Point the new guy in the right direction!


CBeet

 

Posted

I plan to have 4 character slots on Infinity. I am also VIP till Thanksgiving so have access to Everything atm. In the future I plan on grabbing Going Rogue & Architect Edition for 3 months of VIP goodness and enough points for those 2 other character slots. Currently I have a Dark/Dark Corruptor Hero, a Nin/Nin Stalker Villan and (While VIP) a Demon Summoning/Time Manipulation Mastermind. In Traditional fantasy RPG's I gravitate towards Rangers, Bards, Monks and Rogues. Generally I don't play a lot of PvP I'm not against it, just really don't go seeking it.

So what i'm looking for is suggested combinations of Archetype and Powers, but there is one catch! One of the things I have to do is take advantage of the Going Rogue powers, whats the point of having the expansion (eventually) if you don't use the powers right? So the eventual two alternate unlocked characters must incorporate these powers.

Dual Pistol (Blaster, Corruptor, Defender-2)
Electric Control (Dominators)
Kinetic Melee (Brute, Scrapper, Stalker, Tank-2)

I am not asking for level by level builds, just combinations and why you think it could be something I might enjoy (and why they're fun for you!). I don't even need a theme as I got a decent imagination to make up solid inspiration for anything really.

@Dogahn
Thanks!


 

Posted

First of all, welcome to the City, Dogahn!

My favorite characters in MMOs, as well as tabletop, are also Monks, Rangers, Bards and Rogues, although a certain most-played MMO in the world has turned me off the Rogue class forever.

I have a Dual Pistol/MM blaster that I enjoy, but he's not my favorite character of all time.
I think it's more from my enjoyment of melee DPS than the character. I want to be Chow Yun Fat in a John Woo movie, not faceplant boy in a comedic role. But, I have seen people with the same powerset dominate groups of mobs set for +8, so your mileage may vary.

As for Dominator, again with the ranged DPS vs melee, the only one I liked playing was Earth/Thorns, which I have tried again and again, only to get bored with in the late 20's. I have no call on Electric at all.

And with Kinetic, I tried it as well. A couple of times. It's melee dps, which I love, but Kinetic didn't do it for me. But I have read that several people love Kinetic/Shield, so you may want to try that out, depending on what others who respond to this say.

Anyway, again, welcome to the game! Always glad to see new people stopping by!


 

Posted

Thanks! I went to sleep thinking about this (currently burned out on previous MMO while waiting for a good reason to blow the points I have left there) and came to the realization that my Dark/Dark Corruptor plays an awful lot like a Bard. A little control, a little healing, a little dps one of those jack of all trades master of none things. I think my Nin/Nin is basically a Rogue... sneak attack nuff said

So I guess i'm looking for a Ranger and a Monk... Blaster does seem to compliment the Ranger mentality rather well. Shoot things and if it gets nasty you have decent close in fighting ability as well. Dual pistols is a given considering I want to take advantage of Going Rogue. Mental Manipulation looks like it could be fun, reminds me of the "active defense" style I read in Dominator guides. I am curious to hear from people who have tried dual pistols as a secondary power.

Would a Electric Control Dominator or Kinetic Melee Brute/Tank have what I like in Monks.

Dogan
Costumes anyone?


 

Posted

Monk = MA/STJ + SR/WP
Bard= Crab spider for ranged, Widow for melee
Ranger= Arch/EM, Arch/Devices


 

Posted

For your ranger role, I think I'd go Dual Pistols (since you sorta narrowed it down to that)...

I'd either go Blaster (2Gun/MM), or maybe Defender. 2Gun Rad would be pretty fun and potent. 2Gun/Traps, 2Gun/Storm, or maybe as an outlier, 2Gun/Time. If you prefer the more offensive mindset (and want the 2gun powers earlier) you can easily make any of these as a Corr, too.
The Blaster will obviously push out most raw damage, but if things get nasty or in close, you don't gain much melee skills from MM. The tier 9 is quite nice, and the one pure melee attack is good, too, but you'll be more fragile than if you went with a def or corr. Both Defs and Corrs will have better survivability, especially in melee. So I guess it all depends on how tough you want your ranger to be, and if you're willing to give up some damage for it.

