I farmed lowbies for free in PI on my Fire/kin, In Grandville on my Dom and now I farm lowbies for free when I have time in Atlas on Freedom.
If the change goes live I will farm lowbies in Atlas on Freedom for free as I have since I returned from my hiatus.
Nothing done in adjusting the governor like Marty, rez xp, ambush etc... is going to stop me from farming lowbies for free.
Governor adjustments don't really bother folks that are not doing it solely from the min/max perspective. I like to help people to have fun and have a boat load of fun in the process of doing so. YMMV.
If you need some levels and I have the time come at me on Lil Firepaw in Atlas on Freedom.
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
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Well the dev's have long said this game is balanced around SO's. (I know...LOL). Yet they allow invention sets which allow amazing set bonuses, and incarnate powers which put some toon's power into the stratosphere. Of course my 9 billion inf brute can defeat enemies much faster and with laughable risk than Joe Blow using SO's. But that is why I built him the way I did. This applies to AE, as well as dev created content. Most of my admittedly PL'd and io'd toons can breeze through dev content. Is that my fault for having tons of inf, and good builds? Is it theirs for presenting their vanilla difficulty content to an io'd powerhouse and expecting the same risk/reward? Is it anyone's fault? I'm not sure of the answer since they allow awesome toons to exist using their own invention system which can do things better, faster, easier than what the game is supposedly balanced around. |
Originally Posted by Evangel_NA
I did use sarcastic orange...
Hate to tell you, PL'ing via farming, is - by its very definition - an exploit. Earning any form of reward at a rate higher than intended by the designer of a system is an exploit. I can provide dictionary definitions for you to solidfy that point but that would rude, don't you think? |
But the solution isn't as easy as"ramping up the game's difficulty", because some people have a hard enough time now defeating missions on 0x1. It's not their fault they can't compete with me, but it's not mine either, in my opinion.
Actually AE is an area in the game where you can actually get the highest level of challenge in the game fighting level 54 extremes.
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
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Yes and no. There's some pretty powerful stuff that can be made with customs but we're limited to what powersets we can have and we lack any form of traps, direct spawn control, or specialized triggers so by default incarnate content and maybe some specific TFs/SFs will always be harder as far as tactics versus raw numbers.
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Originally Posted by Darth_Khasei
Actually AE is an area in the game where you can actually get the highest level of challenge in the game fighting level 54 extremes.
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You are correct sir.
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Originally Posted by Zamuel
Yes and no. There's some pretty powerful stuff that can be made with customs but we're limited to what powersets we can have and we lack any form of traps, direct spawn control, or specialized triggers so by default incarnate content and maybe some specific TFs/SFs will always be harder as far as tactics versus raw numbers.
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The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
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Says who?|
Originally Posted by Venture
That's right. If you're a munchkin, you're not in the "pro AE" crowd. You're the enemy.
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I'm a pro-AE player who likes to farm, run storyarcs, pvp, play the market, RP, run player events, run CoH websites, and overall act like the biggest dog this game has ever seen.
I'm a rockenrolla get at me.
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Originally Posted by Venture
Simply put, this town ain't big enough for both of us.
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Originally Posted by Clave_Dark_5
So very signed. It's funny, because the fact they keep dropping nerfs is a form of telling us what they do and don't find acceptable, and yet they can't seem to get themselves to actually put it into words... we need a burning bush, a list of commandments written in stone to make it all clear. It would at least be polite of them.
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Ooooooooh. Sarcastic orange. I'll make a note of that in the future.|
Originally Posted by Evangel_NA
I did use sarcastic orange...
Hate to tell you, PL'ing via farming, is - by its very definition - an exploit. Earning any form of reward at a rate higher than intended by the designer of a system is an exploit. I can provide dictionary definitions for you to solidfy that point but that would rude, don't you think? |
In the meantime, PLing is still not the same as exploiting. It's nice you'd like to shoe horn it into being so, but all your rhetoric does nothing. If I invite someone to my team, set it for +4, x8 (because I'm IO'd to ridiculous efficiency) and then earn them XP at faster rates, guess what, I'm doing so within the confines the Devs have established for me and my teammates. And that's not even stepping into the AE.
Just because you don't approve of it yourself, doesn't make it wrong. LRN2PLAY without caring so much about how others do it.
@Rylas
Kill 'em all. Let XP sort 'em out.
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Exploit, by definition, is not the bad word you make it out to be.
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Originally Posted by Evangel_NA
I did use sarcastic orange...
Hate to tell you, PL'ing via farming, is - by its very definition - an exploit. Earning any form of reward at a rate higher than intended by the designer of a system is an exploit. I can provide dictionary definitions for you to solidfy that point but that would rude, don't you think? |
The only definition that matters is that of the developers. If they define farming as an exploit, then we wouldn't be allowed to discuss it here on the forums.
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True.|
Originally Posted by magitek
The only definition that matters is that of the developers.
