FUNdamental Design Problems (Longish)

I agree with pretty much all of the points in the OP. I have three characters who I've filled with T3 stuff by now, and have basically decided that the system isn't for me. The powers are really cool, but I just don't enjoy the Incarnate Trials. It's been a couple of months since I ran my last iTrial - I still haven't run the Underground yet, mostly because I haven't been able to find a league interested in braving that instead of yet another BAF or Lambda.

I agree with Smersh - there need to be some smaller trials. It's hard for me to really experience and care about the story when I can't actually run these things with my friends in character.

Also, the LFG tool needs to work. I haven't been able to use this to get on an Incarnate trial with any success since the week the system was first released. I don't know what the deal is, but that thing lies to me - it often claims to take less than five minutes to start an event, but I've sat in the queue for over an hour with no nibbles. I don't know how long it would actually take to get on an iTrial using just the LFG tool these days, because I tend to get frustrated and log off after 30-45 minutes. That said, the tool does work consistently for Death From Below and Dr. Kane's House of Horror. What's the difference? Is it a matter of seasonal popularity, or is it that these trials only take four people to run?

I'm quite excited about having a solo path. I would especially like to see more challenging content for regular-sized teams of level 50 characters - one of the worst things about the Incarnate system so far is that the rewards are so good, they pretty much trivialize the existing content if you have a few tricked out characters on your team. It's something of a problem in my supergroup. It would be great if the oft-suggested Incarnate Difficulty setting were a reality, or if there were a new zone designed for Incarnate-powered characters - anything to challenge such teams other than trials.

I like the trials. I think there are some things wrong with them. I dislike how long they take to form, which is related to them being designed for larger than 8-man teams. I dislike that I cannot progress my Incarnate status any other way, which makes me dependent on lots of other people getting together to form that larger-than-8-man team.

Now, we are told firmly that non-league content that will allow some sort of Incarnate progress is coming. I'm very interested in seeing to what degree this allows solo progress, not because I want to progress only solo, but I want to be able to make progress when I can't find at least 11 other players to form a league.

AmazingMOO pretty much sums up my objections to the system.

But I could put up with it, if there was a resonable alternative to do when burnt out on Inc Trials. But all there is is regular Trials or a MSR.

I just rejoined to play around with some of the new stuff. While some of it's fun, the incarnate system is terrible. Too long, too repetitive, too boring, too much of a PITA.

If I[m going put that kind of time into a game, it's going to be one with modern graphics and gameplay. There are too many MMOs coming down the pipe for me to invest that kind of time in a 7 year old game. If the incarnate system was fun and less of a long boring grind, I might actually keep a sub to play on different alts. After all, the casual, mostly solo experience that let me easily level up and really do stuff with a lot of alts is what got 5+ years of sub fees out of me in the first place.

Inventions made alting more of a pain, but it was doable. With the incarnates system, I'd have to devote too much time for even one character, and that robs the game of any of its potential fun factor.

It was an interesting visit back, but I won't be sticking around, and it's primarily due to the incarnate system feeling like an entirely different game than the CoH I remember.

When I first heard about the Incarnate system, I thought: Oh, another ridiculously repetitive end game gear grind. None for me, thanks, I'm on a game grind diet.

I haven't tried any of the raids, because I just don't like raiding (or even TFs for that matter), but I'm not surprised to hear that they follow the standard formula. The end game system is there for the achiever crowd who will keep on grinding to get that cool gear no matter how grindy it is. If that keeps more people in the game, that's fine by me.

I don't seriously expect the developers to make end game content that I would enjoy. Hopefully the Incarnate System doesn't turn out to be a lot of effort for a short term player retention. I've seen a case of critical raid retention failure, as not enough players stick around to provide teams for the raiders. Still, other games have managed to come up with something workable, so it's possible this might work out for a long term.

I just recently got my first charactor (old charactor, pre incarnate) to level 50. Started the incarnate thing, unlocked alpha slot. Took 20 minutes to figure out how to use the incarnate slots and how to earn what's required to do use the slots.

Went to pocket D, waited an hour for a group, joined a Lamda group. First time doing an incarnate trial, just followed along and did my best to support the group. By the time we clear the field and go to grab the grenades and acid half the league has left.. so they rush through the mobs to grabs the supplies.

I'm left wondering what the heck to do, attempt to follow through the base, get ambushed and rofled.

AV shows up, everyone starts fighting, I'm dieing.. a lot.. have no clue what the hell is going on, meanwhile everyone is yelling for people to get grenades to beat him.

Still confused, asking what to do.. getting yelled at, getting flamed for being a "noob", and the party scratches the entire trial.

So, 45 minutes of random stuff that I have no clue about what's going on, and what did I gain from it? I still don't know.. 2 empyrean merits.. oh boy.. what else? no one has the common courtesy to help me.

Honestly, I'm half tempted just to work on other toons and say screw it to the "uber godlike" incarnate BS.

The entire incarnate trial system leaves a sour taste in my mouth, and still, no one is willing to sit down and tell me what is going on.

As XG says, a lot of teams doing the trials go very fast..leaving very little time for a new player to actually work out what to do. Of course, there is a lot of people who will do this..and think..'Ok, time to go again and work it out! I wanna be more powerful!.' But there is also the groups of people who think..'45 of dying for..what?' and give up.

I dont think that is an entirely unrealistic attitude. There was the tread from Posi recently talking about changes to the trials and trying to work out why KR and UG werent being done as much as baf and lam. Ti anyone who has actually done all 4 trials..the reasons are glaringly obvious.

Regarding the changes made to Keyes..I think it is too later. Those people who didnt mind it, will keep doing it..but still not as much as baf/lam. And those who hater it, wont give a toss, and STILL wont do it.

To quote that famous saying..You can't please Everybody. Which is 100% true..but when everyone I know regards the incarnate stuff as a huge grind (not counting the fact it IS an mmo..grinding is what we do)...surely it is pretty damn clear that the way it works IS a grind?