The Leadership of Desdemona (Warning: Spoiler Heavy)


Agent White

 

Posted

So, as you may or may not know (and if you don't, you may not want to read this) as of the end of the Underground Trial, Desdemona has become the Mistress of the Carnival of Light after Vanessa DeVore's untimely death at the... Somethings of the Avatar of Hamidon.

Now I'm not going to talk about women in refrigerators or anything like that, what I really call into question is if it's a smart idea to have Desdemona leading an organization as vital as the Carnival of Light?

I mean let's look at the facts: in tip missions she's appeared in, you either beat her to a pulp, she needs YOUR help (and only because you're doing your thing first and foremost while she follows you), or in general fails and not evenly epically.

While we might say that her solo career is not a sign of her leadership skills, given her AT is Master Mind, they really are!

I mean, what we've seen of her strategic skills is: "put demons (and player(s)) between myself and enemy fire, occasionally crack whip to look like I do something."
Let's also not forget that until the Underground trial, she never even took her second tier pets, nor most of her powers (though she might have been going for an RP concept build) in her primary, secondary, or pool.

Note that even during the trial she doesn't have ANY leadership auras either, which while not a sure sign a character is a good leader, does provide some mechanical game clue she knows a little more about strategy than the Zapp Brannigan Tactic.

So in the end: while her opponents aren't exactly the love child of Sun Tzu and Edward Rommel, they do possess superior numbers and raw force/power, meaning tactics and strategic thinking are a must. Can we really trust Desdemona to lead the Carnival of Light (and potentially by extension, the Resistance) effectively when she still seems to think she's playing a game of Starcraft and lives are as expendable as zerglings and hydralysics?

P.S. Also, as I think about this, I find the idea of Desdemona getting the mask to be strikingly similar to Hot Rod claiming the Matrix of Leadership. See also: an important role was given to an idiot.


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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow View Post
City of Heroes is a game about freedom of expression and variety of experiences far more so than it is about representing any one theme, topic or genre.

 

Posted

Desdemona is not the leader of the resistance. Vanessa Devore is - Desdemona is simply her host (and a much more powerful host at that).

Course, I could be wrong, but I don't think so.


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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shubbie View Post
Im very good at taking a problem and making it worse.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by AzureSkyCiel View Post
Note that even during the trial she doesn't have ANY leadership auras either, which while not a sure sign a character is a good leader, does provide some mechanical game clue she knows a little more about strategy than the Zapp Brannigan Tactic.
The two have similar taste when it comes to pants, as well.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazarillo View Post
The two have similar taste when it comes to pants, as well.
A good leader needs abilities like boldness, daring and a good velour uniform, and I'm not convinced Desdemona has ANY of those things.


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Posted

Frankly I don't care if she'll be a good leader for the resistance or not. I stopped caring about Praetoria a long time ago.


 

Posted

Aurora and Penny are also going to help her, going by what they say at the end of MoM - so some tripple strength girl power will help take down the evil patriarch of Preatoria


@Golden Girl

City of Heroes comics and artwork

 

Posted

Golden Girl, none of those people have demonstrated greater abilities besides raw psychic power, even then Aurora's power could not resist Tilman's, and I'm not sure how lucid Penny is, even then, she's had no real combat experience or leadership skill beyond serving as a contact.

And hell, Calvin Scott barely kept the Resistance together and his best tactic was "send out kids with bombs strapped to them to the hospitals! Suicide bombers are sure to send a message to Cole! Hahaha!" and he was apparently only able to lead the Resistance because DeVore was looking over his shoulder.
It makes me wonder why she let HIM lead the Resistance again and HOW has it held on for this long?


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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow View Post
City of Heroes is a game about freedom of expression and variety of experiences far more so than it is about representing any one theme, topic or genre.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by AzureSkyCiel View Post
Note that even during the trial she doesn't have ANY leadership auras either, which while not a sure sign a character is a good leader, does provide some mechanical game clue she knows a little more about strategy than the Zapp Brannigan Tactic.
If she can hit the bulls-eye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards. Checkmate.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by AzureSkyCiel View Post
Golden Girl, none of those people have demonstrated greater abilities besides raw psychic power, even then Aurora's power could not resist Tilman's, and I'm not sure how lucid Penny is, even then, she's had no real combat experience or leadership skill beyond serving as a contact.
Don't forget Metronome (Clockwork King) - He's now on our side (or rather, Penny's) in this.


