.
Just helping saving time. These posts always devolve down to their lowest possible denominator fast.
There is no reason no to give women/men items from past they didn't get but there is one big good reason not to ever do it. You can't sell a "all the stuff we probably should have done the first time but are charging you for now" costume package. Well you can but paying for it won't be popular with players.
Some of them could be done as weekly updates though, Head Tatoos are a good example of something you could sell as one of the cheap weekly updates. Tats in general could be an entire new area for COH costumes.
While I'd like female pets I kind of agree with Devs on this one. I know a number of people who only want them so they can dress like Pimps and go around pretending to mistreat them. We get enough of that 12 year old stuff already, we have WoW for all the immature players.
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You can't please everyone, so lets concentrate on me.
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Why on earth would a game about superheroes care about being "historically correct"? If it was historically correct I wouldn't be able to make female frontline soldiers from most cultures, lady knights who weren't hiding their gender, female samurai who had romantic relationships, or any number of other worthwhile concepts. Or, you know, magic-users or catboys or cyborgs or SUPERHEROES.|
Originally Posted by New Dawn
Nope, its historical and/or mythologically correct.
I wouldn't complain about sexism when it comes to being historically correct. |
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| Political correctness has no place when it comes to historical correctness. |
The Girl Your Mother Warned You About
Primary Virtue ~ Secondary Guardian
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And they would get reported, just like the people who already go around doing it in the game. |
Originally Posted by Ultra_Violence
While I'd like female pets I kind of agree with Devs on this one. I know a number of people who only want them so they can dress like Pimps and go around pretending to mistreat them. We get enough of that 12 year old stuff already, we have WoW for all the immature players.
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Sadly, like the devs are assuming, you're making it sound like a large majority of the player base would do this, instead of just a small chunk of them that seem to forget the rules.
One thing that CoX does have, versus some other games I've played, is a player base with functioning brains. They understand that the game is T for Teen, and not M for Mature, so to do things of the nature the Devs have described would go against the guidelines set out for the players.
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Hmmm...interresting, I found that on every server, not just Virtue. |
Originally Posted by Firemoth
But at the same time, they can't cry out "We're not going to do this because it would show women being objectified/misused!" and turn around and give us a set where the females look dolled up and look more like a damsel in distress than an actual fighter. Especially when they assume that the MM pets would just be bikini girls with guns. I presented several different options of NON-bikini style girls at the Pummit, and felt like I was just brushed off with the "that would objectify the women" and "someone, somewhere, might do something naughty with them".
People brought up that the ERPers would misuse them...but if this is a T for Teen game...they shouldn't even be ERPing to begin with IMO. I didn't like having to explain to my youngest daughter when she hopped onto Virtue (I didn't know she'd jumped from Joyrock's and my home server of Champion) that the people who were messaging her for....things....needed to be reported. PS: Not dissing on Virtue, I play on there myself, that just happened to be the server she wound up going to. (Please don't get the pitchforks! ) |
And you want historicical correctness in a game that's whole historical background is different than the real world.
You know a lot of the recent presidents of the US? Not the recent presidents in CoH. It's like the 90's X-Men cartoon in that way. Even DC/Marvel comics.
The US never had an empororer. Rhode Island is bigger in CoH than RL, due to a massive earthquake that revealed a secret underground city...ect...ect...
Oh yeah, I think we can also agree that such things as Zeus never existed (or if they did, it's at least not the commonly held belief
)And all the talk about costumization, while I wouldn't do it, what if that's what the player wants? Camo Bikini clad mercs!
Any idea that changes a power set based on the gender of your avatar isn't a good idea. Especially when they can do exactly the same thing with a female avatar MM instead of a male avatar MM.
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
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In CoHworld, Nemesis is only the 2nd Emperor of the United States (and I've always thought that Nemesis actually being Emperor Norton would be far cooler than him being an old German guy |
Originally Posted by BrandX
The US never had an empororer.
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)
You want to know the secret of the world? It's this: Save it, and it'll repay you, every second of every day.
