The Leadership of Desdemona (Warning: Spoiler Heavy)
By
Agent White,
Posted on: 2011-11-27 11:13 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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Oh yeah, she looks great, but that's pretty much all she has going for her.
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Originally Posted by BrandX
To much making any NPC look great, and people start saying "They're made out to be better than MY character"
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Eva Destruction AR/Fire/Munitions Blaster
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Really? I never saw the appeal in her |
Originally Posted by Eva Destruction
Oh yeah, she looks great, but that's pretty much all she has going for her.
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But you knew that's not what I meant.Any time they have a NPC do ANYTHING awesome, even if it's just for awesome story reasons, players begin saying Mary Sue!
Show how awesome a NPC is suppossed to be, so they can have a good story and it's "They're more awesome than my character and that's not fair, as this should be all about me!"
Of course, never mind as I've mentioned many times, taking on a boss threat level enemy never did seem like a "Look at me I'm mighty!" type of deal. Taking on actual AVs/Heroes! Now that's "I'm an equal!"
Because well, hey, usually those signature NPCs require a team for most
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
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Any time they tell us how awesome an NPC is even though the NPC is not actually awesome players begin saying Mary Sue, because informed ability is a common Mary Sue trait.|
Originally Posted by BrandX
Any time they have a NPC do ANYTHING awesome, even if it's just for awesome story reasons, players begin saying Mary Sue!
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When you show that an NPC is awesome while still being a well-realized character, you get a Ghost Widow. When you tell us they're awesome and nothing more, you get a Blue Steel. When you tell us they're awesome over and over, and that everyone thinks so, and that even our characters think so, players start saying Mary Sue.
Eva Destruction AR/Fire/Munitions Blaster
Darkfire Avenger DM/SD/Body Scrapper
Arc ID#161629 Freaks, Geeks, and Men in Black
Arc ID#431270 Until the End of the World
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I believe the video of Statesman throwing a rikti mothership showed just how powerful Statesman is, showed it just once, and now it's the go to "Statesman is MAry Sue"
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Originally Posted by Eva Destruction
Any time they tell us how awesome an NPC is even though the NPC is not actually awesome players begin saying Mary Sue, because informed ability is a common Mary Sue trait.
When you show that an NPC is awesome while still being a well-realized character, you get a Ghost Widow. When you tell us they're awesome and nothing more, you get a Blue Steel. When you tell us they're awesome over and over, and that everyone thinks so, and that even our characters think so, players start saying Mary Sue. |
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
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Well, Blue Steel will be featuring in the new DA content, so we might learn more about him there - like maybe he's an Incarnate? |
Originally Posted by Eva Destruction
When you tell us they're awesome and nothing more, you get a Blue Steel.
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
Well I think that's just one of the problems with the format of the game. The only time we really see characters is via missions, and in that they're usually either A) Objectives (beat up/save Hero/Villain X) or B) NPC Tagalongs that might spout a little dialogue or C) Taskforce contacts (All the signature TFs)
None of those is conducive to developing characters in a way that players can get attached to.
I think this is partially why we're seeing the SSAs and the use of more cut scenes as a way to illustrate these characters through how they get to interact with others instead of simply being these static objects or drones we see in missions.
We never seem them when they're not 'on the clock' as it were, so we only get to see them in quick snapshots that are more about them being set pieces.
Edit: I'll agree with Eva though, she sums it up well. Ghost Widow is a pretty good example, I think because she has a number of missions that involve her back story and actually involve her. A problem with so much of the Freedom Phalanx is they're all pretty background characters, their task forces don't even involve then, except maybe as a tangent (ex: Citadel's 'children')
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True enough. And I know when I play redside, the level 15ish arc that involves rescuing Ghost Widow is one of my favorite arcs and one of those arcs I never want to miss.|
Originally Posted by Agent White
Well I think that's just one of the problems with the format of the game. The only time we really see characters is via missions, and in that they're usually either A) Objectives (beat up/save Hero/Villain X) or B) NPC Tagalongs that might spout a little dialogue or C) Taskforce contacts (All the signature TFs)
None of those is conducive to developing characters in a way that players can get attached to. I think this is partially why we're seeing the SSAs and the use of more cut scenes as a way to illustrate these characters through how they get to interact with others instead of simply being these static objects or drones we see in missions. We never seem them when they're not 'on the clock' as it were, so we only get to see them in quick snapshots that are more about them being set pieces. Edit: I'll agree with Eva though, she sums it up well. Ghost Widow is a pretty good example, I think because she has a number of missions that involve her back story and actually involve her. A problem with so much of the Freedom Phalanx is they're all pretty background characters, their task forces don't even involve then, except maybe as a tangent (ex: Citadel's 'children') |
Now I'm curious, as I havent made a redsider in a long while, if that stroy arc was gotten rid of in the new starting zone, or remains because you didnt obtain the arc untill after you left the zone if memory serves.
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
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It's still there, I recently ran it on one of my villains.|
Originally Posted by BrandX
True enough. And I know when I play redside, the level 15ish arc that involves rescuing Ghost Widow is one of my favorite arcs and one of those arcs I never want to miss.
Now I'm curious, as I havent made a redsider in a long while, if that stroy arc was gotten rid of in the new starting zone, or remains because you didnt obtain the arc untill after you left the zone if memory serves. |
But yeah, I really wouldn't mind more Arcs like that that go into the backstory of characters and flesh them out. For Ghost Widow it was kind of an 'origin story', but you could probably do other kinds that involve personal things to characters.