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| If they define farming as an exploit, then we wouldn't be allowed to discuss it here on the forums. |
The overall pattern of enforcement - nerfs, bans, etc - is fairly clear, at least to me. The fact that this enforcement is not total or instant does not, IMO, make the behavior permissible or officially condoned. It just means they haven't gotten around to smacking you yet, or don't have the manpower to arrest everyone who speeds.
My characters at Virtueverse
Faces of the City
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Permissible is not the same as officially condoned. We've got an entire topic about farming here; if it was considered an actual exploit then we wouldn't be having this conversation here.|
Originally Posted by Megajoule
True.
And if speeding was wrong, it would be impossible to drive faster than the speed limit, or a cop would instantly appear and arrest you when you did. Right? The overall pattern of enforcement - nerfs, bans, etc - is fairly clear, at least to me. The fact that this enforcement is not total or instant does not, IMO, make the behavior permissible or officially condoned. It just means they haven't gotten around to smacking you yet, or don't have the manpower to arrest everyone who speeds. |
Now, if you're saying that they're just enforcing their "vision", maybe you're on to something. Then again, using the developer's vision as an argument here does not work when you are simultaneously arguing against their vision in other things, like the iTrials reward fiasco. The player base has already had its share of divine vision interfering with people's preferred styles of play, and I had hoped that that had left along with Jack. Maybe when the vision suddenly changes to "maximize revenue in the F2P model," player preferences fall by the wayside.
This whole thing would not even be an issue if the developers would just come out and tell us whatever the metric is that we're supposed to be conforming to, but perhaps "we want it to take two months to hit 50 so you'll buy XP boosters" and "we want it to take forever to fully-slot your Incarnate powers so you'll keep your sub up" are not palatable statements to NCSoft's marketing gods.
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The only thing I have officially seen as to what mobs should face as a challenge was way back when the 1 hero equals 3 mobs. I assume none of your toons are able to handle more than three even conned mobs correct? Otherwise, by your definition, officially speaking, you are an exploiter as well.|
Originally Posted by Megajoule
The overall pattern of enforcement - nerfs, bans, etc - is fairly clear, at least to me. The fact that this enforcement is not total or instant does not, IMO, make the behavior permissible or officially condoned. It just means they haven't gotten around to smacking you yet, or don't have the manpower to arrest everyone who speeds.
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Have you run the same content twice on the same toon ever? Or do you run it just once and say that that is it. Probably never ran the itf more than once per toon for example, wouldn't want people to think you are farming it and all.
Dont worry it is not so bad. It is fairly clear, at least to me judging by how many times one needs to run the itrials to get all kitted out that the devs are actually fine with and promote farming.
I think most of the playerbase has farmed to some degree at some point in their gaming career for a reward. Whether it's xp, inf, recipes, candy canes, incarnate shards/threads, going for certain badges, etc there's a lot of things in city of heroes that can only be gathered by players purposely doing the same thing a lot of times. Farming in one way or another is going to be a fact of life in any mmo. The major problem NCSoft would have, even if they didn't officially condone farming, would be alienating and losing those paying players who do like it.
Pick a number from 0-100. Say it represents the actual percentage of people who farm in city of heroes. Any number greater than zero is possibly lost revenue to them for no real return. Sure it might make the existing players who hate farming happier, but they are already paying regardless. So why risk losing other paying customers who choose to play the game differently than others?
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Sounds about right for my defenders and controllers. :/ I rarely ever bump them higher than +0x1, even after they get SOs. I was also bemused by the complaints when people could no longer herd and/or nuke entire maps, because I had never tried or even considered such a thing.|
Originally Posted by SinisterDirge
The only thing I have officially seen as to what mobs should face as a challenge was way back when the 1 hero equals 3 mobs. I assume none of your toons are able to handle more than three even conned mobs correct? Otherwise, by your definition, officially speaking, you are an exploiter as well.
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| Have you run the same content twice on the same toon ever? Or do you run it just once and say that that is it. |
Lately I've repeated the Haunted House mission a few times when the first attempt at getting the 99 zombies badge fails (due to inadequate DPS or AoE, usually).
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| Probably never ran the itf more than once per toon for example, wouldn't want people to think you are farming it and all. |
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| Dont worry it is not so bad. It is fairly clear, at least to me judging by how many times one needs to run the itrials to get all kitted out that the devs are actually fine with and promote farming. |
And with regard to the other poster: yes, I frequently disagree with the Devs. But I still play by the rules in the game, rather than looking for ways around them or methods of obeying them in letter while flaunting them in spirit. I am, genuinely, a law-abiding and non-envelope-pushing citizen, in game as well as in RL.
My characters at Virtueverse
Faces of the City
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This is kind of the point. The rules are not defined. By nerfing things without explanation, they're effectively creating a law that's all spirit and no letter. If Posi were to come out and say "going from 1-50 in anything less than 20 hours of constant gameplay is out-of-bounds and will get something nerfed", then far fewer people would have a problem with these changes. Plenty of people might disagree with the numbers (as with MARTy), but there'd be no grounds for any exploit/not-exploit argument.
