How to survive being sidekicked to L50?
For context, I'll just point out that my L32 Brute already has all the defenses she'll ever have, short of Incarnate powers or set IO bonuses. My slotting policy for melee toons is to prioritize defenses over dps, and so at L32 her defenses are already slotted for maximum effect. She's got L30 generic IOs slotted in every defense slot, which means she has the equivalent of green SO+ enhancements that never diminish in value. I'm told that all-SO builds can survive the "end game", that set IOs are not imperative for survivability, but maybe that isn't true for the +4/x8 style of "end game" play?
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+4/x8 is in no way "end game" play, it's people turning the dial up to 11 because it's possible to overpower our characters to a truly sick level once you start using IOs and Incarnate powers.
It's a pity in a way, because it ends up trivializing so much of the old content.
What Brillig said. I would also point out that the expectation that a level 32 will somehow contribute to a team the same way as the level 50 they're sidekicked to is kind of insane. Would a level 14 contribute much to a level 32 team?
"You don't lose levels. You don't have equipment to wear out, repair, or lose, or that anyone can steal from you. About the only thing lighter than debt they could do is have an NPC walk by, point and laugh before you can go to the hospital or base." -Memphis_Bill
We will honor the past, and fight to the last, it will be a good way to die...
That's a fair question.
I guess I figured that since my defenses were already maximally slotted that I wouldn't expect to be any less survivable sidekicked to 50 than just running at my natural level of 32. But the difficulty setting makes a huge difference I guess. I don't encounter that many mid-level teams running at +4/x8; that seems to be more the purview of all the 50s out there looking for a challenge.
A 14 isn't going to have as many enhancement slots as a 32, nor as many attacks to build attack chains as a 32, nor is a 14 likely to be as endurance efficient as a 32, so naturally I wouldn't expect similar performance. But the number of attacks I have at 32 is pretty much the same as any L50 (who isn't pimped out with Incarnate powers), so it's not like I lack for available firepower. My attacks aren't slotted as heavily yet, since I prioritize defenses, but my ability to "contribute" kind of has less to do with dps and more to do with how often I seem to faceplant.
NOR-RAD - 50 Rad/Rad/Elec Defender - Nikki Stryker - 50 DM/SR/Weap Scrapper - Iron Marauder - 50 Eng/Eng/Pow Blaster
Lion of Might - 50 SS/Inv/Eng Tanker - Darling Nikkee - 50 (+3) StJ/WP/Eng Brute - Ice Giant Kurg - 36 Ice/Storm Controller
"You don't lose levels. You don't have equipment to wear out, repair, or lose, or that anyone can steal from you. About the only thing lighter than debt they could do is have an NPC walk by, point and laugh before you can go to the hospital or base." -Memphis_Bill
We will honor the past, and fight to the last, it will be a good way to die...
Q: How to survive being sidekicked to L50?
A: Make sure there's a buff-capable AT on the team before accepting the invite.
So I've noticed that it is extremely common for teams of 50s to run around doing missions at +2/x8 or +4/x8. And, to their credit, they rarely ever balk at inviting heroes of any and all levels to join them. The problem, of course, is that those L50s are geared up to be able to handle +2/x8 or +4/x8 whereas most mid-level toons are not. That means a rather poor survivability rate for those of us who join up with our lower level toons.
Is there any advice, short of "Don't join teams of 50s", that would help make adventuring with them more survivable? If I hang back and jump in (with my Brute) only when it feels "safe", I survive longer but I don't really feel like much of a hero, and I certainly don't feel like I'm "pulling my weight" for the team either. For context, I'll just point out that my L32 Brute already has all the defenses she'll ever have, short of Incarnate powers or set IO bonuses. My slotting policy for melee toons is to prioritize defenses over dps, and so at L32 her defenses are already slotted for maximum effect. She's got L30 generic IOs slotted in every defense slot, which means she has the equivalent of green SO+ enhancements that never diminish in value. I'm told that all-SO builds can survive the "end game", that set IOs are not imperative for survivability, but maybe that isn't true for the +4/x8 style of "end game" play? |
That's right! They have all the shiny IO's beefing them up so let them take the brunt of the initial strike and then you follow up with your own abilities!
