What are you expecting for a solo Incarnate path?
By
Ad Astra,
Posted on: 2011-11-17 20:47 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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If you're on a regular-sized team with the difficulty at an appropriate level it can be hard as well, since when things go south they tend to do so very quickly. On a league though, everybody is buffed to the point of tank-like survivability and blaster-level damage. Things don't get the opportunity to go south. That is why I think the BAF cluster-**** is one of the most boring pieces of content in the game. It's also why it's farmed so much.|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
This is actually why I maintain that the solo game is almost always harder than the team game in terms of straight-up difficulty - because in the team game, there's usually someone else to do your job for you.
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| To be fair, while easier, the team game is significantly more work, as it involves herding cats, much waiting for teams to assemble and dealing with the above-mentioned leechers. |
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To the contrary, little one, there will be an end to the trials - an end to their being an ill conceived impediment to whatever progress the solo players seek. My guess is that solo able iContent will have no end either - it is not a 1 time quik fix to a glaring omission of content for vital segment of this community.|
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
You do know that the Trials are the core endgame content and are never going to end, don't you?
 We've already got 4 that are live, 2 more in beta, 1 more coming with the next Issue, strong hints of an 8th one for fighting Tyrant, and then there's ther whole Coming Storm to deal with - the endgame system has no end, so there's no end to the Trials. They will be - but because they're easier to do than the Trials, they'll give slower progress than the the Trials. The Trials take longer to start, need more organization, and have harder enemies than solo content - so they give the best rewards. |
Get over it, GG, and admit the trials are not very good; are not the ultimate creative effort of the dev staff & are definitely not for everyone.
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That is ultimately a subjective opinion. Some people like trials, some people don't. It would be a very odd world if everyone was the same.
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Originally Posted by Fritzy
To the contrary, little one, there will be an end to the trials - an end to their being an ill conceived impediment to whatever progress the solo players seek. My guess is that solo able iContent will have no end either - it is not a 1 time quik fix to a glaring omission of content for vital segment of this community.
Get over it, GG, and admit the trials are not very good; are not the ultimate creative effort of the dev staff & are definitely not for everyone. |
"I accidently killed Synapse, do we need to restart the mission?" - The Oldest One on Lord Recluses Strike Force
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Sure - they'll get faster progress than the current solo path, but still slower than the main Incarnate path of the Trials - the core endgame content gives the best rewards.|
Originally Posted by Fritzy
To the contrary, little one, there will be an end to the trials - an end to their being an ill conceived impediment to whatever progress the solo players seek.
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| My guess is that solo able iContent will have no end either - it is not a 1 time quik fix to a glaring omission of content for vital segment of this community. |
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| Get over it, GG, and admit the trials are not very good; are not the ultimate creative effort of the dev staff & are definitely not for everyone. |
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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That, and the fact they said they "love" the Team-Up-Teleported, was the only downer in the last UStream. |
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Actually, according to Positron, they're some of the favorite content for the devs to make - they enjoy making them
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This is a song about a super hero named Tony. Its called Tony's theme.
Jagged Reged: 23/01/04
They also "loved" the CoT makeover, and they obviously "love" Praetoria, so at this point I'd suggest the devs immediately scrap any idea they "love."
Eva Destruction AR/Fire/Munitions Blaster
Darkfire Avenger DM/SD/Body Scrapper
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Why would they do that? Don't forget, you insisted with every fiber of your being that "They've shown nothing but contempt for soloists wanting incarnate content that [you] expect nothing to substantially change".
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Originally Posted by Fritzy
To the contrary, little one, there will be an end to the trials - an end to their being an ill conceived impediment to whatever progress the solo players seek. My guess is that solo able iContent will have no end either - it is not a 1 time quik fix to a glaring omission of content for vital segment of this community.
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Both of those have improved the game.|
Originally Posted by Eva Destruction
They also "loved" the CoT makeover, and they obviously "love" Praetoria, so at this point I'd suggest the devs immediately scrap any idea they "love."
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The CoT revamp wasn't quite right at first, but they took onboard our feedback and gave all the levels and ranks the hidden faces and robe pieces.
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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Aaaaaaactually if they get the enhancement in that allows you to run instances while que'd you COULD actually run missions. |
Originally Posted by docbuzzard
I could actually see DA becoming the new assembly point for trials since you won't have to just stand around in a league waiting for it to fill. You could actually street sweep and do something. While missions won't be an option, at least you can do something which has a return.
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CoT? Questionable at best. There wasn't any story arcs or anything else that was added at same time. It was a costume change. . . . ooookay? For folks who love costumes sure. For those that don't or simply don't care that much about costumes, it really didn't amount to much.|
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Both of those have improved the game.
The CoT revamp wasn't quite right at first, but they took onboard our feedback and gave all the levels and ranks the hidden faces and robe pieces. |
Praetoria is so great that everyone asked for them to allow folks to start the game as hero or villain WITHOUT using Praetoria . . . which was Praetoria's original point/advantage.
Also the morality system was added in and available via tips, which didn't not need Praetoria to be built for them to get said system in game. The could have done that without spending all that time on an expansion which had almost no effect on their bottom line. The morality system in Pretoria has bubkiss to do with whether you enter Primal Earth as a hero or villain. The FREE tip/alignment system has more control over whether you can switch sides than Praetoria does.
The only thing the Grey Zone gave us was a setting for the trials . . . which I'd argue they could have done the trials without needing Praetoria.
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So who's doing it for the guy doing it for you, then? |
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
This is actually why I maintain that the solo game is almost always harder than the team game in terms of straight-up difficulty - because in the team game, there's usually someone else to do your job for you.
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Regardless of whether raids are actually harder than regular content, I don't think there should be any question that they are designed and intended to be harder.
Sure, you allow (and require) more people in, thus everyone is buffed to near-invulnerabilty...which is countered by instant death and irresistable damage, not to mention ultra mezzing and super debuffing. You do huge amounts of damage...to targets who can take it.
On top of this, there are tactical 'gimmicks' that punish you for not paying attention to the environment, or to the red announcements.
Most regular content is straight up tank and spank or zerg for a full team.
Trials are intended for people who like trial stuff: watching timers, maneuvering around death traps, pulling enemies to specific locations, and the like.
Solo content should have a wide variety of difficulties, since it has to accomodate everyone from Captain Empty Alpha Slot up to Doctor Triple Shifted.
I suspect much of it will be built around the Incarnate Abilities themselves. A Dev cannot know, when designing content, whether a player is bringing a Claws/Invuln or a Rad/Elec to the party. But they can design content around the assumption you have Judgement, because everyone can get it (eventually).
Story Arcs I created:
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Someone's obviously doing something to move the team/league along. However, pick almost any team or league not assembled from people who had to sign up ahead of time and I would bet you dollars to doughnuts it's a few people carrying the team, the great majority just tagging along and at least a few not contributing much of anything at all. That's just the nature of the beast.|
Originally Posted by Eric Nelson
So who's doing it for the guy doing it for you, then?
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Just for reference, I ran a Bastion TF earlier today, and they were happy to have a Brute on the team with the presumption I'd be tanking. Considering this is an Energy Aura Brute for whom I haven't had enough slots to emphasise defence OR offence, that wasn't going to happen, and the team didn't really need me anyway. I could have fallen asleep and they'd have run the TF just fine without me. As a point of fact, I had to leave for a few minutes mid-mission and they went ahead just fine without me and another person on the team who was AFK over something about a furnace.
As a point of fact, I can only recall ONE team where my presence was expressly, obviously necessary pretty much as far back as I can think, and that was a team where I was the only melee - an Axe/Shield Brute - with the other members either very low level or having not built for offence, to the point where I essentially HAD to be present for anything to get killed and often so that none of us bit the dust. Granted, my memory isn't as clear as it used to be, so at most I'm looking back two or three years, but even so - that's two or three years and all of ONE team where my presence was even relevant.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
Someone's obviously doing something to move the team/league along. However, pick almost any team or league not assembled from people who had to sign up ahead of time and I would bet you dollars to doughnuts it's a few people carrying the team, the great majority just tagging along and at least a few not contributing much of anything at all. That's just the nature of the beast.
Just for reference, I ran a Bastion TF earlier today, and they were happy to have a Brute on the team with the presumption I'd be tanking. Considering this is an Energy Aura Brute for whom I haven't had enough slots to emphasise defence OR offence, that wasn't going to happen, and the team didn't really need me anyway. I could have fallen asleep and they'd have run the TF just fine without me. As a point of fact, I had to leave for a few minutes mid-mission and they went ahead just fine without me and another person on the team who was AFK over something about a furnace. As a point of fact, I can only recall ONE team where my presence was expressly, obviously necessary pretty much as far back as I can think, and that was a team where I was the only melee - an Axe/Shield Brute - with the other members either very low level or having not built for offence, to the point where I essentially HAD to be present for anything to get killed and often so that none of us bit the dust. Granted, my memory isn't as clear as it used to be, so at most I'm looking back two or three years, but even so - that's two or three years and all of ONE team where my presence was even relevant. |
It's interesting that my experience with this game varies so much from yours, Sam. However, I tend to play the kind of toons that are very noticeable when they're absent, SOA's being my favorite AT to date.
As far as the devs 'loving' their itrials... Find something else to love doing. Find another way to get reinvested in the game. Find whatever made you look at Dark Astoria and use that same focus on the Shadow Shard redside, use that focus on doing something that MATTERS with the hazard zones. BUILD hazard zones for redside, ffs. It's only been... oh...FIVE YEARS since any meaningful new environmental content was added to redside, if you discount the Mercy Makeover... which actually just moved a few NPC's around and didn't really make anything over.