For your Monk-ish alt, SR/Kin Melee if a Tanker. Kin/SR and Kin/Energy Aura both could be played as a scrapper or Brute. I'd probably go with the Brute for this one. Kin/Energy seems like it'd be awesome on a Brute.

PS: Oh, and welcome to the game! Have fun, regardless of what ya end up picking.

PPS: Seeing as you've got a Corr already, I'd lean toward Blaster or Defender for your Ranger, just so you have greater variety of ATs available to you. I still think 2gun/mm is the way to go if you choose blaster, and if you pick defender, I honestly can't narrow your choices down any further. All 4 of those sets will be fun to play as a 2gun def.


 

Posted

I have a miniguide on playing Blasters in my sig if you go Blaster. There's a trick to it.

More generally: What you have to realize about this game vs. other games is that buffs and debuffs are HUGE.

Your Dark/Dark Corr was described as "A little control, a little healing, a little dps one of those jack of all trades master of none things. "

You left out the part where your ToHit debuffs make +2 enemies miss 4 out of 5 times. Or more. The math gets ugly fast, but if you look at your Debuffs it will say, for instance, under Fearsome Stare "ToHit -15% for 20s"
1) With slotting (three SO's or the equivalent) that's -21% .
2) That stacks with all your Defense-giving powers, your Darkest Night debuff, and all your attacks that also have ToHit debuffs.
3) That's out of 50% .

<UGLY MATH EXAMPLE>
So if you debuff a particular critter by 42%, and they normally hit 60% of the time, 42/50 of those hits will become misses and only 8/50 will actually land. So 8/50 * 60% = 9.6% . It will hit people less than 10% of the time.
</UGLY MATH EXAMPLE>

... so really, you're DPS/Control/Support/Tank. And, as long as your End bar holds out, you are master of ALL of them.

This is a game where Defenders can tank, Tanks can do good DPS, Controllers can single-handedly beat up Giant Monsters... it may not have been DESIGNED that way in 2003 but it is a happy accident of superpowered insanity.

Go wild.


Mini-guides: Force Field Defenders, Blasters, Market Self-Defense, Frankenslotting.

So you think you're a hero, huh.
@Boltcutter in game.

 

Posted

Dual Pistols is kind of a mediocre set (mind you, that doesn't stop it from being awesome to look at, but, its damage isn't great), but can slot Force Feedback +recharges into all three of it's AoEs, making it good with support sets that have powers which benefit from stupid amounts of +recharge. I would avoid it on a Blaster in favor of something that plays to that archetype's strength more (read: HURTN STUFFZ).

Kinetic Melee is great with Shield Defense on a Scrapper for crazy +damage stacking, Ninjitsu on a Stalker for... basically just being the two best Stalker sets, and I have heard it plays nicely with EA on either as well.

Electric Control I would strongly suggest you avoid on a Dominator, because Domination does almost nothing for the set. Meanwhile, it pairs amazingly well with Time Manipulation (my pick), Radiation Emission, and, Poison.

Also, if you want to use the last Going Rogue set, Demon Summoning, it goes great with Thermal Radiation (my pick), Dark Miasma, and Time Manipulation.


@Draeth Darkstar
Virtue [Heroes, Roleplay], Freedom [Villains], Exalted [All Sides, Roleplay]
Code:
I24 Proc Chance = (Enhanced Recharge + Activation Time) * (Current PPM * 1.25) / 60*(1 + .75*(.15*Radius - 0.011*Radius*(360-Arc)/30))
Single Target Radius = 0. AoE Non-Cone Arc = 360.

 

Posted

Kinetic Melee could quite easily be a Monk's chi. Combine with Willpower, Electric Armour, Dark Armour or Super Reflex/Ninjitsu and you've a solid character for the concept. I would suggest going Scrapper or Stalker for Kinetic Melee, if Stalker then Kin/Nin, Scrapper Kin/Elec.