@Dr. Reverend - My DeviantArt Gallery
Crow Call - Gods of the Golden Age
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Same here. I kind of just hide out on Champion, but when I've strayed to the other servers, I've seen some weird stuff.....(Heck, I have to put up a disclaimer when I run with people because I KNOW I'm going to wind up saying some really weird out in left field stuff while in missions.)|
Originally Posted by BrandX
Hmmm...interresting, I found that on every server, not just Virtue.
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Oh yeah, I think we can also agree that such things as Zeus never existed (or if they did, it's at least not the commonly held belief )
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| And all the talk about costumization, while I wouldn't do it, what if that's what the player wants? Camo Bikini clad mercs! |
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| Any idea that changes a power set based on the gender of your avatar isn't a good idea. Especially when they can do exactly the same thing with a female avatar MM instead of a male avatar MM. |
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Nice way to make an argument that shoots itself down. Women who get into the military at all do it by showing themselves to be every bit as badass as their male counterparts. They don't hide behind their companions because they don't need to.|
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Nice way to insult every woman serving as an officer or NCO in the military or any other male dominated career for that matter. So you don't think it's empowering that a woman in a leadership position can inspire a bunch of men with Esprit De Corp so they are willing to charge the very gates of Hell and die for her.
Women had to fight tooth and nail to get the respect and loyalty that men in the same position are given automatically and if you think they are lame or that they are letting men do their fighting for them, then you seriously need to get your head examined. |
A Mastermind, on the other hand, is weaker in combat than their tier 1 minions - the polar opposite of that notion. Even if you take all 3 attacks and the whole fighting pool, you don't even count as an afterthought in a battle.
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It doesn't have to have a place but it can have a place. There is a difference.
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Originally Posted by FoxLee
And historical correctness has no place in a superheroic fantasy game!
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He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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Sure, it can be allowed to join in the game, as long as it doesn't get in the way of anything. But it's not more important or relevant than "what looks cool" or "allowing maximum creativity" or even "what we should do on principle".|
Originally Posted by New Dawn
It doesn't have to have a place but it can have a place. There is a difference.
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As soon as it gets in the way of something more important - like being used as an excuse to limit the choices available for depicting a character based on their gender - then it can GTFO.
The Girl Your Mother Warned You About
Primary Virtue ~ Secondary Guardian
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i think this is a good idea and relevant to the main topic.|
Originally Posted by FoxLee
Let me be clear that I don't want MMs to get female pets if it's only in a new female-only set, like the Carnies everybody keeps asking for. "Male minions are soldiers and female minions are busty dolled-up harlequins" is exactly the same as "male gunslingers are cool cowboys and female gunslingers are saloon floozies" by my estimation. Providing a female-only option with an aesthetic directed towards fanservice and femininity isn't equalising, it's just furthering the idea that men and women must be separate and different.
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although for a carnie MM set [which i feel should be unlocked via some great task as it would be uber awesome] to me would have two strong men and a harlequin fencer as tier 1 pets, ring mistresses as tier 2 pets, and a illusionist as tier 3, with phantom decoy as the extra random power that MMs get, and the usual buffs and attacks based off carnie attacks.
but for other MM's i believe that as for customization and the introduction of female MM pets, alt models - some specific to ingame enemy groups unlocked via badges - would be a great idea to solve this problem. KoA as ninjas or mercs, succubus as demons [along with CoT demons, cold ones too!], spectral/zombies we have plenty of in game zombie alt models... and so on. clockwork of all sorts of variety, some gendered some not. all the same powers just an alt model/skin that can be customized for some sets, per pet [like tier 1 zombie 1: vhaz, tier 1 zombie 2: banished pantheon, tier 1 zombie 3: default].
i dont believe in complete customization for MMs but we should have customization through several alt models that simply change the skins, same powers is a no-brainer. but there is so much potential here. but that's another thread i suppose.
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Originally Posted by Ultra_Violence
Yeah and while you are at it you can adjust female chest but your male "package" while on display in tights doesn't adjust! Statesman looks like he's been castrated.