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Originally Posted by Megajoule
And with regard to the other poster: yes, I frequently disagree with the Devs. But I still play by the rules in the game, rather than looking for ways around them or methods of obeying them in letter while flaunting them in spirit.
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Because players always have and always will pervert and exploit any letter or hard(-coded) rule they're given. The Devs have that much clue, at least. (If they didn't before the AE launch, they sure do now. Hell, there were players taking the devs to task for not knowing this and for showing the players any trust at all, making it all THEIR fault.)
EDIT: Another reason that the Devs can't give you a list of all the things you shouldn't do is that they probably literally can't conceive of some of the (ab)uses that the clever and unprincipled might put their tools to, until someone actually does. They give us a set of paints, and people start huffing them or covering the walls with graffiti.
"Well, why did you give me a car if you didn't want me to run people over with it? You should have said something, or made it impossible for me to do that! It's not MY fault, and I shouldn't be held responsible."
My characters at Virtueverse
Faces of the City
Comedy.
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
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I'm not asking for a list of specific things not to do, because I agree that that's cumbersome for all the reasons you listed. Jack had, at one point, put forth his "one hero equals three minions" dreck, with the idea being that powers would be balanced around that. While I think that particular number was moronic, it's basically the same type of thing I'd like to hear from the developers.|
Originally Posted by Megajoule
Because players always have and always will pervert and exploit any letter or hard(-coded) rule they're given. The Devs have that much clue, at least. (If they didn't before the AE launch, they sure do now. Hell, there were players taking the devs to task for not knowing this and for showing the players any trust at all, making it all THEIR fault.)
EDIT: Another reason that the Devs can't give you a list of all the things you shouldn't do is that they probably literally can't conceive of some of the (ab)uses that the clever and unprincipled might put their tools to, until someone actually does. They give us a set of paints, and people start huffing them or covering the walls with graffiti. "Well, why did you give me a car if you didn't want me to run people over with it? You should have said something, or made it impossible for me to do that! It's not MY fault, and I shouldn't be held responsible." |
If they say 1-50 should take 20 hours and will make changes to any/all game systems to achieve that, that's great. I may not agree with the idea of 20 hours, but I would be fully aware that anything which gets me to 50 under that time is in danger of being nerfed. If I abused something which got me to 50 faster than that, I'd have no basis for complaint when it got fixed.
Okay, that seems fair to me.
(And I agree that was a stupid "law", and not the only one Jack made, but it was still "the law", as it were.)
My characters at Virtueverse
Faces of the City
Speaking as one who couldn't really care less if you farm 'til you're blue in the face and fall off your computer chair, I'd still like to see the AE cleaned up somewhat. Get rid of all the broken, unplayable arcs owned by people who don't have an active sub/access to the AE building, for starters.
Maybe put a system into place where, if your arc hits the one star mark after five votes, it gets booted out of the system. Not necessarily locked out, or anything, just cleared out for the time being so that the already creaky search engine isn't so hideously clogged. Or at least let us flag arcs so that the devs can sit an intern down to give them a look-see and check if they're worth the disk space they're occupying.
"A soft answer turneth away wrath. Once wrath is looking the other way, shoot it in the head." Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates
MA Arcs: #12285, "Small Fears", #106553, "Trollbane", #12669, "How to Survive a Robot Uprising"
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That strikes me as highly abusable.|
Originally Posted by TeChameleon
Maybe put a system into place where, if your arc hits the one star mark after five votes, it gets booted out of the system.
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I agree with your general principle though
This is a song about a super hero named Tony. Its called Tony's theme.
Jagged Reged: 23/01/04
Why not have the dev team do a system-wide purge of all AE arcs that implement any of the following:
1) Critters that inflict only one type of damage.
2) Any ambushes whatsoever.
3) Any maps that place a glowie or clickable ally in the first room.
4) Any AE mission that uses less than 1000 words for script
5) Any AE mission with more than 3000 plays (which likely whacks most farms)
Sure this will hurt AE story arcs some as well, but the AE story community is already shooting themselves in the head by clamoring for farm nerfs so the good here outweighs the bad right?
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Maybe not any, but I'd go for 'All' That way its less likely to kill actual arcs, and far more likely to burn farm arcs.
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Originally Posted by Crysys
Why not have the dev team do a system-wide purge of all AE arcs that implement any of the following:
1) Critters that inflict only one type of damage. 2) Any ambushes whatsoever. 3) Any maps that place a glowie or clickable ally in the first room. 4) Any AE mission that uses less than 1000 words for script 5) Any AE mission with more than 3000 plays (which likely whacks most farms) Sure this will hurt AE story arcs some as well, but the AE story community is already shooting themselves in the head by clamoring for farm nerfs so the good here outweighs the bad right? |
The devs have this under control.
No real need for a bunch of terrible player ideas attempting to punish a certain play style that you don't like. That would be petty and childish. Oh forgot where I was for a second. Carry on...
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
Sound good?!??!!??
"Memories" - The Evangel Farewell Video