Banned names "Generic 123 456 789"

Blue_Centurion · 10-12-2011 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Justice Blues

The character was named ERG-1. He is better known these days as Wildfire. Not really a problem with your current name, but you may want to avoid dropping the Z from the beginning.

ARGH! - mebbe i should just go with that, Argh? prob taken. Anyways was just thinking of Erg, or Erg^2 or something like that. Getting frustrating. I ran around with a character called Scourge 23 for 4 months, and he was carrying 5 sets of purples. Are we completely relegated to characters with names like ("Flamezy"-an actual character of mine 4 bill build SS/FA/MU). ("This'll work" - my wife saw this at Fort Mercy, and still suggests it to me from time to time), or ("Black fortuna X1J" - k, I made that one up) in the cities? All the decent names are either way too long, trademarked, copywrote, or were created one time long ago by a player on a dead account that Cox will not delete.

Wing_Leader · 10-12-2011 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blue_Centurion

All the decent names are either way too long, trademarked, copywrote, or were created one time long ago by a player on a dead account that Cox will not delete.

This is certainly a problem on Virtue and Freedom, and to an extent I sympathize with you. But as much as I wish some of those old, dead accounts would just get name-wiped, I'm also glad they weren't because I returned to the game after a 3-year hiatus and I'm very pleased to have all my old characters, names intact, still available to me.

NOR-RAD - 50 Rad/Rad/Elec Defender - Nikki Stryker - 50 DM/SR/Weap Scrapper - Iron Marauder - 50 Eng/Eng/Pow Blaster
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PSLAnimal · 10-12-2011 08:56 PM

Once again, the finer points of trademark law don't apply here.

NCSoft owns the servers. They are private property. They can generic or delete your character for any reason they please. From what I've seen over the last six years and some-odd months they err on the side of caution. If you're even close or there's some room for doubt, WHACK and you're Generic Hero 185 577 554.

So why push it? Make up an original name.

I used to fiddle with my back feet music for a black onyx. My entire room absorbed every echo. The music was . . . thud like. The music was . . . thud like. I usually played such things as rough-neck and thug. Opaque melodies that would bug most people. Music from the other side of the fence.

Forbin_Project · 10-13-2011 01:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PSLAnimal

Once again, the finer points of trademark law don't apply here.

NCSoft owns the servers. They are private property. They can generic or delete your character for any reason they please. From what I've seen over the last six years and some-odd months they err on the side of caution. If you're even close or there's some room for doubt, WHACK and you're Generic Hero 185 577 554.

So why push it? Make up an original name.

While all this is true, it's also true that there have been a few people to get their names back.

I've heard Jim Butcher has had to go thru this process several times over his Harry Dresden character.

Voidstalker · 10-13-2011 01:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Justice Blues

The character was named ERG-1. He is better known these days as Wildfire. Not really a problem with your current name, but you may want to avoid dropping the Z from the beginning.

There is (was?) also a Morlock called Erg. Chap with an eyepatch, involved in the whole 198 debacle.

Warbaby · 10-13-2011 02:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blue_Centurion

Well, my character looks nothing at all like the trademarked character (Who is not a robot). In fact, the costume is a wonderfully colorful robot that exists for my own reasons and concepts. One of the first persons that saw it in Atlas said "It looks like Salvador Dali built a robot." FTW! Of the alien race from the other game, also, not looking like an alien. Plus, its a whole race, not one character. And I didn't even find out about them until I googled the name the day after I made it up.

Still it is kind of annoying, in the back of my mind to think i could 50 this guy, I/O him, Incarnate him to the gills, only to be Generic'd. Wish there was a way to find out so I could trashcan him now.

Urkk! Why not name it Salfador Dali and be done with it?