Just helping saving time. These posts always devolve down to their lowest possible denominator fast. There is no reason no to give women/men items from past they didn't get but there is one big good reason not to ever do it. You can't sell a "all the stuff we probably should have done the first time but are charging you for now" costume package. Well you can but paying for it won't be popular with players. Some of them could be done as weekly updates though, Head Tatoos are a good example of something you could sell as one of the cheap weekly updates. Tats in general could be an entire new area for COH costumes. While I'd like female pets I kind of agree with Devs on this one. I know a number of people who only want them so they can dress like Pimps and go around pretending to mistreat them. We get enough of that 12 year old stuff already, we have WoW for all the immature players. |
also important.
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Originally Posted by Firemoth
I was siting that example because the moment I mentioned it at the Pummit, the first comments from the Devs were about Bikini girls and Fembots (which actually irked me quite a bit).
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.but above all, i would like to see the costume pieces listed here ported over as a start, then on to the bigger things like alt and female MM models, and a female huge body type, and no camel-toe on a fem bot and extended mother mayhem boobs [why?! was that really necessary?].
also, explain to me why nightstar -a robot- has boobs, and seige -also a robot and basically the same- isnt even really humanoid. explain. *really*.
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Because Nightstar's creator is a male and follows the rule of "Style is important"?
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Originally Posted by daveyj3
also, explain to me why nightstar -a robot- has boobs, and seige -also a robot and basically the same- isnt even really humanoid. explain. *really*.
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BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
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And he's lonely and single. |
Originally Posted by BrandX
Because Nightstar's creator is a male and follows the rule of "Style is important"?
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Didn't they say explicitly he made it as a 'testament to his love' for Dominatrix? So, yah, kind of a no-brainer there.
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^This|
Originally Posted by Agent White
Didn't they say explicitly he made it as a 'testament to his love' for Dominatrix? So, yah, kind of a no-brainer there.
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Also the Praetorian Clockwork are meant to be way more human than the primal counterparts. They're pretty much as much contributors to society as any normal citizen, if not more. And since warworks are just beefed up Clockwork...
http://www.virtueverse.net/wiki/Shadow_Mokadara
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very true |
Originally Posted by ShadowMoka
^This
Also the Praetorian Clockwork are meant to be way more human than the primal counterparts. They're pretty much as much contributors to society as any normal citizen, if not more. And since warworks are just beefed up Clockwork... |
but some Warworks are humanshape, and would more reasonably fit inside buildings so for one that is a contact/av/significant figure, it might make more sense to have a warwork like this... http://paragonwiki.com/w/images//thu...px-IDF_BCU.jpg
[idk how to put images in here]
but painted up red and white and spiffy as SIEGE ...and keep the big ones outside. cuz... really? gonna use orbital strike... on your own warehouse/laboratory?
but i think im going off on a tangent... :/ lol
Just a bit
I do find it a bit suspect that that I have never once seen a poll about female MM minions, or about female costumes, yet the Devs claim to know what the player base wants. Asking instead of assuming might get some surprising answers.
I'm gonna +1^infinity this
I've got a few character concepts...I made a female gunfighter, a LONG time back, I thought the gunslinger set would improve her look.
Nope. She's a gunfighter of the "There's six of you and I've got two six-shooters, can kill the lot of ya twice before the first of ya hit the ground" type, not a saloon floozy.
I want to make someone similar to Stompa (go ahead, say something about her size...).
Got a few other mastermind-types in mind, again, I can shove them into having male or monstrous minions, but those choices are dramatically inferior to what I *want*. And no, I don't want them to key-bind some dirty macros to them...RP via pet is boring anyway
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*points to the link in her Sig.* I'm trying to get their attention as much as possible, tired of getting the same old excuses of "someone might do something wrong with them!"...and want it to not just be my voice stating it.
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Originally Posted by Kai
Just a bit
I do find it a bit suspect that that I have never once seen a poll about female MM minions, or about female costumes, yet the Devs claim to know what the player base wants. Asking instead of assuming might get some surprising answers. |
And one of the pets could be a Carnie Strong Man...personally I'd want it to be one of the minion level pets, because I picture the Dark Ring Mistress being the boss level pet, buuut, it could just as easily be the Strong Man as the boss level bruiser.
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection