Spider-Man has the right idea


CaptainFoamerang

 

Posted

So, I was looking at movie trailers earlier, and saw the one for next year's Spider-Man (I'd seen it before) and it got me thinking: Why reboot after only 10 years? Bond changed actors many times and never felt the need for an "origin" story...why not just pick up where the last series left off...or go ahead and set it in High School but skip the origin.

I realized, though, that they're taking the approach that comics should. Many people will not have seen the Spidey from 10 years ago, and that's a movie that was created for a different people in a different time (I still remember the original teaser with the Twin Towers featured prominently). At some point in a story that just goes on and on like comics do, you need to dump the old continuity, get back to the basics of the character and tell the story again, with whatever updates keep it relevant for the newcomers.

Comics used to know this. Every 3-4 years you'd get a renewal of sorts...not necessarily a hard reboot, but they'd just tell the same stories again for what they assumed were the new new generation of readers.

But something happened...primarily with "Generation X" but other outliers as well...they refused, upon growing up, to put away their childish things. They carried their adolescence into adulthood, and expected their toys to grow up with them. They insisted that Spider-Man, Superman, etc. all follow them from the bright primary colors of their youtrh into the gray land of moral inabsolutes of their adulthood. They demanded ambiguity, dark and gritty, middle ages and married characters that reflected their lives.

But that's not what comics were or ever should have been. Comics should stick to the core of their stories and not cater to audiences that simply want to walk hand-in-hand with Superman to their graves. To this end, I think that comics from the big 2 should hard reboot every 10 years or so. Throw out the old continuity and start the story over again and see where it goes. Don't do what Ultimate Spider-Man did and feel compelled to reintroduce every minor supporting character that ever appeared in the main books. Just start the story over and see where it goes.

As long as you maintain the core of the character, you'll keep the core fans and attract new ones. sure you'll lose the desperate guys that have posters of Mary Jane Watson on the walls of their parents basement and the guys that so identify with Superman that they wear faux eyeglasses, but you'll grow your overall audience in a way that clearly isn't happening with comics today.

If you don't think the numbers will be there for a reboot, take a look at the New 52 from DC and think again. What started out as a soft reboot is getting "harder" with each issue as sales increase. DC went from the clear loser in sales to the winner...while doing it with less books and at a lower price than Marvel.

IMO, it's the only way for the industry to survive.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Judas_Ace View Post
If you don't think the numbers will be there for a reboot, take a look at the New 52 from DC and think again.
Is that working for them? I genuinely would like know, since I took a look at a couple of books from the range and promptly cancelled all my DC pick-ups.


This is a song about a super hero named Tony. Its called Tony's theme.
Jagged Reged: 23/01/04

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jagged View Post
Is that working for them? I genuinely would like know, since I took a look at a couple of books from the range and promptly cancelled all my DC pick-ups.
It's certainly provided a rather hefty spike in DC's sales. Whether or not this translates to a long term gain remains to be seen. It's just too early to tell.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Judas_Ace View Post
But something happened...primarily with "Generation X" but other outliers as well...they refused, upon growing up, to put away their childish things. They carried their adolescence into adulthood, and expected their toys to grow up with them. They insisted that Spider-Man, Superman, etc. all follow them from the bright primary colors of their youtrh into the gray land of moral inabsolutes of their adulthood. They demanded ambiguity, dark and gritty, middle ages and married characters that reflected their lives.
Not to start another front for generational warfare, but the Baby Boom was the audience responsible for the gradually more serious tone of the Silver Age comics, most notably Spider-Man. Peter Parker had to deal with more adult responsibilities than Clark Kent ever did, and student protesters and the Viet Nam War were present in the background in his titles at that time. Then the death of Gwen Stacy* re-wrote all the rules of what could happen in a comic book. Stan Lee was well aware that Marvel had college-aged readers and pitched his stories accordingly.

Yes, the 80s' The Dark Knight Returns and Watchmen dealt with serious themes as well as older heroes, but comics had been on the path to that juncture for more than a decade.


* "The Night Gwen Stacy Died" Amazing Spider-Man #121-122, June–July 1973.—The True-Believin' True Gentleman.


 

Posted

Sweet jesus, don't say anything to suggest that DC's new 52 reboot was a good idea! Are you insane?!

Don't encourage them.


- CaptainFoamerang

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Posted

No that's not what happened
No that's not why they did it
No that's no what they did
No they should not do that

Gen X didn't refuse to grow up, and even if they did that has nothing to do with what happened.
Stan Lee actually had the right idea... Every comic is someone's first. When you realize this you realize how dumb the idea of a "reboot" is for reintroducing characters is.

The problems include...
Forced 6 issue arcs
Using blurbs to introduce the characters/story rather than doing it in the comic.


 

Posted

Really? My local stre is limiting the issues he's ordering now because most of his regulars dropped very but Green Lantern.


 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jagged View Post
Is that working for them?
Well, I'm reading Aquaman now.

But I mourn the loss of (say it with me) Power Girl and Stephanie Brown as Batgirl.

If only they'd brought back the Metal Men...

Let's see. Pre-reboot, I was getting:

Power Girl
Batgirl
Brave and Bold
Flash
Justice League

Post-reboot:

Justice League
Action Comics
Detective Comics
Superman
Batman
Batgirl
Legion Lost
Aquaman
Wonder Woman
Green Lantern
Flash
Batwoman

So...


