If you could put an end to "Lol Stalkers" what would you do?
By
Blackleviathan,
Posted on: 2011-11-15 19:03 in Stalkers
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Curiosity however. Why do you want for hide to become a clicky?
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Originally Posted by Premonitions
I'm a bit disappointed that they seem to just be making Stalkers more Scrappery but that's probably just because I thought long and hard about my idea and would really like it brought to light.
Okay, try this on for size: 1: Every Secondary gets it's own Stealth power (but not a "hide", perse) in hide's place, or as the tier2 for some sets.(Nin, dark and energy obviously get a tier 1 stealth right out the gate, the others.. maybe?) with an added control or debuff when stealth/invis suppressed in combat. The idea being that when "discovered" you spring a trap/do something to distract. 2: Inherent Click Hide has a long duration(again, a bit longer than hasten) and a quick re-hide aspect. Meaning, You pop your inherent clickable hide power, then take out a mob, maybe three or four seconds after you stop getting hit/hitting dudes you become hidden again and can go after the next mob. if you move quickly you should be able to take out three mobs in your average mission before you have to pop hide again, though at base levels it probably hasn't recharged by then. And again, it's slottable and can be affected by global recharge bonuses to where it can be perma'd on levels similar to Hasten's ability to be made perma. |
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If a person turns down an idea, he turns down an opportunity to evolve himself
In addition to the current changes, make AS deal a "cripple" debuff that inflicts -30% res and -200% regen that does not stack from same caster. This would give them a secondary role as hard target killers and make stalkers a viable alternative to debuffers (in the same way that tankers can partially compensate for defensive buffs).
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I agree, the more I look at these changes are paper I do not think its going to be enough. Essentially what we need is for our single target damage to be equivalent to aoe in terms of killing power. What I see with the changes though is it makes stalkers closer to how brutes are in the early levels. Most brutes get a hard hitting attack like KO blow or Seismic Smash. But that does not help us in the end game. I still think we to revist the scaling AS idea that was tested a few issues back, it just does not need to be as powerful as before though. Maybe take off 5% of an AV's health instead of 9% it was doing.
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Originally Posted by Tater Todd
How do you guys feel about the possible stalker changes? I think we still need our inherents to be inherent.
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The concept was to make it so when the stalker is out of hide they will build focus sort of like street justice...and thus be able to use their powers more effectively and get more damage out of things....
The assassin strike will act like a normal attack out of hide....effects will still work the same way but with additions.
Also i hate click powers...changing anything to a click power spoils the game play....sorry i would rather click an attack or be able to use an inspiration then being forced to click something...already have a click hasten, a click heal, and a click protection from holds....like anyone needs to make hide a click power.
Toggles make the hide superior to all other games in that respect....look at games like jade dynasty...or Aion....you click for 30 seconds of hide....wow...now everyone always knows where you are...as for hiding....you are too busy having to click alot...thus you cant stay hidden for long to do much....and it becomes more of a joke power....
Dont even get me started with Aion....any game with the whopping 30 second flight time...then you fall like stone....or a game you can jump in place and kill yourelf is broken...and when the only way is to make a ridiculing video to get the designer to fix something....you know there are too many issues.
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Man I missed out on that Beta! Was the 9% really that overpowered compared to all the aoe swirling death builds out there?
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Originally Posted by EvilRyu
I agree, the more I look at these changes are paper I do not think its going to be enough. Essentially what we need is for our single target damage to be equivalent to aoe in terms of killing power. What I see with the changes though is it makes stalkers closer to how brutes are in the early levels. Most brutes get a hard hitting attack like KO blow or Seismic Smash. But that does not help us in the end game. I still think we to revist the scaling AS idea that was tested a few issues back, it just does not need to be as powerful as before though. Maybe take off 5% of an AV's health instead of 9% it was doing.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Tater Todd
Man I missed out on that Beta! Was the 9% really that overpowered compared to all the aoe swirling death builds out there?
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Well look at it this way one AS dealt 9% of the AV's total health.
2 would be 18, 3 brings it up to 27 etc.
now lets look at 8
8 AS is 72% of the Av's health
not even a team focused on buffs/debuff's and getting the Av's res and regen to the debuff cap, while damage capping themselves could take AV's down that fast.