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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shubbie View Post
Im very good at taking a problem and making it worse.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkSideLeague View Post
Don't forget Metronome (Clockwork King) - He's now on our side (or rather, Penny's) in this.
And he's now using Siege's repainted body after the BAF fight, according to his text during MoM.


@Golden Girl

City of Heroes comics and artwork

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombie Man View Post
My main issue with Dez is the use of just one garter belt.
I think it's ever weirder that she doesn't even have a single stocking leg to go with it


@Golden Girl

City of Heroes comics and artwork

 

Posted

@DSL and Golden Girl
>Metronome
>It's all okay now
>Implying Metronome is perfectly sane

I should have mentioned, it's not an issue against girl power, it's that Vanessa seemed to be the only person who had some semblance of both sanity and real leadership skills.
But on second thought, Noble Savage and the Palatine should be with them too, so I suddenly feel a lot more assured.
Though the strategy meetings must be hilarious.

Noble Savage: We're going to need to consider this final strike against Cole seriously, [character] what's your im-
Desdemona: I PROPOSE WE SEND WAVE AFTER WAVE OF OUR OWN PEOPLE AT THEM!
Palatine: ... So, [character] I was thinking that perhaps if we sent in the Clockwork and liberated seers under our command to infiltrate and-
Penny: Rusty glowball, green bicycle actualize radishes purple!
Metronome: Princess honey gunball doomsday FRJNPRGJMPWVMWP!!!
Noble Savage and Palatine: ... *Look between eachother*
Aurora: Umm... Well... I think you should do what's best, maybe Scott has some imput-
Calvin Scott: WE STRAP BOMBS TO TEENAGERS AND SEND THEM INTO THE HOSPITALS!
Desdemona: I LIKE THAT IDEA! LETS BE SURE TO SEND IN WAVE AFTER WAVE OF THEM!
Noble Savage: /em facepalm We're doomed...
Palatine: Soooooooo dooomed.

@Zombie Man
A point there too. I mean one garter belt doesn't make her look sexy, it makes her look like a freakin' Philistine!
Worst of all, it's ASYMMETRICAL! But she would want that, wouldn't she? I bet that's what she hopes to accomplish


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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow View Post
City of Heroes is a game about freedom of expression and variety of experiences far more so than it is about representing any one theme, topic or genre.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by AzureSkyCiel View Post
Golden Girl, none of those people have demonstrated greater abilities besides raw psychic power, even then Aurora's power could not resist Tilman's, and I'm not sure how lucid Penny is, even then, she's had no real combat experience or leadership skill beyond serving as a contact.

And hell, Calvin Scott barely kept the Resistance together and his best tactic was "send out kids with bombs strapped to them to the hospitals! Suicide bombers are sure to send a message to Cole! Hahaha!" and he was apparently only able to lead the Resistance because DeVore was looking over his shoulder.
It makes me wonder why she let HIM lead the Resistance again and HOW has it held on for this long?
well, we are forced to ask who has been a good leader? lord recluse is a tired sith retread with the central concept of having as much infighting as humanly possible for the laughably unrealistic goal of having "the strongest come out on top" despite massive internal attrition and a general lack of internal discipline. States is alternately aloof and ineffective. nemesis uses a bunch of silly and easily foil-able xanatos gambits. lady grey loses control of an entire division of her army. I mean really, who is a fit leader in coh? Part of this seems to come from a desire to not overshadow the player by making them the primary actor in the story. and part of it seems to come from the desire to keep the stories from being too complex to follow, so they are relatively simple. des's ascendance to power is part of a general character arc, she goes from being an evil lackey to a hero who takes a stand when a hero is needed. going deeper would be nice, but its not going to happen. would it be preferred that she was like blue steel and just negated actions at every step through the power of narration?

EDIt. reading you post, i dunno, palatine's primary power seems to be not screwing up as much and staying out of the way of the narrative, and not starting a costly and pointless internal war with groups with obvious shared goals when a metroid on steroids redecorates the landscape, i guess thats relatively good leadership compared to others, but that is the very definition of damning with faint praise. and noble savage is more muscle than real leadership, hes a nice guy, but what did he do exactly that showed he had leadership skills? and one is really forced to ask how effective a leader devore was, keep in mind, she tolerated having calvin scott in charge of her operations AND tolerated the various crusader contacts who seemed only too happy to murder civilians, control a drug trade and murder any number of people who are only tangentially related to cole. It could be argued that she is at least ad negligent as cole, as far as tolerating bat-nuts insane subordinates.


 

Posted

My Belief is that the Leaders of the Resistance have been revealed, but only one person will truly be able to lead Praetoria after Tyrant falls - Provost- No, President Marchand.


