whats the best archtype for healer
By
Agent White,
Posted on: 2011-10-25 18:05 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
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Quoting again for emphasis. |
Originally Posted by Muon_Neutrino
Addendum to the above: said character is also a massive investment of RL $ for not much return in terms of +5ing all those IOs, and probably improves a team's performance by at most the same as a purely SO'd rad/, dark/, kin/, cold/, or (probably) time/ defender who can actually supply both offensive and defensive buffs and debuffs. Especially if you take a nice secondary like /sonic or /ice (for example) and actually use it as intended instead of ignoring it or slotting it for mostly irrelevant debuffs like -defense.
Healing in this game is probably the single *least* important form of mitigation available. It can be useful, but empathy's (for example) best powers are the buffs. If I was doing a +4/x8 TF, a 'pure healer' empath would be about the *last* character I would want along. No amount of healing is going to save a squishy who just pissed off a +4 rikti chief soldier, I want buffs and debuffs in that situation. |
And if one of my Empaths does find themselves trying to keep the above squishy alive, you can bet it isn't just healing getting tossed in their direction. More likely it's going to be HO rapidly followed by Fort then my ATTACK chain which typically for high end content would be a series of -resist /sonic blasts with Electric Fence to pin the offending foe in place. And somewhere in there I'm going to try and fit in Regen Aura (and quite possibly AB as well). If I'm on my Emp/Rad I would likely start the attack with Air Superiority to knock said boss/foe on his behind, then Cosmic Burst (and he's already in my Oppressive Gloom aura at that point) to mez him. It's a very rare situation (or very specific situation) where I'll do (or have to do) more than a single HO and HA for someone in trouble. The rest of those 'hairy' few seconds are going to be making sure they're buffed and every attack I have is tossed in there.
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I recognize that, which is why I phrased it that way.
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Originally Posted by Sailboat
Yeah, that's kind of a longshot.
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I think it's shaman.|
Originally Posted by comdo99
I want to do a healer but not sure which archtype is the best for healing party members.
any suggestions would help please ? |
It's shaman, right?
Yeah. Shaman.
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Depends. Needed healing is relative to how much damage is being taken. In most situations if you are playing with people who know how to play with a kin then they will be in melee anyways (for fulcrum shift mainly) and Kin will be the most team slot effective heal there is since there are also bringing so much more than just healing, really it's main limitation is people who can't adapt their playstyle to what their team mate's powers do (ie running away when they are damaged instead of staying in melee when a reliable kin is on the team). Kin healing can do anything emp/pain/thermal healing can do with half the activation time and twice as powerful aoe healing. Kins can heal scrappers tanking recluse in the STF by having them bring recluse to a tower and healing off the tower (using extreme example to show how kin healing is more than enough for content that is less dependant on healing than such a situation) and in pretty much any other tf a single kin is plenty of healing for the entire tf (big exception being keyes due to how much the AM tank has to move around) and at the same time they are providing speed boost, unlimited endurance, damage cap, and damage debuffs.
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Originally Posted by Madadh
It is really strong. But will never match a pure healing set for heals.. A single target heal from an emp is going to outstripe a transfusion. An absorb pain will put it to shame. I love Kin and Dark for how powerful their AoE heals are, but don't let anyone tell you they are more effective at healing then the single target options of an Emp or Pain.
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I am going to suggest Mastermind and either Thermal or Pain.
Yes, I know other support ATs heal more but Mastermind has one advantage and that's bodyguard. Many so-called healers die when things go wrong. They may get held and die and end up not healing as much.
MMs have the luxury of being more "sturdy" especially in bodyguard mode and doing damage while supporting (as long as the pets don't aggro more 
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I think Demon/Pain or /Thermal should be a good healer since Ember Demon provides some team resistance too.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
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All this is more to the point of why direct healing is in CoH one of the least important forms of mitigation than to why an Empath has more Healz than a Kin. Solid teams with solid players really don't care if their healing is coming from an Empath or a Kin or the scrapper using Aid Another ... long as the green bar doesn't vanish. They'll be far more interested in the potential buffs and debuffs being offered by their teammates.
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Originally Posted by DreadShinobi
Depends. Needed healing is relative to how much damage is being taken. In most situations if you are playing with people who know how to play with a kin then they will be in melee anyways (for fulcrum shift mainly) and Kin will be the most team slot effective heal there is since there are also bringing so much more than just healing, really it's main limitation is people who can't adapt their playstyle to what their team mate's powers do (ie running away when they are damaged instead of staying in melee when a reliable kin is on the team). Kin healing can do anything emp/pain/thermal healing can do with half the activation time and twice as powerful aoe healing. Kins can heal scrappers tanking recluse in the STF by having them bring recluse to a tower and healing off the tower (using extreme example to show how kin healing is more than enough for content that is less dependant on healing than such a situation) and in pretty much any other tf a single kin is plenty of healing for the entire tf (big exception being keyes due to how much the AM tank has to move around) and at the same time they are providing speed boost, unlimited endurance, damage cap, and damage debuffs.
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I love how every game has one class/archetype/whatever that everyone berates, and pats each other on the back for doing so, when the reality is that there is no actual correlation between t3h dur and a character type. Every class/AT/etc has its idiots as well as its excellent players.|
Originally Posted by Sailboat
Yeah, that's kind of a longshot.
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Signed,
That Mastermind that you didn't notice solo that Task Force for you, you know, that one time.
@Draeth Darkstar
Virtue [Heroes, Roleplay], Freedom [Villains], Exalted [All Sides, Roleplay]
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As effective as Masterminds are... any time I end up with a Demon Summoner on my team I start looking for excuses to leave. Most. Annoying. Pets. Ever. There are some things that can't be measured, and IMO those huge pets pushing me out of the way constantly and cluttering up the screen with busy graphics is worse than a Peacebringer spamming knockback.
But I understand why people like them. 
Even if I'd always prefer a non-Mastermind, and especially a non-demon summoner.
If you want to have any remote chance of being able to solo then you want to do this as a mastermind or controller with good damage pets. Otherwise you will basically be riding a team to 50 if you want xp in a timely manner. As for as sets to heal empathy has always been the best. People always try to down play healing in this game when its has always been the best damage mitigation. As long as your reaction time is good it will serve you well regardless of the situation so long as there is no -heal being thrown around.
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Agreed on this. Demons are the most annoying pet ever. Which was actually a pretty competitive field given how annoying the knockback-happy Stompbots are. I still have nightmares about playing my Blood Widow around the time of City of screeching demon-flesh (probably the main reason I first went Fort with her was so I wasn't being annoyed by demons so much).|
Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
As effective as Masterminds are... any time I end up with a Demon Summoner on my team I start looking for excuses to leave. Most. Annoying. Pets. Ever. There are some things that can't be measured, and IMO those huge pets pushing me out of the way constantly and cluttering up the screen with busy graphics is worse than a Peacebringer spamming knockback.
But I understand why people like them. Even if I'd always prefer a non-Mastermind, and especially a non-demon summoner. |
My Plant/Emp controller was a pleasure to level on teams and is still fairly handy solo.
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I see you're still making stuff up. No amount of reaction time with heals will save a blaster from two Rikti Soldiers aggroing on him at once. On the other hand, a defense or resistance buff will. In this game, proactive damage mitigation has always outshone reactive mitigation. And healing is by its very definition (and lack of HoTs in this game) is reactive.
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Originally Posted by EvilRyu
People always try to down play healing in this game when its has always been the best damage mitigation. As long as your reaction time is good it will serve you well regardless of the situation so long as there is no -heal being thrown around.
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Originally Posted by Back Alley Brawler
Did you just use "casual gamer" and "purpled-out warshade" in the same sentence?
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Uhhh what? Go give a blaster both ff bubbles and have him stand under the dispersion bubble and aggro 3 bosses. Now have him with no bubs or dispersion bubble aggro the same 3 bosses and have a heal only emp standing by. Tell me what happens. I'm betting 2 billion that the bubbled blaster lives longer. And the blaster can't have any defense bonus IOs or insps used, and must be facing level 50 bosses of the same enemy types. Video the emp supported one outlasting the bubled one and I will email you the 2bil personally.