There is always a lot to be thankful for, if you take the time to look. For example, I'm sitting here thinking how nice it is that wrinkles don't hurt. ~Author Unknown

St_Angelius · 10-13-2011 05:24 AM

I too have fallen afoul of being genericed once. I had a mercs/pain dom MM with a name that was the greek/proto indo-european word for new and the german word for guide/leader. The idea was a failed east european military dictator who joined up with the 5th column then went his oen way when they were taken over by the council. I got him up to the early 40's till I logged in one day to find him Genericed. After petitioning I found out that the german word, though still commonly used in germany, was the offending word. And dipite providing legitimate usages of the word was not allowed it back. I submitted 4 alternate name, all were rejected even though they did not have the offending german word in. but still had the word Neo, which was essential as he was the leader of a VG, Neo's world order, that would make no sense without someone called Neo-something as leader.

This was, incidently, at about the time the 5th column returned to the streets of PC and we gained the Reichsman TF. In the end I ended up just deleting him as I could not get a dozen name approved by the GM who was dealing with it. So yes, I can definatly advise caution.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CentralNexus

You could easily make an oversized blue guy in torn red pants-- but do green skin and purple pants? You ask too much. You can easily do stuff in the style, without crossing the line.

Funny you should say that I did once make that exact toon, for an SG cossie/concept comp, "Failed comic book characters". He was called the miserable sulk and was an SS/inv tank, only got him to 14 for what I concidered the core powers and was actually enjoying playing him, till one hour before the comp was about to start. I was heading across the the Hollows towards Atlas when I get the tell "haha, you're gonna get genericed". So after the comp I deleted him, just in case. Though I really wished I hadn't. was my second attemp at an SS/Inv tank, and was actually working, and surviving, unlike my first one who at L7 couldn't get past a group of 4 vahz... but then, he was the first toon I created. St Angelius, who then went on to be re-rolled as a dark/dark scrapper.

Well, I've started rambling so guess I should end this post now.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forbin_Project

Then it's time for them to get off the cross, use the wood to build a bridge, and get over it.

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Nitra · 10-13-2011 05:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PSLAnimal

Once again, the finer points of trademark law don't apply here.

NCSoft owns the servers. They are private property. They can generic or delete your character for any reason they please. From what I've seen over the last six years and some-odd months they err on the side of caution. If you're even close or there's some room for doubt, WHACK and you're Generic Hero 185 577 554.

So why push it? Make up an original name.

Exactly, they make things quite clear in the EULA, you have NO rights period, You pay to play with their stuff... The thing I don't get is... if you pick a name that you were not sure about why post it here in the open forum for everyone to see? Doesn't that increase the chance of getting hit? There is no doubt there are jerks out there that enjoy causing trouble by sending in petitions on names they think have a chance of getting gen'd why post here and help them... O_o

It's better to save the Mystery, than surrender to the secret...

ChrisMoses · 10-13-2011 06:40 AM

And an adjective or title descriptor.

(The) Ionic Erg
(The) Enigmatic Erg

You said you're a robot, maybe play that up. The Erg Reactor, The Erg Force, etc.

Or... Z-Erg, X-Erg... Oh, or my favorite: Ergonomics.

Thanks for eight fun years, Paragon.

Blue_Centurion · 10-13-2011 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PSLAnimal

So why push it? Make up an original name.

In my opinion this is an original name.

I draw, I paint, I play music. I make up endless characters in this game, and for about a dozen over the table games with my friends. I mention this to let you know my background of providing review to fellow artists, musicians, and gamers.

The character concept has absolutely nothing to do with the character that has trademark protection. The name is not the same. It is a similar name, but only because I built it off of ERG. The name is the same as a starcraft alliance race, which I knew nothing about. Also, that refers to a whole insectoid race.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warbaby

Urkk! Why not name it Salfador Dali and be done with it?