Electric Control works with a multitude of things, my favourite combination being Electric/Earth Assault Dominator. No real reason, I just find it fun and can't really comment on other combos off the top of my head.

Dual Pistols is nice with Traps for a Defender/Corruptor thematically, Blasters can be great with almost any secondary. If you like to solo, Devices works nicely thematically though isn't generally the best number-wise in a team, or you can go back to the Monk concept and have Pistols/Energy saying it's chi and they're a modern Monk, or a modern Ranger with /Mental or /Devices, they all work.


I am the Blaster, I have filled the role of Tank, Controller and Defender
Sometimes all at once.
Union EU player! Pip pip, tally ho, top hats and tea etc etc

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by GibsonMcCoy View Post
First of all, welcome to the City, Dogahn!


As for Dominator, again with the ranged DPS vs melee, the only one I liked playing was Earth/Thorns, which I have tried again and again, only to get bored with in the late 20's. I have no call on Electric at all.


Anyway, again, welcome to the game! Always glad to see new people stopping by!
I am butting in here first of all to say Hello and Welcome to Dogahn, and second of all, GibsonMcCoy, how do you handle the DOT in the Elec/Thorns combo? Doesn't it, the DOT, keep the bad guys awake on your sleep field? I wanted to try one, but got scared off by the thought that the sleep field couldn't resleep my victims because the Damage Over Time was working on them.

That said, I have a Electric/Psi who is great fun, and, with her, I can can drain and keep my victims drained all the way to zero. I also have a Elec/Earth, and it is fun and effective, but it is the /Psi I keep going back to...right now though my baby is a Street Justice/Willpower Brute. I am totally enchanted with it.

Again, Welcome

Lisa.


So don't wait for heroes, do it yourself
You've got the power
winners are losers
who got up and gave it just one more try

***Dennis DeYoung

 

Posted

Thanks for the information guys.
First I want to say that it was not my intention to try and replicate a Monk or Ranger. I'm really looking to capture the playstyle... essence so to speak. Take your D20 Monk, Flurry of Blows, Evasion, good saves and resistance to ill effects. Ranger is harder for me to Peg and could probably be summed up as a Fighter with a knack for staying hidden and a Pet. Least this is what I think I get out of those classes.

I've been tinkering with a couple characters. A Radiation/Dual Pistol Defender since the dual pistol seems to be more flavor than substance. Its fairly high maintenance (target based AoE toggles), not necessarily bad just requires a different approach (which is good) and it has been pretty awesome to watch! I had one situation with a named lieutenant who hit my guy with a knockdown attack but the pistol shot went off during the backflip of the animation and killed him... sick.

The other one I went and took for a test drive was an Electric/Electric Dominator. I looked at the Electric/Earth and came really close (literally going back an forth between the two in the creator) but settled on attack speed and mobility of the Ele/Ele. Oddly, this makes it feel very monk like especially with Domination's mez effect resistance and the Conductive Aura encouraging melee. I've found a certain glee in obliterating foes endurance with every attack biting into it and the aura transferring it to my character. It leaves them quivering in place as they don't have the endurance to attack anymore. I don't know how long this is going to work through higher levels.

This brings me to my most recent revelation... I might need that 5th spot, LOL
It seems that the game is rather forgiving when it comes to characters. Such as if you have a concept you have a playable character. Which I assume is one of the core values, more about what you create n all that fluff. I'm off to go look at Blaster and Brute some more, I really like their inherent power.

Dogan
Fulmens... You've made it hard to avoid my main while VIP.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dogahn View Post
Rangers, Bards, Monks and Rogues
Hmmmm, this means absolutely nothing to me, I have never played a Fantasy MMO or RPG really. What are these folks good at?



 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thirty-Seven View Post
Hmmmm, this means absolutely nothing to me, I have never played a Fantasy MMO or RPG really. What are these folks good at?

Rangers are generally a mix of melee (often dual-wielding) and bows. Sometimes they have a single powerful pet (lions and tigers and bears, oh my!). They tend to have a protector-of-the-wilderness theme and access to some light healing/buff/debuff spells and good movement speeds.

