FUNdamental Design Problems (Longish)

I think I'm gonna agree with a lot of what Moo said.

The Incarnate stuff just ain't up to scratch and actually in terms of content pales in comparison to older content.

What is worse, the older content isn't played as much because everyone wants the new shiny.

Golden Girl makes the point that we're missing out on story but there are two issues there that I shall try and summarise thusly: A) the story is pants and B) it's over too quick and gets repeated too often to be of interest. Aside from the cut scene of Mother's cleavage it just doesn't pass muster in comparison to what already exists in the game.

BAF and Lambda are run now not because they are good content, but because they are the quickest, most painless way to the REWARD.

I was so happy when GR came out but the rest has just disappointed

"You got to dig it to dig it, you dig?"
Thelonious Monk

My random observations, some of which have already been made in this thread:

-Raiding a military facility and rescuing brainwashed prisoners is not amazing epic content. Blueside, you've been doing that since level 20. It feels like content from the 30s, not Incarnate content.

-Shutting down a reactor before evil forces can make it explode? Since level 24, blueside.

-The Underground Trial would have been spectacular if it had been balanced as an 8 member taskforce. I loathe it as a 24-person raid.

-Praetorians are not and should not be the only Incarnate content. I understand the devs want to tell a story, but the Incarnate trials should be balanced. For every one Praetorian-oriented trial, there should be one of something else - some other world-shattering threat. Army of Rikti poised to land an invasion force on our Earth? Epic. Rularuu the Ravager preparing to devour our world? Hequat preparing to return to our dimension and wipe out the bloodline of Mu? Crey's latest Code Merlin is REALLY BAD? These are situations that call for Earth's mightiest superpowered beings.

-I just listed off a bunch of heroic epic examples. There should be roguish or villain-oriented Incarnate trials as well. Preferably pro-active ones.

-Don't tell me that facing off against a guy with a couple of guns for PR purposes is somehow epic.

-Even Apex and Tin Mage are better as Incarnate content than the trials (in terms of feeling epic.)

-You want a ready-made epic battle that's already been alluded to? Read the Ouroborus lore over again. Remember the unknown agency changing the past that the Menders are fighting against? Remember the mysterious influence of Nemesis, who is breaking the rules of time travel when he appears as Mender Silos? Remember that there are 12 other methods of time travel, and eras other than ancient Rome?

If you can't make Incarnate content out of that, you're not trying.

-In my Incarnate content, I want the feeling of surmounting insurmountable odds. Give me a team of Archvillains that work together. Give me an army of Rikti. Don't give me one dude I already soloed drinking some Enriche - that I need 15 friends to beat up. That's insulting. It's like claiming that I should feel special that I soloed a Council minion, just because his flavor text says that they're as good as an entire commando team.

-I've played this game since launch, and I loved the 8-person teaming mechanic. It was just right to give an Avengers team feeling. 24 people is ridiculous, unwieldy and doesn't fit the genre - outside of truly cosmic threats (I'm looking at you, Anti-Monitor from 1985) 24 superheroes going against one guy is just silly. Especially a guy with a pair of pistols or big metal gloves that are ESTABLISHED as being the guy with the metal gloves or the guy with the guns.

-Likewise, 8 persons on a team generally gives everyone an opportunity to shine, to throw in a witty quip, or to do something else memorable. 24 people? I don't remember anyone I met running Incarnate trials on my main (though I did run into a handful of old faces.) Likewise, the trials are so focused on their unique mechanics that I found it virtually impossible to stay in character while running them - and I'm a seven-year RPer from Virtue running my main. Staying in character with him is practically second nature.

-Want to make it interesting? Bring in characters from the past who are starting to get their hands on a little Incarnate power. Frostfire. Alexander. The Envoy of Shadow. Hardcase. Maestro. King Midas. Duke Mordragar. An Incarnate trial centered around the Golden Giza and featuring Hardcase as the antagonist would be a great thing. Likewise, the Striga Island Incarnate Trial should be spectacular.

-The mechanics of the Incarnate Trials are decent enough. The window dressing sucks. And there need to be a few 8-person trials to counterbalance the horrendously bloated 24-person trials.

-Don't make me do something ten times, then make me do it again slightly differently another ten times, then make me do it ten more times yet another way. That's bloat. Keep the trials lean and story-focused. The mechanics should serve the story.

There are more, but those are a few of my issues.

Just throwing it out there, but they really, really should have stuck to the Tin Mage and Apex model for Trials.

Taking down Neuron? Check. And THEN beating the snot out off his ticked of hench-kitty? Yeah, you might be able to solo Hamidon, chicka, but you ain't a patch on US!

And even if the Battle Maiden fight was frustrating at times on an MM, it was still fun.

Trials? Nah. Nowhere near as epic feeling.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zwillinger GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Photon NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

The reason the incarnate system needs to be incentivized at a higher (not neccessarily different, but they picked that way) level than regular content (exception: Hami and Mothership raids) is becuase they require a lot more people. More people=more time required to get it going=More time=More Rewards.

That's really it.

These incarnate trials are meant to be hard, it seem like you guys always want it too be easy. I don't want thing to be easy and i won't mind failing or getting my but kick once in a while.