I said the character is extremely colorful. Someone saw it and said "It looks like Salvador Dali built a robot." I specifically was not trying to make anything derivative of Dali's work when I made the character. Dali's work had a dreamish quality and was surreal. It featured many impossible things. Theree is nothing impossible about my bot, err, except I still am unclear on how slowly flapping wings make a 1 ton bot fly... But yeah, nothing unreal there. Hrm. It is rather improbable also for the paint job, but not impossible. I can see and appreciate why someone made the comment, and I took it as a compliment. But I just will not make a "Dali Bot", and it was not where I started with this at all.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nitra

Exactly, they make things quite clear in the EULA, you have NO rights period, You pay to play with their stuff... The thing I don't get is... if you pick a name that you were not sure about why post it here in the open forum for everyone to see? Doesn't that increase the chance of getting hit? There is no doubt there are jerks out there that enjoy causing trouble by sending in petitions on names they think have a chance of getting gen'd why post here and help them... O_o

I get quite attached to my characters. I came here once I had concerns for advice. It did not take long for a clever gamer to realize what the name was. I come here to talk to the clever people. I have gotten some good advice, and should get a ruling shortly on whether I am okay to run with this or not. I prefer the short powerful memorable name of Zerg. Rather than "Zergometric bot 42". But I came here for help and clarification. I have received help, and am awaiting clarification. I will definitely let everyone know the answer.

Wing_Leader · 10-13-2011 11:46 AM

I think the thread has split into two separate lines of discussion.

One line covers the issues surrounding Blue Centurion's actual character, which is not in danger of violating any IP (though that may not be protection enough against being generic'ed; being in the right isn't usually sufficient defense against lawsuits in this country). The other line covers the general subject of characters that clearly do cross IP boundaries. I hope Blue doesn't start to feel that the latter discussion is meant to apply to the former, because it doesn't.

NOR-RAD - 50 Rad/Rad/Elec Defender - Nikki Stryker - 50 DM/SR/Weap Scrapper - Iron Marauder - 50 Eng/Eng/Pow Blaster
Lion of Might - 50 SS/Inv/Eng Tanker - Darling Nikkee - 50 (+3) StJ/WP/Eng Brute - Ice Giant Kurg - 36 Ice/Storm Controller

ObiWan · 10-13-2011 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisMoses

And an adjective or title descriptor.

(The) Ionic Erg
(The) Enigmatic Erg

You said you're a robot, maybe play that up. The Erg Reactor, The Erg Force, etc.

Or... Z-Erg, X-Erg... Oh, or my favorite: Ergonomics.

This, I've pretty much started adding titles to most of my new toons.

Forbin_Project · 10-13-2011 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blue_Centurion

In my opinion this is an original name.

I draw, I paint, I play music. I make up endless characters in this game, and for about a dozen over the table games with my friends. I mention this to let you know my background of providing review to fellow artists, musicians, and gamers.

The character concept has absolutely nothing to do with the character that has trademark protection. The name is not the same. It is a similar name, but only because I built it off of ERG. The name is the same as a starcraft alliance race, which I knew nothing about. Also, that refers to a whole insectoid race.

Concerning names getting genericed your opinion doesn't matter. The only opinions that matter are the GM's who are paid to protect the company by enforcing the rules about copyright and trademark violations.

Wing_Leader · 10-13-2011 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forbin_Project

Concerning names getting genericed your opinion doesn't matter. The only opinions that matter are the GM's who are paid to protect the company by enforcing the rules about copyright and trademark violations.

Absolutely true.

But by the same token, are the GMs really doing the right thing by "enforcing" rules pertaining to copyright and trademark when no copyright or trademark is actually being violated? I think in a great many cases, the GMs are just making snap judgments out of fear. While this might be a sound strategy from a business perspective, it can't exactly be lauded as an admirable example of navigating the choppy waters of IP law in an informed or enlightened manner.

NOR-RAD - 50 Rad/Rad/Elec Defender - Nikki Stryker - 50 DM/SR/Weap Scrapper - Iron Marauder - 50 Eng/Eng/Pow Blaster
Lion of Might - 50 SS/Inv/Eng Tanker - Darling Nikkee - 50 (+3) StJ/WP/Eng Brute - Ice Giant Kurg - 36 Ice/Storm Controller

Eric Nelson · 10-13-2011 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wing_Leader

But by the same token, are the GMs really doing the right thing by "enforcing" rules pertaining to copyright and trademark when no copyright or trademark is actually being violated? I think in a great many cases, the GMs are just making snap judgments out of fear. While this might be a sound strategy from a business perspective, it can't exactly be lauded as an admirable example of navigating the choppy waters of IP law in an informed or enlightened manner.