Bards are a little of everything. They generally have a bit of melee power, some spells (often focusing on illusion and crowd control), good buffs, and questionable defenses.

Monks are your basic agile martial artist type.

Rogues are generally stalker-esque: agile, stealthy melee fighters that can be in big trouble if they don't fight on their terms. They also tend to have some utility such as disarming traps or unlocking loot chests or dungeon doors.



 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thirty-Seven View Post
Hmmmm, this means absolutely nothing to me, I have never played a Fantasy MMO or RPG really. What are these folks good at?
Well in generalized terms offered by the Character Creator
Bard - Support
Monk - Melee
Ranger - Ranged
Rogue - Melee

In Battlefield Terms
Bard - Medic
Monk - Assault
Ranger - Sniper
Rogue - Assault (maybe Engineer if you consider their specific utility)

Dogan
Just one crazy guys opinion.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gearsinger View Post
Rangers are generally a mix of melee (often dual-wielding) and bows. Sometimes they have a single powerful pet (lions and tigers and bears, oh my!). They tend to have a protector-of-the-wilderness theme and access to some light healing/buff/debuff spells and good movement speeds.
Hmmm, so this sounds to me like it would be a Blaster? They have range in their primary and some melee in their secondary and access to power pools for the rest?

Quote:
Bards are a little of everything. They generally have a bit of melee power, some spells (often focusing on illusion and crowd control), good buffs, and questionable defenses.
A Dominator then? Between control, assault, and power pools, I think you can do all of that (except Illusion )

Quote:
Monks are your basic agile martial artist type.
So... like a MA Scrapper?

Quote:
Rogues are generally stalker-esque: agile, stealthy melee fighters that can be in big trouble if they don't fight on their terms. They also tend to have some utility such as disarming traps or unlocking loot chests or dungeon doors.
Sounds like a Stalker with Ninjitsu and maybe Dual Blades.

Man, if that is all the variability that a Fantasy game gives you, I could never imagine playing one. CoH has such diversity it isn't even funny!!



 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dogahn View Post
Dual Pistol (Blaster, Corruptor, Defender-2)
Electric Control (Dominators)
Kinetic Melee (Brute, Scrapper, Stalker, Tank-2)
I have played all of these sets at least a bit... and now that I think I understand the roles in a Fantasy game abit better...

• Electric Control:
I played an Elec/Psi Dominator... and I love him! Electirc Control gives you an excellent collection of powers that, as control sets go, are pretty unique. A placeable sleep AoE, a chaining knockdown power, etc. And then with Psionic Assault, you have a good mix of powers that put you in melee as well as at range. All and all, this sounds a bit like a Bard without any buffing powers... but if you want those, you could dip into the Leadership pool for some pretty decent AoE team buffs.

• Dual Pistols:
I have had two different characters that used DP, and only one of them still survives. My first was a Sonic/DP Defender... and I found that I just didn't like how Sonic played as a Defender... not sure precisely what I didn't like, but the combo didn't work for me. And IIRC, there were quite a few endurance issues too.

The next one I played was a DP/Kinetics Corruptor. Now, HIM I liked a lot. He loves to be in melee where all of the various Kinetic buffs have the most impact, and since his concept as a character is so zany, it doesn't really matter to him if he dies a bit (not that I have too many issues there). Kinetics is a great set in general: heals, +Rech, +End powers and one of the best +Dmg powers there is!

That might just cover your Ranger angle, though it would definitely lack a Pet of any kind.

• Kinetic Melee
This is the one set I have the least experience with, and since my character was a KM/Fire Brute, he doesn't really apply to your paradigms very well at all.

However, I have been told that KM does play really well as a Stalker since one of the powers auto-recharages the +ToHit, +Dmg power in the set, which is fantastic on a Stalker. As far as secondary, I would say go Ninjitsu, but you said in the OP you already have one of those. A pretty good alternative would be Super Reflexes.

If I understand correctly, this would seem to be the Monk/Rogue role pretty well. KM is very Tai-Chi in appearance, and SR is pretty much Rogue-like all by itself, together you would have a stealthy, hand-to-hand melee fighter.



