Purchasable combat pets! "Pay us to win!" or acceptable?
By
3dent,
Posted on: 2011-11-01 24:23 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
Honestly I'm perfectly fine with them adding stuff like temp powers to the store.
I'm ok with people being able to buy things that I can get by investing a bit of game time.
What I'm not okay with is people being able to buy things that there's no way to earn access too by non-monetary means. That's less of an issue really with CoH F2P, given the monthly stipend. Even if I can't get some stuff in-game, I can just save up my earned points and buy it at essentially no extra cost.
@Oathbound & @Oathbound Too
How is this different than the summon Statesman power I have from tier 9? He took out the elite boss is Who Will Die #2 pretty much by himself.
And like others have said...how is this winning and what are the prizes? It's not like that Warwolf could take out one of the AVs in a trial, or any AV for that matter. And in PvP? I know "lol pvp" but as someone else said, you can get this, and other pets over and over again.
What do we win?
No one pays attention to me, cause I listen to the voices in my head.
80 points, I bought it.
It's a dollar. Big whoop, wanna fight about it?
Also...is there something I don't know about Enhancement Boosters? Granted I only applied a few of them to a couple IOs...and the increase was minimal, can they infinitely stack or something?
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They can be stacked 5 times. Each one is a 5% increase in the base enhancement value of the boosted enhancer, so 5 of them makes the enhancer 125% of its base value. Done with careful thought about what to boost, that's not an inconsiderable benefit. It changes, for example, a level 50 common IO from Schedule A from 42.4% to 53% enhancement. That takes you from needing three to hit (and exceed) the ED softcap on something to only needing two.
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Originally Posted by Mr. DJ
Also...is there something I don't know about Enhancement Boosters? Granted I only applied a few of them to a couple IOs...and the increase was minimal, can they infinitely stack or something?
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Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
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Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
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i agree that buying it is kinda stupid since its earnable in game, but i do support the fact that it is bringing in revenue from those f2p players
i also agree that the war wolf from the whistle is not very strong and easy to die so its a good choice for purchase on the market, shivans and nukes would prolly be heavily nerfed if they were placed on the market compared to the in game earnable versions
If someone wants to buy it I'm not seeing the problem.
But it's MY sadistic mechanical monster and I'm here to make sure it knows it. - Girl Genius
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PPD Backup Radio at lv50:|
Originally Posted by 3dent
Warwolf Whistle. 80 points/5 uses. No reward token gate (which at least does limit the issue to a minority of the overall game population). Here to stay. What's next? Shivans? HVAS?
As everyone knows, temp pets can do wonders for squishie survivability solo, and thus are quite useful. So, I'm not quite convinced this isn't too good an offering for a rm-purchasable power. Unless Backup Radio (unlimited and rm-free) does summon a better pets on average (I really didn't check BU radio seriously yet, so I don't know.) |
30% Res to S/L/E regardless of level
Base Hitpoints: 1070.90
Laser Burst:
Average Damage:58.72; Damage Per Activation Time:32.09; Damage Per Cast Cycle:7.50; Activation Time:1.83s; Recharge Time:6.00s
Laser Spray:
Average Damage:49.83; Damage Per Activation Time:12.88; Damage Per Cast Cycle:3.14; Activation Time:3.87s; Recharge Time:12.00s
Energy Punch:
Average Damage:55.61; Damage Per Activation Time:97.56; Damage Per Cast Cycle:12.17; Activation Time:0.57s; Recharge Time:4.00s
Bonesmasher:
Average Damage:55.61; Damage Per Activation Time:37.07; Damage Per Cast Cycle:10.11; Activation Time:1.50s; Recharge Time:4.00s
Warwolf at lv50: bought from Paragon Market
Hitpoints: 1312.34
35% Res to S/L; 25% Res to E/N/F/C/T/P regardless of level
Claw Swipe:
Average Damage:508.89 Damage Per Activation Time:759.53 Damage Per Cast Cycle:138.66 Activation Time:0.67s Recharge Time:3.00s
Hurl:
Average Damage:632.25 Damage Per Activation Time:165.08 Damage Per Cast Cycle:71.60 Activation Time:3.83s Recharge Time:5.00s
This doesn't look horrible to me at face value...but I'm not a numbers expert.