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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shubbie View Post
Im very good at taking a problem and making it worse.

 

Posted

ya know, having run the warden line, he might not be hal f bad. I may be forgetting stuff, but he shares the trait of "not being horrible" with palatine. Also, for those who didnt have that many problems with cole, he would probably be useful in providing continuity of the transitional government and retaining the service of the warden loyalists. Incidentally, i havent finished fw yet, but isnt belladonna vertano still around? She has experience, at the very least.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by rian_frostdrake View Post
Incidentally, i havent finished fw yet, but isnt belladonna vertano still around? She has experience, at the very least.
She doesn't feature in FW, and might still be a prisoner if loyalists handed her over to Chimera during the 1-20 GR content - although the devs seem to be preapred to chose which of the moral choices in GR are the correct ones - for example, during Katie's GR arc, there's a moral choice at the end to free her and some other Seers, or to recapture her to protect the Seer network - but in FW, it's assumed that freeing her was the choice that was made, and as it was the Ressiatnce choicie, that fits with the meta-storyline, so they might use Belladonna in the future, and just go with the Resistance option of the moral choice she's involved in, so she wouldn't have been handed over to Chimera.


@Golden Girl

City of Heroes comics and artwork

 

Posted

All of this seems to kind of imply that everyone thinks the Resistance movement at this point is being handled pretty much by The Resistance. Rather, you guys seem to think the Resistance is still being run by the Praetorians.

I'd say Primal Earth is pretty much pulling the strings at this point. And Prometheus. So the figure heads of the Resistance aren't really that key, they're more for PR than anything at this point, and even that's sort of iffy given almost all of their backgrounds.


 

Posted

It's not a pretty picture for the Praetorian Carnival...

I can just imagine Anteros (my own Carnival of War guy-) looking around at the remains of his own faction... scattered, leaderless and pretty much decimated by insane former members of their own group... and then at his Carnival of Light friends, all milling around wondering if they're going to have to trade in their masks and armor for Gothic eyeliner and hot-pants, since those seem to be the only assets Desi brings to the table... and coming to the well-nigh inevitable conclussion that they're all completely hosed.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by AzureSkyCiel View Post
Note that even during the trial she doesn't have ANY leadership auras either, which while not a sure sign a character is a good leader, does provide some mechanical game clue she knows a little more about strategy than the Zapp Brannigan Tactic.
Desdemona doesn't need your mundane Leadership powers. For you see, she has the Power of Hotpants. Watching her butt wiggle in front of you will provide the whole league with a morale bonus of some kind. Remember boys, this is what you're fighting for!


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Agent White View Post
All of this seems to kind of imply that everyone thinks the Resistance movement at this point is being handled pretty much by The Resistance. Rather, you guys seem to think the Resistance is still being run by the Praetorians.

I'd say Primal Earth is pretty much pulling the strings at this point. And Prometheus. So the figure heads of the Resistance aren't really that key, they're more for PR than anything at this point, and even that's sort of iffy given almost all of their backgrounds.

I'ld say they are key personally, they have a far more active role in their world than their primal counterparts.
The fact that des survived an attack on the hamidon underground is more than likely enough to convince the people of the carnival that she has the combat skills needed.

A leader of an organistion doesnt need to have leadership skills or be one for the team to lead them, he/she simply needs to be somebody that the people will look up to. Look at statesman, one of the most selfish heroes in the game [nobody can have this power but me since i dont trust any of you!] and its a VERY rare time when he goes off to save another hero in trouble.
Personally i'ld rather follow Manticore than statesman since he's the only one who seems to constantly be putting his life on the line to save others.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eva Destruction View Post
You've...never run UG have you?

*swears my memory is getting worse and worse* [you saying that reminded me ]

epic fail on damzs part number 57 of the week


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Posted

It's a no win situation really for the writers of the stories.

To much making any NPC look great, and people start saying "They're made out to be better than MY character"

To much writing added to the script and it becomes "OMG! Let it end! I can't take all this content being repeated at me!"

Not to mention no matter which way they go withthe plot line there will be "OMG! It didn't go the way I wanted and now I hate it!"

We've seen a lot of that last one.

What may help, is if they started back up the CoH comic and made it part of continuity. But then, we also have the same problems as comics have. New writers changing things up.

If the devs said "Look, she's a great leader even if the game mechanics dont show it" people will be "That spoon feeds it and thus is wrong."

Best bet. Use your imagination to fill in the gaps. If you lack an imagination. Try harder? >_>;;


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