If it protects this game from lawsuits, with or without merit, then the answer is that it absolutely is "doing the right thing".

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Katie V · 10-13-2011 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Commander

According to US trademark/copyright laws, you can legally skirt the law by changing at least 30% of the name/likeness. Since the difference between "Mork" and "Mark" is only 1 letter, which is valued as a 25% change, there would be grounds for a genericing whether or not they can prove that you intended to violate a trademark/copyright.

Wrong. Neither copyright nor trademark works that way.

Copyright infringement is about where you got something: you could take a poem, change every single word in it, and you'd still have a copyright violation, because of what your starting point was. Names can't be copyrighted, so this is irrelevant to City of Heroes character names.

Trademark infringement is about confusion: trademarks are about protecting symbols that indicate a specific provider of goods or services. If you're using a protected symbol (eg. "Superman") in a way that confuses people as to the source of something, or you're using a symbol (say, "Superguy") that could reasonably be mistaken for a protected symbol, you're infringing trademark. There's no hard-and-fast rule about how close you can get before you're considered infringing, rather, it's decided on a case-by-case basis in the courts.

In the case you specify ("Mark" versus "Mork"), there's no chance you'd be found infringing unless you're using it to name an Orkish god or an alien attempting to understand human behavior.

Justice Blues · 10-13-2011 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Voidstalker

There is (was?) also a Morlock called Erg. Chap with an eyepatch, involved in the whole 198 debacle.

Didn't know about him, stopped following the X people many many years ago.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blue_Centurion

ARGH! - mebbe i should just go with that, Argh? prob taken. Anyways was just thinking of Erg, or Erg^2 or something like that. Getting frustrating. I ran around with a character called Scourge 23 for 4 months, and he was carrying 5 sets of purples. Are we completely relegated to characters with names like ("Flamezy"-an actual character of mine 4 bill build SS/FA/MU). ("This'll work" - my wife saw this at Fort Mercy, and still suggests it to me from time to time), or ("Black fortuna X1J" - k, I made that one up) in the cities? All the decent names are either way too long, trademarked, copywrote, or were created one time long ago by a player on a dead account that Cox will not delete.

Yeah, you probably would get hit if you went with Erg, more from Voidstalker's example than mine, since the ERG-1 name was very short-lived and not many people would remember it. (It stood for Energy Release Generator. Which doesn't really make much sense. Good comic book name.

)

I don't agree that all the good names are taken, not even on Freedom and Virtue. Those two servers can be more challenging, but you just need to look for inspiration from other areas. Adding the Z to erg was a good one for you, there are other means. I use this list.

Godchecker.com - Over 3,000 different deities, demons, saints, martyrs, etc. in a searchable database. You want a Storm character from Australia? How about Bellin-Bellin. Lots of names, lots of inspiration.
Seventh Sanctum - Superhero/Villain Name Generator - Put in the parameters of the character, set how many names you want generated, and it gives you a list. Sometimes inspired, sometimes mundane. But there are also several other name generators for a lot of categories, which lets you cover just about anything possible in this game.
Behind the Name - Mythology Names - An alphabetical listing of name related to a wider variety of mythologies. Not as easy to use as Godchecker, but still very useful. And there are other sections of the site you can also use for inspiration.
NameandFame.org - Mythological and Religious Names - Again, not as easy to use as Godchecker, but useful.
Lee's Useless Super-Hero Generator - Despite the name, not at all useless. More useful for getting a concept for a character and a name to go with it, rather than matching a name to an existing concept.
Iconian Name Generator - Super Hero names - purely random name generation for super heroes. Can be used for inspir a character concept, but not really useful for finding a name to add to a concept.
The Phrontistery - Obscure English words. Not necessarily words that will work, but can be very useful for inspiration.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wing_Leader

Absolutely true.