As someone in the beta forums put it, the Resistance leadership is now in the hands of:
- someone whose judgement is so poor she actually thought Mother Cleavage (sic) was a force for good
- someone who has pretended to be off her rocker for so long she is now, actually, off her rocker
- someone who can't figure out how pants work
Not feeling the happiness here, nope.
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"And I say now these kittens, they do not get trained/As we did in the days when Victoria reigned!" -- T. S. Eliot, "Gus, the Theatre Cat"
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I believe the appropriate response is "Incarnates are like Blue Steel."
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Well, Blue Steel will be featuring in the new DA content, so we might learn more about him there - like maybe he's an Incarnate?
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Plus, one of these is such an obvious Loyalist mole.
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Originally Posted by Venture
As someone in the beta forums put it, the Resistance leadership is now in the hands of:
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Thought for the day:
"Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment."
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I'm pretty sure the loyalists know how to wear pants.
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Originally Posted by Slaunyeh
Plus, one of these is such an obvious Loyalist mole.
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That only rules out Captain Hotpants (and even then, it could be a clever ruse!)
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Originally Posted by Agent White
I'm pretty sure the loyalists know how to wear pants.
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Thought for the day:
"Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment."
=][=
The 'resistance' isn't and has never been a single united group. DeVore led the CoL, but even that group is shown to have splintered in the First Ward missions. Calvin Scott is the 'official' face of the resistance but doesn't seem to have much real control over his subordinates (would he really condone Wardog's plan to murder the entire population of Nova Praetoria just to make a point?). Mr. Yin, though he doesn't wear a resistance nametag, has probably been it's smartest leader by quietly trying to form the syndicate into a real force of opposition. But he's got plenty of other syndicate bosses who really just want to get back to shady business dealing. Penelope Yin may be a powerful psychic who's not really as insane as she seems (her dialog can be understood quite well once you figure out her code), but she is still a prisoner.
Primal Incarnates have accomplished more to damage the Cole regime in three battles (BAF, Lambda, and Keyes; I don't include UG since that was a bungled rescue attempt combined with gathering some information that is yet to be spread to the general population) than the homegrown resistance ever managed.
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@Inquisitor
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Actually I think the last one is basically bull. We get it, you don't like her costume. It's a world of superheroes, they were there outfits how they want.|
Originally Posted by Venture
As someone in the beta forums put it, the Resistance leadership is now in the hands of:
Not feeling the happiness here, nope. |
It's like complaining about Punky Brewster wearing two different color shoes.
She could of worn the same shoes, but it wasn't her style. Not to mention the one bandana she wore on one leg.
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
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Originally Posted by AzureSkyCiel
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@Zombie Man A point there too. I mean one garter belt doesn't make her look sexy, it makes her look like a freakin' Philistine! Worst of all, it's ASYMMETRICAL! But she would want that, wouldn't she? I bet that's what she hopes to accomplish  |
All I could think about is Death the Kid hehehe....
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Yes, yes he would. Calvin Scott is entirely an 'end justifies the means' kind of psychopath.
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Originally Posted by Mr_Morbid
Calvin Scott is the 'official' face of the resistance but doesn't seem to have much real control over his subordinates (would he really condone Wardog's plan to murder the entire population of Nova Praetoria just to make a point?).
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Admittedly, yes. Besides, I already pointed out that the real problem with Desdemona isn't her fashion sense, it's that her only experience with leadership can be inferred that she uses demons as highly expendable soldiers with little concern for their well-being, wellfare, or personal motivations so long as they soak up hits for her.|
Originally Posted by BrandX
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It's like complaining about Punky Brewster wearing two different color shoes. She could of worn the same shoes, but it wasn't her style. Not to mention the one bandana she wore on one leg. |
(Do you really imagine her bandaging up her Demon Prince after a fight and cooing him softly and promising him the hurting will stop soon while slipping him some kind of abyssal morphine? Yeah, me neither.)
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Originally Posted by Mr_Morbid
The 'resistance' isn't and has never been a single united group. DeVore led the CoL, but even that group is shown to have splintered in the First Ward missions. Calvin Scott is the 'official' face of the resistance but doesn't seem to have much real control over his subordinates (would he really condone Wardog's plan to murder the entire population of Nova Praetoria just to make a point?). Mr. Yin, though he doesn't wear a resistance nametag, has probably been it's smartest leader by quietly trying to form the syndicate into a real force of opposition. But he's got plenty of other syndicate bosses who really just want to get back to shady business dealing. Penelope Yin may be a powerful psychic who's not really as insane as she seems (her dialog can be understood quite well once you figure out her code), but she is still a prisoner.
Primal Incarnates have accomplished more to damage the Cole regime in three battles (BAF, Lambda, and Keyes; I don't include UG since that was a bungled rescue attempt combined with gathering some information that is yet to be spread to the general population) than the homegrown resistance ever managed. |
Okay, so now we have three leaders on the CoL/Resistances side that are not horrible/are actually competent, and two of them are used to working with unruly and idiot members. Possibly four if Belladonna Vetrano is not as insane as Calvin Scott.
Though this also assumes Wu Yin would be sane after his stay in the BAF/not dead and assumes he was captured to begin with.
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
City of Heroes is a game about freedom of expression and variety of experiences far more so than it is about representing any one theme, topic or genre.
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I think having an imperfect leader is better for the sake of plot. We know Desdemona isn't perfect and probably not adapt for leading the Resistance, she doesn't particularly want to do it either, but she's all they have. At least she has advisers and the like to help her out.
Regarding tip missions in where you beat her up, just consider it that she was levelling at the same time your character was levelling.
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brand putts it into the cup, eagle.i'm mixed on the comic, the stories were just ok(smoke and mirrors excepted) but it did seem to be another way to get info out there.