Jem - Ill/Rad Controller Lv 50+3 Nic - Mind/Psi Dominator Lv 50+3 Lady Liberation - Invuln/SS Tanker Lv 50+1 Invicitx - Demon/Pain Mastermind Lv 50+1 Celeste - Emp/Arch Defender Lv 50+1 Nightsilver - DB/WP Scrapper Lv 34 Dusk Howl - StJ/Regen Brute Lv 32 Kyriani - Time/Energy Defender Lv 41Psifire - FF/Psi Defender Lv 50
Star Lighter - LB/LA Peacebringer Lv 30
I'd say bite off what you can chew in the mission, and don't expect to pull your full weight. As a Brute, dont expect to take the alpha, but helping with the clean up after the alpha strike on each group is fine.
A level 50 team running +4/x8 could probably steamroll with half the members, but have invited you and other mid/lowbies for the company, because its the nice thing to do, and to break up the tedium of running solo or in small groups.
If anyone gives you grief for not pulling your weight in this situation, they're being unrealistic, so don't beat yourself up about it. Just enjoy the ride.
Lowbie sidekicked to a boosted 50 team: don't take more than you can chew. This means you'll want to dial back your normal playstyle so that you don't overrun the natural 50s (possible 50+1s).
Remember: you're not sidekicked to level 50...you're actually combat level 49, so you're already one level worse, and the higher the difficulty is, the less effective you are - even if you're running natural level content, if you boost your difficulty up you'll be less effective. That's just how the game works. But sidekicked up, you have an automatic one level deficiency versus doing your natural level content.
Pull back. Take a breath. Let someone else do the heavy lifting.
But most important: Have fun. Don't worry about not pulling all of your weight. It won't be noticed.
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The statement that SO's were sufficient for all content in the game only applied to +0/x1
+4/x8 is in no way "end game" play, it's people turning the dial up to 11 because it's possible to overpower our characters to a truly sick level once you start using IOs and Incarnate powers. It's a pity in a way, because it ends up trivializing so much of the old content. |
*WHIFF*WHIFF*WHIFF*WHIFF*
Durn it!
*WHIFF*WHIFF*WHIFF*WHIFF*
DURN IT!
*WHIFF*WHIFF*WHIFF*WHIFF*
!&$#%@(%HS&*@HD(*@($^%!OH*Y#@(*#^*$*&*#!!!!!!!!!!! !!!
For context, I'll just point out that my L32 Brute already has all the defenses she'll ever have, short of Incarnate powers or set IO bonuses. My slotting policy for melee toons is to prioritize defenses over dps, and so at L32 her defenses are already slotted for maximum effect. She's got L30 generic IOs slotted in every defense slot, which means she has the equivalent of green SO+ enhancements that never diminish in value. I'm told that all-SO builds can survive the "end game", that set IOs are not imperative for survivability, but maybe that isn't true for the +4/x8 style of "end game" play?
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Also I'm curious about what you plan to get with your remaining 18 levels if it's not including ANY defenses. As pointed out you're lacking moment of glory, but you may or may not have tough, weave and maneuvers already. You definitely don't have any patron/APP picks yet and several of those are very powerful defensive tools. For example, one of my brutes has darkest night from Soul Mastery, and several other options include debuffs or other support (sleep and knock in earth, immobilizes and holds in several sets, physical perfection gives some +regen). All the dark attacks have -tohit.
So you may very well get significantly tougher before you hit 50 and the incarnate/IO stuff.
"Hmm, I guess I'm not as omniscient as I thought" -Gavin Runeblade.
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Thank you everyone at Paragon and on Virtue. When the lights go out in November, you'll find me on Razor Bunny.
I think that you should probably just play bodyguard and look out for the squishies. You may have all the defensive powers, but you won't have all the slots.
On the bright side, any debt you get is gone pretty fast.
Just relax and don't worry about defeats - unless they are because you're doing something crazy, like trying to tank at +5.
"Most people that have no idea what they are doing have no idea that they don't know what they are doing." - John Cleese
@Ukase
Teams are the number one killer of soloists.
Inspirations.
The statement that SO's were sufficient for all content in the game only applied to +0/x1
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You need to know your character and what it's capable of, however.
I read a lot of good advice above. One other thing to consider while you hang back and work on the easy stuff is that you are a lot more useful to the team doing that then being faceplanted.
This is incorrect, as people were running higher difficulties (on the old system) and asking people to pad so they could solo x8 before IOs.