But by the same token, are the GMs really doing the right thing by "enforcing" rules pertaining to copyright and trademark when no copyright or trademark is actually being violated? I think in a great many cases, the GMs are just making snap judgments out of fear. While this might be a sound strategy from a business perspective, it can't exactly be lauded as an admirable example of navigating the choppy waters of IP law in an informed or enlightened manner.

Frankly, the GMs are not supposed to be navigating anything, enlightened or not, especially the first level guys. They are supposed to help players with problems and when necessary enforce the rules of the game, especially the EULA. They are supposed to be the safe in "Better safe than sorry." They have some discretion, but not that much, which is as it should be when dealing directly with the public.

Even if a character is genericed, the ruling can be appealed. That is what the upper levels are for, to oversee and possibly change the decisions of the low level employees. As mentioned, Jim Butcher has had to do that several times when people have reported his Harry Dresden as an infringement. And other people have also appealed and got their names back after genericing. I would think Blue Centurion would have a good chance at that, since his Zerg doesn't really match any of the currently existing versions.

Justice Blues, Tech/Tank, Inv/SS
----------------------
Fighting The Future Trilogy
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Talen Lee · 10-13-2011 11:06 PM

On my main server, the name 'catgirl' got generic'd. Because it's too much like 'catwoman.'

Trust me, err on the side of caution.

Heroes, Villains ♦ Reviews ♦ Retrospect

GavinRuneblade · 10-13-2011 11:48 PM

Man a legitimate generic question. I came here hoping to see some good violations. Screw getting generic'd for trademark violation, I'm talking the ones that get it for just plain bad taste. Ah well.

Best of luck with your character BC, I hope they say you can keep the name!

And I really wish I'd saved the comic with his other generic'd character. Even better.

"Hmm, I guess I'm not as omniscient as I thought" -Gavin Runeblade.
I can be found, outside of paragon city here.
Thank you everyone at Paragon and on Virtue. When the lights go out in November, you'll find me on Razor Bunny.

Justice Blues · 10-14-2011 06:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Talen Lee

On my main server, the name 'catgirl' got generic'd. Because it's too much like 'catwoman.'

Trust me, err on the side of caution.

Well, there is also the fact that a Catgirl has been appearing in various Batman comics the last couple of years. And a couple have appeared in earlier times. Like the 1960 version in the Archie Comics super hero line, which may or may not be licensed by DC. And the one that appeared in the second Frank Miller Dark Knight series.

The GM may not have known about those (since they are not hired based on their knowledge of comics) and actually did the genericing for the reason you gave. But reality is, the name Catgirl used as a super-hero name is very much taken and has been for over 50 years.

Justice Blues, Tech/Tank, Inv/SS
----------------------
Fighting The Future Trilogy
----------------------

Ironblade · 10-14-2011 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wing_Leader

But by the same token, are the GMs really doing the right thing by "enforcing" rules pertaining to copyright and trademark when no copyright or trademark is actually being violated? I think in a great many cases, the GMs are just making snap judgments out of fear.

Poor choice of words. "Prudence" or "caution" would be more accurate.

Quote:

While this might be a sound strategy from a business perspective, it can't exactly be lauded as an admirable example of navigating the choppy waters of IP law in an informed or enlightened manner.

What's your point? Right at the beginning of your sentence, you admit it's a sound strategy from a business perspective. NCSoft is a gaming company, not a crusading free speech attorney.

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Wing_Leader · 10-14-2011 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric Nelson

If it protects this game from lawsuits, with or without merit, then the answer is that it absolutely is "doing the right thing".

Right, well, this sort of perspective is part of the reason why the current state of IP law is in such a miserable shambles. I realize that very little would be gained in the battle for reasonable IP law by NCSoft (and other companies in a similar position) sticking up for themselves, at great legal expense no doubt, but it is still disheartening nonetheless to see nobody even trying.