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Originally Posted by EvilRyu
People always try to down play healing in this game when its has always been the best damage mitigation. As long as your reaction time is good it will serve you well regardless of the situation so long as there is no -heal being thrown around.
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No, you really can't. At absolute best, they are up for 90 seconds and down for 10, and that's with an army of kins keeping you at the hardcap on recharge. For a realistic purpled out character, those are up a little over 50% of the time - far from perma.
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Originally Posted by MishiiLove
You can also get perma to almost perma +health and +stamina as buff to all peoples,
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I'd roll something like a fire/pain corr or some kind of therm
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Depends if the attacks show up in the buffbar or not. Even if they don't it is not impossible.
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Originally Posted by ArcticFahx
I see you're still making stuff up. No amount of reaction time with heals will save a blaster from two Rikti Soldiers aggroing on him at once. On the other hand, a defense or resistance buff will. In this game, proactive damage mitigation has always outshone reactive mitigation. And healing is by its very definition (and lack of HoTs in this game) is reactive.
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Sure, it's not quite impossible. But Forting the blaster (and likely running Maneuvers, because it's taken on 90% of empaths) puts them at nearly 30% defense to all. Which means that of the two Rikti Chief Soldiers, the most likely number to hit at once is 0-1 (since each only has a 20%-ish chance of hitting). If you replace that empath with an FF defender, you get soft-cap between the individual bubbles, dispersion, and maneuvers. Buffs and debuffs are exponentially better than heals (not that heals aren't useful, but you need buffs and debuffs much more than you need heals).
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Originally Posted by MAD UMLAUTS
Depends if the attacks show up in the buffbar or not. Even if they don't it is not impossible.
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Originally Posted by Back Alley Brawler
Did you just use "casual gamer" and "purpled-out warshade" in the same sentence?
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What does that have to do with you thinking it's impossible. |
Originally Posted by ArcticFahx
Sure, it's not quite impossible. But Forting the blaster (and likely running Maneuvers, because it's taken on 90% of empaths) puts them at nearly 30% defense to all. Which means that of the two Rikti Chief Soldiers, the most likely number to hit at once is 0-1 (since each only has a 20%-ish chance of hitting). If you replace that empath with an FF defender, you get soft-cap between the individual bubbles, dispersion, and maneuvers. Buffs and debuffs are exponentially better than heals (not that heals aren't useful, but you need buffs and debuffs much more than you need heals).
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| No amount of reaction time with heals will save a blaster from two Rikti Soldiers aggroing on him at once. |
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Originally Posted by EvilRyu
If you want to have any remote chance of being able to solo then you want to do this as a mastermind or controller with good damage pets. Otherwise you will basically be riding a team to 50 if you want xp in a timely manner. As for as sets to heal empathy has always been the best. People always try to down play healing in this game when its has always been the best damage mitigation. As long as your reaction time is good it will serve you well regardless of the situation so long as there is no -heal being thrown around.
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and wow.Only one part of that do I agree with ... Empaths do have the strongest heals around, thou if you count ONLY the heals (HA, HO and AP) Pain does this almost as well.
Remote chance to solo >>> Have one Empath who has solo'd a level 53 mob in RWZ with no inspires, no deaths etc. pre Incarnate. Another solo'd thru the RWZ arcs on Unyielding until I ran into Sefu. "Remote" is safely in the realm of hyperbole at best.
Riding to 50 ... yeah that's an absurd statement unless one is playing Empathy quite poorly.
As for timely manner, that's very subjective. Will any of my Empaths ever solo like my Claws/SR or pretty much any other scrapper no not a chance in a gazillion. Silly to think they ever will. It's equally silly to think a second scrapper would speed up the first scrappers mission speeds anywhere near as much as my Empaths would. Not what either AT/sets are respectively designed to do.
Makes my want to use a 3rd build identical to my main Incarnate build but move all "heals" out of play and run 'normal' level 50 pug content. Wonder how many missions it would be before anyone would note that I've yet to throw a heal. Pretty safe bet it would be lot longer than if I did the inverse and only used my 3 heals.