The only thing the haters are accomplishing with these complaints is convincing new players that these temp powers are uber and a definite must buy if only to see for themselves what the fuss is all about.
End result, the store sells a lot more temp powers, the devs are convinced it's a success and they add more powers to the market to be sold, the haters get more frustrated and complain louder, which in turn convinces more new players to buy the powers because the whiners wouldn't be complaining if the powers weren't uber awesome.
This is no different from what happened when that woman tried to get "Married With Children" cancelled. Her whining helped boost the shows ratings and make it a success.
I must read about that now...cause that's hilarious.
I would define "pay to win" as a situation where 1) there is an upgrade available in the ingame store, 2) the upgrade is not available through gameplay in any way, 3) it is such a good upgrade that if it *were* available through gameplay, any character would be getting it as a matter of course. It doesn't have to be a *huge* upgrade numerically, it just has to have a clear beneficial effect to any character taking it.
Something like making pre-Inherent Fitness a store-only pool, or selling a permament Auto +6% DEF to All temp power in the store that's not available anywhere else, would qualify as "pay to win".
Temp powers that are available through gameplay and in fact fairly mediocre compared to other temp powers available through gameplay, do not.
Character index
Not an issue for me,as I've never seen the need to be uberl33t - just here to enjoy a game.
Would cheerfully shell out, mind, if we could have customisable combat pets...
- customise powers: pick two of first five powers from any ONE set (primary or secondary)
- customise outfits and apply any costume piece you currently own. Scales would be changed to allow very small pets (eg: 1' to 2' high)
- customised travel animation chosen from those you currently own (Steam Jump, Ninja Run, Beast Run)
- limited summoning time (5 minutes)
- LOOOOONG recharge time (1 hour)
Which would mean I could have Doomy The Doom Kitten running around after me doing Shadow Maul and Siphon Life 
Is it time for the dance of joy yet?
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Originally Posted by UberGuy
What do I think? I think I have better things to spend points on. I think if some new player to the game thinks that's a good deal, what I consider their unfortunate ignorance is helping finance the game by buying things I never would.
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| I would define "pay to win" as a situation where 1) there is an upgrade available in the ingame store, 2) the upgrade is not available through gameplay in any way, 3) it is such a good upgrade that if it *were* available through gameplay, any character would be getting it as a matter of course. It doesn't have to be a *huge* upgrade numerically, it just has to have a clear beneficial effect to any character taking it. |
All that needed to be said on the topic has been said.
Pay to win would imply if this was PVP. However this is not a PVP centric game. Having a whistle that summons a werewolf is hardly outlandish considdering Boccor gives zombies and there are already pet temp powers that are earnable.
These can be used by anyone, and while squishies benefit from it prolly the most when soloing, I do not see how a AI controlled pet working for a squishy as a damage sponge is at all better than said squishy just working on a team.
Pay to win in that mindset would be no different than vet awards really. So pay to win has always been in this game, only it was exclusively for people who played the game the longest (Which mind you is still present), the only difference is that now anyone can buy something for 80 points and have a 5 use pet. Not worth the points in my mind, but I hardly call it WIN!
Alot of the things on the paragon market is a rip off, summon warwolf being one of them in my book, no matter how good it is, just isn't worth spending money on unless its a permanent upgrade to your account, but as long as nc is making money then its all a wash.
Just as a an FYI, the arc to get the whistle in-game is from Tobias Hansen. He sends you to Stephanie Peebles to get the whistle but it isn't her arc.
PS It is a pretty meh pet. Getting a Shivan Shard is fairly easy (ymmv) and gets a much more useful temp pet.
_________
@Inquisitor
What I really want is some way to recharge Amy's Ward. As far as I know we can only get it once from Katie Hannon's task force.
total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
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It's one of those "slippery slope" things.|
Originally Posted by 3dent
I posted it in the feedback thread but it was drowned in everybody's collective "meh" about everything else in the today's market update.