You need to know your character and what it's capable of, however. |
Now just because SO's were sufficient for +0/x1 doesn't mean that characters were unable to complete higher difficulty content on SO's. That doesn't mean that you can complain that IO's aren't optional because you can't do +4/x8 on SO's.
No, that statement is 100% correct. When the devs said that SO's were sufficient, they were referring to base difficulty.
Now just because SO's were sufficient for +0/x1 doesn't mean that characters were unable to complete higher difficulty content on SO's. That doesn't mean that you can complain that IO's aren't optional because you can't do +4/x8 on SO's. |
Also I'm curious about what you plan to get with your remaining 18 levels if it's not including ANY defenses.
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My brute has Willpower, not Regeneration. But be that as it may, the build for this character is aimed mostly at character concept rather than min/max goals. I was not planning to take anything from the Fighting set since I don't need any more attacks and I don't want any more toggles. I was planning to take energy mastery in order to take the powers that add health and end recovery, but that's it (along with Stealth and Invisibility for concept and situational utility).
The idea behind this character is not to make her an off-tank, but to make her merely a more survivable scrapper. The DPS part of this plan will evolve from here on out as I start to slot up her attacks, and will eventually put Crushing Impact sets in five of her attacks, along with a Ragnarok set in Spinning Strike, etc. But all that set IO stuff will happen at L50.
At L32 I don't yet have my self Rez or the Last Stand power from 38. But neither one of those is used during normal combat routines. All my other defenses are already slotted the way they will be when I'm 50, it's just that they aren't slotted with L50 IOs yet (obviously), but with L30 IOs instead, which are the equivalent to green SO+ enhancements, which at one time in the game's history were considered pretty effective.
Everyone's advice has been very helpful, at least insofar as it helps me to scale back my own expectations as to what I should hope to accomplish when on these sorts of L50 teams. I'm glad I'm not the only one who finds his characters whiffing constantly and faceplanting without much warning.
And I've learned not to try and survive the alpha, but these teams of 50s do not seem terribly opposed to aggoing two or three x8 mobs at once, especially Arachnos mobs. Being overwhelmed is probably part of the fun for them, but for me it just means more time chewing on the floor. Oy veh.
NOR-RAD - 50 Rad/Rad/Elec Defender - Nikki Stryker - 50 DM/SR/Weap Scrapper - Iron Marauder - 50 Eng/Eng/Pow Blaster
Lion of Might - 50 SS/Inv/Eng Tanker - Darling Nikkee - 50 (+3) StJ/WP/Eng Brute - Ice Giant Kurg - 36 Ice/Storm Controller
Honestly? My solution is "don't team with 50s." I know exactly where you're coming from. I hate being in a situation where I could contribute more to the team by doorsitting and staying out of trouble, so I avoid those situations wherever possible.
34 heroes,
20 villains, Victory, Justice, Infinity, Virtue, Triumph, Exalted -- some more active than others
So I've noticed that it is extremely common for teams of 50s to run around doing missions at +2/x8 or +4/x8. And, to their credit, they rarely ever balk at inviting heroes of any and all levels to join them. The problem, of course, is that those L50s are geared up to be able to handle +2/x8 or +4/x8 whereas most mid-level toons are not. That means a rather poor survivability rate for those of us who join up with our lower level toons.
Is there any advice, short of "Don't join teams of 50s", that would help make adventuring with them more survivable? If I hang back and jump in (with my Brute) only when it feels "safe", I survive longer but I don't really feel like much of a hero, and I certainly don't feel like I'm "pulling my weight" for the team either.
For context, I'll just point out that my L32 Brute already has all the defenses she'll ever have, short of Incarnate powers or set IO bonuses. My slotting policy for melee toons is to prioritize defenses over dps, and so at L32 her defenses are already slotted for maximum effect. She's got L30 generic IOs slotted in every defense slot, which means she has the equivalent of green SO+ enhancements that never diminish in value. I'm told that all-SO builds can survive the "end game", that set IOs are not imperative for survivability, but maybe that isn't true for the +4/x8 style of "end game" play?
NOR-RAD - 50 Rad/Rad/Elec Defender - Nikki Stryker - 50 DM/SR/Weap Scrapper - Iron Marauder - 50 Eng/Eng/Pow Blaster
Lion of Might - 50 SS/Inv/Eng Tanker - Darling Nikkee - 50 (+3) StJ/WP/Eng Brute - Ice Giant Kurg - 36 Ice/Storm Controller