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And actually, two chief soldiers hitting a blaster at the same time will kill him with no possibility to heal him. Each one would hit with an attack that does about 60% of the blaster's HP, and since they're two separate attacks, one-shot protection wouldn't apply.|
Originally Posted by MAD UMLAUTS
What does that have to do with you thinking it's impossible.
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And before you say it, I simply forgot to put Chief in my description of the two enemies. And 2 Chief Soldiers in a spawn does definitely happen on teams of decent size.
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Originally Posted by Back Alley Brawler
Did you just use "casual gamer" and "purpled-out warshade" in the same sentence?
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And them hitting on the exact same server tick happens all the time. Also blasters are stupid easy to hp cap
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Originally Posted by ArcticFahx
And actually, two chief soldiers hitting a blaster at the same time will kill him with no possibility to heal him. Each one would hit with an attack that does about 60% of the blaster's HP, and since they're two separate attacks, one-shot protection wouldn't apply.
And before you say it, I simply forgot to put Chief in my description of the two enemies. And 2 Chief Soldiers in a spawn does definitely happen on teams of decent size. |
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All he's trying to say is that "nothing but healing" won't keep the blaster alive. But, defense and or resistance buffs would keep the blaster alive.
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Originally Posted by MAD UMLAUTS
And them hitting on the exact same server tick happens all the time. Also blasters are stupid easy to hp cap
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Well, to be technically accurate.... Since we're thinking about hypothetical longshots (ie blaster with no def, res, or active mitigation of his own, and just standing there after gaining aggro, and they both hit at the exact same instant) than any amount of def might well not matter, as there is a chance of both hitting. And that chance doesn't fall to zero no matter how buffed his defense got. So def buffage isn't an automatic saviour either. But the res buffs might save him. If there were big enough +res buffs, they'd at least allow him to survive the first 2 simultaneous attacks, guarenteed. A KB or repel attack might save him, too.
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Originally Posted by Pyro_Master_NA
All he's trying to say is that "nothing but healing" won't keep the blaster alive. But, defense and or resistance buffs would keep the blaster alive.
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My thought was that the blaster would be attacking, and the defense would greatly increase his odds of killing them before they kill him. And at a 75% cap, I'm not sure if res alone would do it. Probably better than JUST healing, but not too far ahead with their low HP.
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Originally Posted by Madadh
Well, to be technically accurate.... Since we're thinking about hypothetical longshots (ie blaster with no def, res, or active mitigation of his own, and just standing there after gaining aggro, and they both hit at the exact same instant) than any amount of def might well not matter, as there is a chance of both hitting. And that chance doesn't fall to zero no matter how buffed his defense got. So def buffage isn't an automatic saviour either. But the res buffs might save him. If there were big enough +res buffs, they'd at least allow him to survive the first 2 simultaneous attacks, guarenteed. A KB or repel attack might save him, too.
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Oh I'd say if the Blaster was attacking, moving and otherwise acting remotely like he wanted to live and had anywhere near capped resists I'd be able to keep the Blaster alive with just healing (and assuming the aggro stayed on the Blaster). Of course, let me use my buffs and it reaches certainty if they still have the resistance. And it's probably near a certainty even if our Blaster doesn't have anything other than my buffs, of course, as the likelyhood of two simultaneously synched hits on an active Emp BUFFED Blaster (30% defense and 1000% regen from AB alone to 2000% for about 90 of every 120 seconds) who is only worrying about 2 foes is, about as likely as a some proverbial pigs or snowballs. Which, of course, is the whole point ... no resistance, no other buffs and I will have trouble even if it is doable. With buffs and it becomes more a question of how fast the blaster destroys the two bosses rather than IF he lives.
Healing in this game is probably the single *least* important form of mitigation available. It can be useful, but empathy's (for example) best powers are the buffs. If I was doing a +4/x8 TF, a 'pure healer' empath would be about the *last* character I would want along. No amount of healing is going to save a squishy who just pissed off a +4 rikti chief soldier, I want buffs and debuffs in that situation.