Warwolf Whistle. 80 points/5 uses. No reward token gate (which at least does limit the issue to a minority of the overall game population). Here to stay. What's next? Shivans? HVAS? As everyone knows, temp pets can do wonders for squishie survivability solo, and thus are quite useful. So, I'm not quite convinced this isn't too good an offering for a rm-purchasable power. Unless Backup Radio (unlimited and rm-free) does summon a better pets on average (I really didn't check BU radio seriously yet, so I don't know.) So, what everyone thinks? |
Yes, it's a combat pet. So yes, it makes them more effective in tossing out damage.
A couple things to note:
- Most non-MM combat pet AI SUCKS in the game (and if you ask some MMs, the MM pet AI could use a lot of work too). It's common to dive into the middle of a mob, have the pet take a few swipes, then just STAND there doing nothing, contributing nothing.
- If this were a permanent power, it'd be too much. It's a temp with limited charges and, if I'm not mistaken, you can only buy the pack once. This severely mitigates the utility.
But, after five uses of MM-god-mode, they're done. It may get them...what? A extra level or two faster than they might have?
So this is a "Not a BFD for me".
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I'll count this as acceptable simply because I don't see it as having a 'pay to win' effect on the game.
Now, I happen to like temporary pet powers. I usually keep a giant snowbeast or a backup radio or something similar in a pocket for those fights when I need a little extra kick but, as has been already been pointed out, they're a bit stupid and they cannot carry a fight on their own. I see them a bit like a Blackwand or Nemesis staff. Nice to have but not gamebreaking.
If folks want to spend their money on this, why not? I might not, particularly since I have access to flashbacks to recharge my Loa bone or wolf whistle... but thats just me.
Writer of In-Game fiction: Just Completed: My Summer Vacation. My older things are now being archived at Fanfiction.net http://www.fanfiction.net/~jwbullfrog until I come up with a better solution.
This would only be pay to win if the warwolf temp was actually, y'know, WINNING. It really isn't that great, and it doesn't last that long.
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Couldn't agree with this more.|
Originally Posted by Brillig
Please stop saying "pay to win." This allows certain people to go on and on for pages about "winning" in CoH. Instead, just say "pay for performance", or "pay for power."
Oh, and on that note, that ship sailed long long ago with Enhancement Boosters. |
THERE IS NO WIN.
Paying for some extra stuff is what the market is all about. Doesn't matter to me if that extra stuff is a new powerset, new costume pieces, or new bonus powers or summons, or even XP or levels.
At the end of the day we're all here to have fun. If "fun" translates to you into "get to 50 as fast as possible" then I have no problem with you buying stuff to make that easier, or even buying a 50 outright (though I can see why they won't allow that due to it effecting how much such people will play and pay). For others "fun" means making new costumes. They pay to do that now with the market. For others "fun" means trying out new powersets, etc.
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Coming soon to the Store maybe ?
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Originally Posted by SwellGuy
What I really want is some way to recharge Amy's Ward. As far as I know we can only get it once from Katie Hannon's task force.
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Originally Posted by 3dent
Surprisingly long, with a right type of squishy. It tanked Honoree in Mender Ramiel arc for me once. (granted, he was just an EB.)
But I see your point. I'm still uncomfortable with the direction this may go to. |
I kind of see where you're coming from... in the "direction" you say... but I think we've seen this kind of thing since I've been in the game. It's not necessarily pets per se, but there have been all kinds of tweaks to make the journey from level 1 to 50 a touch easier. That's happened every time a hindrance gets nerfed, or we get a boost.
What I would say is that there's enough content and character slots that an easy ride to 50 isn't an issue - and stuff that we don't see as "easy win" is probably more beneficial. The Rocket Board and the Vet Reward Weapons (Sands of Mu, Nemesis staff etc) all have a bigger impact.
Thelonious Monk
The monthly stipend really quells a lot of issues I'd have with the MTs. In fact by basically making the argument a matter of paying-a-few-bucks-to-not-wait-a-month, I've probably ended up spending more on MTs in COH in the last couple months than in MTs from all other games combined.
I'll feel like they've crossed a line when they start putting out a lot of stuff that's worth more than a monthly stipend or they add stuff that's just way too powerful to ignore that you can't earn with reasonable effort in-game.
Dear developers: If you add Warburg Nukes to the store, make redeeming them count toward Rocketman - I'll drop the 800 points right now.
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