 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thirty-Seven View Post
Man, if that is all the variability that a Fantasy game gives you, I could never imagine playing one. CoH has such diversity it isn't even funny!!
Well, those are just some basic classes. That's not even all of them. You can also dual and triple (sometimes even quadruple) class. For example, you could be a rogue/cleric. And then their are prestige classes. Video games tend to be a little rigid with what you can do, but actual pen and paper gaming gives you tons of freedom (depending on the GM).


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by McCharraigin View Post
I am butting in here first of all to say Hello and Welcome to Dogahn, and second of all, GibsonMcCoy, how do you handle the DOT in the Elec/Thorns combo? Doesn't it, the DOT, keep the bad guys awake on your sleep field? I wanted to try one, but got scared off by the thought that the sleep field couldn't resleep my victims because the Damage Over Time was working on them.

That said, I have a Electric/Psi who is great fun, and, with her, I can can drain and keep my victims drained all the way to zero. I also have a Elec/Earth, and it is fun and effective, but it is the /Psi I keep going back to...right now though my baby is a Street Justice/Willpower Brute. I am totally enchanted with it.

Again, Welcome

Lisa.
I don't know, Lisa. I've played Earth/Thorns to about the mid-20's a couple of times and I get bored with it, so haven't paid attention. Not saying it's a bad set, or that other people wouldn't enjoy it, I've just never been a fan of ranged combat. I prefer up close and personal, hence my fiancee's quote in my sig.

At the moment, I have 5 50's, 1 40 and 1 38. Four of the 50's are scrappers. So is the 38 (my only surviving redside character). My other 50 is my Warshade, and the 40 is my DP/MM blaster. After those two hit 50, it's on to Titan Weapon and Staff Fighting (as soon as those come out!)


Edit: Just wanted to add to the conversation, if you know anything about "The Destroyer" novels, the monk class in D&D was based on Chiun and Remo.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thirty-Seven View Post
Man, if that is all the variability that a Fantasy game gives you, I could never imagine playing one. CoH has such diversity it isn't even funny!!
Make no mistake, City of Heroes has a lot of character customization for a video game, but it doesn't even come close to what a pen and paper (regardless of genre) will allow you to do with your character. If you don't understand why, it's somewhat difficult to explain in a forum like this, and better learned in real play experience anyway. Try it sometime!


@Draeth Darkstar
Virtue [Heroes, Roleplay], Freedom [Villains], Exalted [All Sides, Roleplay]
Code:
I24 Proc Chance = (Enhanced Recharge + Activation Time) * (Current PPM * 1.25) / 60*(1 + .75*(.15*Radius - 0.011*Radius*(360-Arc)/30))
Single Target Radius = 0. AoE Non-Cone Arc = 360.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thirty-Seven View Post
Man, if that is all the variability that a Fantasy game gives you, I could never imagine playing one. CoH has such diversity it isn't even funny!!
Keep in mind that this is just a sample of one player's preferred play styles. There are dozens of classes not represented in that list.



 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gearsinger View Post
Keep in mind that this is just a sample of one player's preferred play styles. There are dozens of classes not represented in that list.
And there are what, over a hundred varieties of brutes? At a minimum?

Speaking of brutes, you want claws/inv/body.

Trust me.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by mauk2 View Post
And there are what, over a hundred varieties of brutes? At a minimum?
We're not talking about a computer game though, we're talking about tabletop roleplaying games.

And there are over a hundred varieties of each class from just D&D alone: Fighters, Rangers, Paladins, Rogues, Bards, Clerics, Druids, Monks, Barbarians, Wizards and Sorcerers.

And don't get me started on multi-classing.

In my current World of Darkness game, some of the characters being played by my group are, a florist, an exotic dancer, a paranoid conspiracy theorist/ blogger, an art gallery owner, a weapons designer, and a telepath.