Stop trying to force this raid progression on a playerbase that largely doesn't seem to want it. Your freems, the new people you're trying to attract here, don't have access to it anyway, and the way they're discussed in game they probably aren't going to want to. The player being forced into it as the only form of meaningful progression don't LIKE it. It's an insulting slap in the face after seven years of focus on team and solo content. What was the huge selling point for this game? EVERYONE CAN SOLO. What is it now, I wonder.
Stand UP.
FIGHT BACK!
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This. Oh yes, this.
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Originally Posted by Eva Destruction
They also "loved" the CoT makeover, and they obviously "love" Praetoria, so at this point I'd suggest the devs immediately scrap any idea they "love."
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Stand UP.
FIGHT BACK!
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So, since they also claim to "love" the game, you think they should scrap it? |
Originally Posted by Eva Destruction
They also "loved" the CoT makeover, and they obviously "love" Praetoria, so at this point I'd suggest the devs immediately scrap any idea they "love."
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Let's Dance!
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Is that the same as a normal slap in the face, or worse?
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Originally Posted by King_Moloch
It's an insulting slap in the face
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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Hmmm.. more like a 'here's a rancid beef sandwich, let me just pull down your pants and rub the dead reeking decay into your skin, and then backhand you with broken glass embedded in my knuckles' kind of thing. |
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Is that the same as a normal slap in the face, or worse?
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It's pretty shady to pull a switch on the playerbase that's remained staunch and loyal throughout the frankly absurd ups and downs this game has undergone over the years. At least one of that magnitude. While I think the Itrials were probably inevitable, the shady, underhanded fashion they gated all the incarnate progression behind it was just an insult. The excuse 'well, we never imagined anyone would want to TEAM or SOLO their way through the incarnate path' holds absolutely no water with me. That should always, always be priority number one with this game, it's the selling point that has kept people coming back to the game for years.
Stand UP.
FIGHT BACK!
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What was shady or underhand about it?
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Originally Posted by King_Moloch
the shady, underhanded fashion they gated all the incarnate progression behind it
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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A) The primary "selling point" for this game is customization. Virtually the only time I see CoH mentioned outside of new release reviews is to comment that some new MMO has a bunch of customization, but nowhere near the versatility of CoH had even at its launch. (But that's not really important, and subject to opinion.)|
Originally Posted by King_Moloch
The excuse 'well, we never imagined anyone would want to TEAM or SOLO their way through the incarnate path' holds absolutely no water with me. That should always, always be priority number one with this game, it's the selling point that has kept people coming back to the game for years.
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B) The lack of raids and endgame were both heavily cited as reasons former players quit. I'm not going to say it was a brilliant idea to tie them both together the way they did, but they brought two oft requested features in at the same time. It made some people extraordinarily happy, but it pissed others off, as does every change in the game. I say this with no malice: the decision to tie raids to the endgame was apparently your turn to be annoyed.
They're giving you a solo path approximately one year (possibly a little less, even)--just two issue releases--after the raid system was introduced (Issue 20, April 2011). I don't think that's a horrible amount of time to wait for a feature... but it also didn't bother me very much, and I'll likely continue mostly with raids once I get the badges for the new Dark Astoria content.
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Originally Posted by Nethergoat
it's NEVER too late to pad your /ignore list!
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Is it really worth it to rail against the trial system? If you don't like it, don't play it. They're releasing non-trial content now for everyone that doesn't want to deal with them, venting such vitriol does nothing except maybe make you feel a little better when someone head nods.
This is how the designers have set up end game content. Most of the problems with it are simply that there's not enough of it yet, which is being alleviated with a wider variety of trials and the new non-trial options, which we're told will also be expanded with further new zones and even Incarnate additions to older zones.
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I suppose that it really isn't worth it, when you get down to it. I don't think the problem with it is that there isn't enough of it. The problem is that they gated the only progression behind it and then played dumb about the bait and switch tactic. I know, I know, we have an obligation to pretend that's not what happened, but like GR, it really is. |
Originally Posted by Agent White
Is it really worth it to rail against the trial system? If you don't like it, don't play it. They're releasing non-trial content now for everyone that doesn't want to deal with them, venting such vitriol does nothing except maybe make you feel a little better when someone head nods.
This is how the designers have set up end game content. Most of the problems with it are simply that there's not enough of it yet, which is being alleviated with a wider variety of trials and the new non-trial options, which we're told will also be expanded with further new zones and even Incarnate additions to older zones. |
The only reason there IS alternate progression is that the pissed off 'minority' I guess we're pretending it is now, wouldn't shut up about it. And to the above guy that said the customization was this game's selling point I have to agree that it is TOO. Those two things together are what keep me and the few people I know still playing this game playing it at all.
As for the future, from this point I'm pretty sure they'll be certain to include a meager offering thrown together at the last minute to placate 'those people' in their corner over there that don't appreciate being scammed.
Stand UP.
FIGHT BACK!
The scam...a slap to the face I tell you. :P
Stand UP.
FIGHT BACK!