 

Posted

F reboots and remakes.


First Marvel spends the last 8 years ruining Venom, and now DC reboots my favorite ongoing and I have no clue what they are even going for (Nightwing).


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Posted

(Back on topic) Isn't it because Disney took over and they want to do interlocking storylines?


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Judas_Ace View Post
Spider-Man has the right idea


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by _Klaw_ View Post
(Back on topic) Isn't it because Disney took over and they want to do interlocking storylines?
If you mean the movie, I don't think so. More to do with Sony needing to make a film if they wanted to keep the rights.


This is a song about a super hero named Tony. Its called Tony's theme.
Jagged Reged: 23/01/04

 

Posted

Disney taking over did kill that Spectacular Spider Man show though due to the rights issue. It was getting pretty decent too....


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by DLancer View Post
Disney taking over did kill that Spectacular Spider Man show though due to the rights issue. It was getting pretty decent too....
Yeah, I was really disappointed about that. The Spectacular Spider Man cartoon series was all manner of awesome and so far has been the one and only representation of Venom (in any medium) that I've actually liked. I was really hoping they would get round to doing The Death of Gwen Stacey.

If anyone finds a way to the parallel universe where that happened, please let me know. Cheers!


This is a song about a super hero named Tony. Its called Tony's theme.
Jagged Reged: 23/01/04

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jagged View Post
Is that working for them? I genuinely would like know, since I took a look at a couple of books from the range and promptly cancelled all my DC pick-ups.
It might be working for them, but I read the #1s of Green Lantern, Batman, Superman, and Wonder Woman, and none of them felt like a reboot. They all felt like continuations of the same stories with a #1 printed on the book.

In Batman, Grayson is there and referenced as Nightwing. In Green Lantern, Susan references her time with the Star Saphires as having happened, not to mention Sinestro running into his old yellow lantern buddies.

Superman just plain references a significant past period with Lois and the Daily planet like he has been there for years saving the day.

Wonder Woman, I guess that could be a reboot except everyone seems to know who she is, and when the character is already a famous hero it makes it seem less like a new story, and judging how none of the others I read were actually rebooted, I just don't think she is either.


"Where does he get those wonderful toys?" - The Joker

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Judas_Ace View Post
But something happened...primarily with "Generation X" but other outliers as well...they refused, upon growing up, to put away their childish things. They carried their adolescence into adulthood, and expected their toys to grow up with them. They insisted that Spider-Man, Superman, etc. all follow them from the bright primary colors of their youtrh into the gray land of moral inabsolutes of their adulthood. They demanded ambiguity, dark and gritty, middle ages and married characters that reflected their lives.
Your argument is a contradiction. If Generation X refused to grow up and put away their childish things, then comics would not have become ambiguous, gritty, features married characters and middle ages etc, they would have stayed the same childish books. By changing them, the comics became less childish and more adult in nature and so Generation X did put away their childhood, they just demanded the medium's story telling grow up with them rather than staying stagnant.

But that's not just Generation X, that's society as a whole growing to have different, often times more mature, complex and realistic story telling, in all mediums (except arguably books that have had these things in them for ages.)

Look at 1950s sitcoms VS todays sitcoms. Even the relatively tame ones are so much more complicated and racey than Leave it to Beaver of Bewitched ever was.

Look at 1960s Batman Vs 1990s, Batman the Animated series, which was way deeper, more complex and more believable. It didn't need to constantly be gritty and dark etc, it was still meant for kids but it had much more mature story telling.

Look at Bond movies from the 60s to the bond movies of today. Even before the reboot they got more complicated, more gritty etc.

Anything on TV, or in the movies, or in popular media, is largely more adult, complex and "dark" or "realistic" now than it was then, it's just how the media in this country has changed. Comics changed right along with it and no reason they shouldn't have, they would have become obsolete as society's tastes around them changed.


"Where does he get those wonderful toys?" - The Joker

 

Posted

Each new generation should have a new generation of heroes.

I don't think that you need to reboot every 10 years, but you should keep the 'flagship heroes' to their roots while allowing them to live in the world that is around them and remain relevent. In addition, when times change, you should create new heroes that symbolize the beleifs and struggles of those times, and deliberately compare and contrast them to the old school heroes.

For instance, the Death of Superman arc.

It's no Kingdom Come or Watchmen, but it examined what Superman really is...his morals? (Steel) His powers? (Eradicator) and even poked fun at the reboot idea with Superboy/Superman. It then reintroduced the character at a more beleivable power level, but the core character remained the same...a Kansas Farm Boy with enough power to change the world, and enough ethics NOT to.

The Broken Bat storyline was similar. It looked at what Batman was and what he was supposed to be through Azrael and Robin and Nightwing, gave the grim and gritty times a grim and gritty surrogate that they thoroughly deconstructed, then gave us good old Batman back.

And I have nothing but good things to say about the Byrne and Simone runs on Wonder Woman.

IMHO, every few years they should introduce new characters that symbolize issues that were not in the headlines a few years ago, and give them their run in comparison to the flagship characters.

Let the best man/woman/whatever win.


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