Computer games, even ones as great as City will never be able to get as in-depth as a good GM and a group of friends can in a tabletop game.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gearsinger View Post
Rangers are generally a mix of melee (often dual-wielding) and bows. Sometimes they have a single powerful pet (lions and tigers and bears, oh my!). They tend to have a protector-of-the-wilderness theme and access to some light healing/buff/debuff spells and good movement speeds.

Crab would work. They have just short of tank defenses, ranged attacks, melee attacks, team buffs and pets. Yes they're spider pets, but they're pets. Widow is pretty much the same except you don't get a pet, and you have Psy/claws in stead of gun/mace.

Quote:
Bards are a little of everything. They generally have a bit of melee power, some spells (often focusing on illusion and crowd control), good buffs, and questionable defenses.
Corr or defenders. (Maybe Peace Bringer, but I don't play one.) Corrs more damage focused, defenders more team buff focused. Also, Illusion controller might work here.


Quote:
Monks are your basic agile martial artist type.
Scapper, or maybe brute. Super reflexes, Willpower, invulnerability. Or look at Energy Aura if you want a stealthier character. Stalker or tank might also work. For offense, look at Street Justice or Dual Blades, both are fairly fast, agile sets.

Quote:
Rogues are generally stalker-esque: agile, stealthy melee fighters that can be in big trouble if they don't fight on their terms. They also tend to have some utility such as disarming traps or unlocking loot chests or dungeon doors.
Stalker? Look at some pool powers for "utility." Like Recall Friend and Grant Invis to stealth a mission. The Medicine Pool might make you feel more broadly useful, could pair with more classes with it. Presence maybe, the fear might be useful, and Rogue-ish.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dogahn View Post
Well in generalized terms offered by the Character Creator
Bard - Support
Monk - Melee
Ranger - Ranged
Rogue - Melee

Support = corr, defender or controller (generally). Masterminds and doms too.
Melee = Tanker, scrapper, window, brute. Maybe stalker, although it has the weakest defenses.
Ranged = Blaster, Corr, Defender, Dom, Controller, Widow, Crab, PB/WS.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by gameboy1234 View Post

Stalker? Look at some pool powers for "utility." Like Recall Friend and Grant Invis to stealth a mission. The Medicine Pool might make you feel more broadly useful, could pair with more classes with it. Presence maybe, the fear might be useful, and Rogue-ish.
I like the vigilante alignment power for this as well, Fear Incarnate. It's only mag 2 and has a small to hit debuff, but at least you don't have to spend a power pick on it. The rogue alignment power is similar but with a confuse. The added benefit is how fitting it is for a roguish character to cross sides as they see fit.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dogahn View Post
Thanks for the information guys.
First I want to say that it was not my intention to try and replicate a Monk or Ranger. I'm really looking to capture the playstyle... essence so to speak. Take your D20 Monk, Flurry of Blows, Evasion, good saves and resistance to ill effects.

If you want that sort of fell, and effect, but not necessarily that theme, it sounds like what you're looking for here for this sort of feel is Energy Aura. You can play this as a Scrapper, Brute, or Stalker. The key reason I suggest this is Entropic Aura. It's slows the attacks of all the enemies near you, and increase your attack speed (well, recharge) for each enemy close to you. More enemies= more recharge. It's a fun mechanic. It's defense based, meaning it's all about evasion. It's got a stealth power built it. A self heal with some extra utility, and a drain effect from your enemies that not robs their end to replenish yours, but also boosts your defenses the more people you drain.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by GibsonMcCoy View Post
We're not talking about a computer game though, we're talking about tabletop roleplaying games.

And there are over a hundred varieties of each class from just D&D alone: Fighters, Rangers, Paladins, Rogues, Bards, Clerics, Druids, Monks, Barbarians, Wizards and Sorcerers.

And don't get me started on multi-classing.

In my current World of Darkness game, some of the characters being played by my group are, a florist, an exotic dancer, a paranoid conspiracy theorist/ blogger, an art gallery owner, a weapons designer, and a telepath.

Computer games, even ones as great as City will never be able to get as in-depth as a good GM and a group of friends can in a tabletop game.

This may be wrong only in as much as it may not state the case strongly enough. The varieties available in tabletop games are limitless.