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Ah, he was speaking of dmg terms "derp" yeah 9 is crazy high. 5 or 6 sounds reasonable to me as well. I hope the devs are open to other solutions if the Assassin's Focus system doesn't work.
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Originally Posted by DMystic
Well look at it this way one AS dealt 9% of the AV's total health.
2 would be 18, 3 brings it up to 27 etc. now lets look at 8 8 AS is 72% of the Av's health not even a team focused on buffs/debuff's and getting the Av's res and regen to the debuff cap, while damage capping themselves could take AV's down that fast. |
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Make it -5% of an AV's Current HP, rather than their Max HP, and you'll have a sliding scale which will balance itself. Even *if* by miracle of circumstance, you were able to get 8 Stalkers to simultaneously hit an AV with 8 Assassin Strikes ... that's only -40% from *Current HP* ... and thanks to Zeno's Paradox every time a team of Stalkers does that, the effectiveness of their Assassin Strike damage throughput is reduced in absolute number terms as HP Remaining decreases.|
Originally Posted by DMystic
Well look at it this way one AS dealt 9% of the AV's total health.
2 would be 18, 3 brings it up to 27 etc. now lets look at 8 8 AS is 72% of the Av's health not even a team focused on buffs/debuff's and getting the Av's res and regen to the debuff cap, while damage capping themselves could take AV's down that fast. |
100 - 40% = 60 remaining (ie. -40)
60 - 40% = 36 remaining (ie. -24)
36 - 40% = 22.6 remaining (ie. -14.4)
There would, of course, come an inflection point, where against an AV, an Assassin Strike doesn't do as much damage as, say ... a straightforward, mainline attack which does a fixed amount of damage (like basically every other player attack power in the game), if using this method. Needless to say, by the time that point is reached, the element of "surprise" has doubtless worn off ...
It's the end. But the moment has been prepared for ...
I like the ideas read on the first couple pages, especially the crits return to hide with the current inherent of teams=more crits.
Not sure if it's been said in the aforementioned text, but what about having hidden lead to a damage multiplier for huge damage burst potential?
Non-hidden status would be normal multiplier, hide would add maybe a damage increase, or just add to +dmg% while hidden like an inspiration would. A large but balanced increase.
In PvE only, of course.
Edit: I just read the I22 possible change log... the proposed updates for stalkers is more than enough to keep me interested.
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Yeah, I like the return to hide on crit as well.
My own thing though:
AS actually assassinates boss level and lower. For EB, AVs and Heroes, return (from beta) the percentage health assassin strike along with resistance to this effect. This should help with the abuse by multiple stalkers.
QoL, make placate cast time 1 sec or lower, make recharge 45s. This should boost dps a bit.
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How about when an Incarnate Stalker uses Judgment while hidden, it adds the exact same Assassin's Strike bonus to each initial hit of each affected foe?
I've never gotten a stalker to level 50, yet...
I'm a bit disappointed that they seem to just be making Stalkers more Scrappery but that's probably just because I thought long and hard about my idea and would really like it brought to light.
The rest though I think is VERY VERY interesting ideas, almost so interesting that you should kinda PM a dev of these changes, even though I realise they'd likely turn down the idea!
Auto maybe. Click? no.
dear god no.
1: Every Secondary gets it's own Stealth power (but not a "hide", perse) in hide's place, or as the tier2 for some sets.(Nin, dark and energy obviously get a tier 1 stealth right out the gate, the others.. maybe?) with an added control or debuff when stealth/invis suppressed in combat. The idea being that when "discovered" you spring a trap/do something to distract.
2: Inherent Click Hide has a long duration(again, a bit longer than hasten) and a quick re-hide aspect. Meaning, You pop your inherent clickable hide power, then take out a mob, maybe three or four seconds after you stop getting hit/hitting dudes you become hidden again and can go after the next mob. if you move quickly you should be able to take out three mobs in your average mission before you have to pop hide again, though at base levels it probably hasn't recharged by then. And again, it's slottable and can be affected by global recharge bonuses to where it can be perma'd on levels similar to Hasten's ability to be made perma.
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