NOR-RAD - 50 Rad/Rad/Elec Defender - Nikki Stryker - 50 DM/SR/Weap Scrapper - Iron Marauder - 50 Eng/Eng/Pow Blaster
Lion of Might - 50 SS/Inv/Eng Tanker - Darling Nikkee - 50 (+3) StJ/WP/Eng Brute - Ice Giant Kurg - 36 Ice/Storm Controller

Wing_Leader · 10-14-2011 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ironblade

What's your point? Right at the beginning of your sentence, you admit it's a sound strategy from a business perspective. NCSoft is a gaming company, not a crusading free speech attorney.

Everyone and anyone who is in a position to be legally challenged on grounds of IP infringement has a stake in the laws themselves, whether they choose to acknowledge it as part of their business or not. This isn't about the First Amendment, by the way, but about the mess we call intellectual property law. IP law is a body of laws intended to protect the commercial interests of "artists", not to protect free speech. Any company that must change its practices because of IP law or the threat of IP lawsuits is part of the crusade for rational laws in this arena whether they like it or not. It's just that backing down and, in many cases burrying one's head in the sand, is simply the "safer" fiscal policy. But that helps nobody but the huge media empires in the long run. Just saying.

NOR-RAD - 50 Rad/Rad/Elec Defender - Nikki Stryker - 50 DM/SR/Weap Scrapper - Iron Marauder - 50 Eng/Eng/Pow Blaster
Lion of Might - 50 SS/Inv/Eng Tanker - Darling Nikkee - 50 (+3) StJ/WP/Eng Brute - Ice Giant Kurg - 36 Ice/Storm Controller

Blue_Centurion · 10-14-2011 12:08 PM

Okay. This is what happened.

i sent in a petition, basically the stuff I wrote above. And asked if I was okay. First response said it was kicked upstairs and I would be contacted. Next day, the response said they would have to change it because of Starcraft, and asked for 3 possibles. I thought about it all night, and came up with three alternate names, sent them in. I didn't complain or anything, just said 1st choice, 2nd choice, 3rd choice. Got a response back, on further review I am okay.

So, Zerg exists, and is busy in the cities. I have decided he'll be my main for the next year, and I am gonna try to get that serious badge count on him. Big challenge for me since I normally brute. Hoverblastin', here I come. I have friends who are addicted to MO runs, so crazily enough those will be some of the easier badges to get. But I got a feeling I will be seriously challenged on getting some of these badges with a blaster, maybe I'm wrong.

Thanks to everyone for the lively discussion. It was an interesting learning process of trademarks, copyright law, and business decisions, sprinkled with a lot of that personalized opinions that make the boards so interesting.

St_Angelius · 10-14-2011 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blue_Centurion

Okay. This is what happened.

i sent in a petition, basically the stuff I wrote above. And asked if I was okay. First response said it was kicked upstairs and I would be contacted. Next day, the response said they would have to change it because of Starcraft, and asked for 3 possibles. I thought about it all night, and came up with three alternate names, sent them in. I didn't complain or anything, just said 1st choice, 2nd choice, 3rd choice. Got a response back, on further review I am okay.

So, Zerg exists, and is busy in the cities. I have decided he'll be my main for the next year, and I am gonna try to get that serious badge count on him. Big challenge for me since I normally brute. Hoverblastin', here I come. I have friends who are addicted to MO runs, so crazily enough those will be some of the easier badges to get. But I got a feeling I will be seriously challenged on getting some of these badges with a blaster, maybe I'm wrong.

Thanks to everyone for the lively discussion. It was an interesting learning process of trademarks, copyright law, and business decisions, sprinkled with a lot of that personalized opinions that make the boards so interesting.

Oooo, gratz to you, glad to hear you get to keep your name

As for badging with a blaster, my main/first 50, Neo Chamber, is a blaster and has 1032 badges so far, over 300 of those gained in the last month and a half after a year and a half break due to a flakey gaming rig. no MO badges yet, but they will come in time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forbin_Project

Then it's time for them to get off the cross, use the wood to build a bridge, and get over it.

In one little corner of the universe, there's nothing more irritating than a misfile...