Reward timers on Signature Storyarcs are all tied to the same timer?
By
Aura_Familia,
Posted on: 2011-10-11 18:49 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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Originally Posted by peterpeter
Yeah, I can't believe people don't see this. You thought the devs would let us get 7 hero merits in one day, in just an hour or two, every week? I admit I was hoping they would, but I never thought it likely. The devs aren't just thinking about today or this month, they plan things many months and even years in advance. In a couple of years, if the arcs didn't share a timer, you'd be able to grab dozens of hero merits with minimal effort every week. Apparently that's just not something they plan to allow, and I can't blame them.
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Haven't hero merits already been massivly devalued by the devs offering complete IO sets through the store?
Brawling Cactus from a distant planet.
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If that's how you want to play, you're welcome to do so. Meanwhile those of us who don't care about the maximum reward/time ratio are free to run any one of seven arcs for the same reward, depending on which one we feel like at the time. I'd call that a major advancement for a game that historically railroaded players nearly as badly as contemporaneous MMOs did. If nothing else, run the quickest one for the hero merit and then run the longest one for the 4x merit rewards. Presto, even by your own standard there's value in longer ones.|
Originally Posted by CactusBrawler
Why would I run seven sets of three missions of varying difficulties, when I can pick the quickest of those three and just run that one?
Which was my point, giving us seven fun little arcs is fine, I'll play through them each once. But when it comes to the rewards? It'll be quickest first, and forget the rest because there will be no reward for doing them. I don't think you quite got that, as long as the Signature Storyarcs, share the same cool down on rewards, in the long run whats the point in having seven of them? People will only repeat the easiest/quickest one and leave them to rot the rest of the week. |
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Originally Posted by CactusBrawler
Haven't hero merits already been massivly devalued by the devs offering complete IO sets through the store?
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I'll be interested to see if each of the separate SSA's are on the same one week timer.
I can actually understand (not that I wasn't briefly annoyed, mind) the logic behind each chapter of the first SSA being on the same reward timer. I really hope that the second SSA (and it's chapters, if appropriate) are on a separate timer.
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Only certain sets are being offered through the store. Almost all the 'high value' sets are *not* in the store, so there wouldn't be much impact.
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Originally Posted by CactusBrawler
Haven't hero merits already been massivly devalued by the devs offering complete IO sets through the store?
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Heck, as it is the SSA rewards' system is pretty exploitable for anyone who has a lot of alts. Even ignoring the recurring, weekly rewards' table, just running through all seven arcs once on each character nets you 3.5 Luck of the Gambler procs. Multiply that by 20 characters and you have a nice lump sum for very little time spent.|
Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
If that's how you want to play, you're welcome to do so. Meanwhile those of us who don't care about the maximum reward/time ratio are free to run any one of seven arcs for the same reward, depending on which one we feel like at the time. I'd call that a major advancement for a game that historically railroaded players nearly as badly as contemporaneous MMOs did. If nothing else, run the quickest one for the hero merit and then run the longest one for the 4x merit rewards. Presto, even by your own standard there's value in longer ones.
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(It still probably wouldn't be as efficient as marketeering or farming, but we're looking at a pretty spectacular consolation prize for people who aren't market/AE-inclined.)
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| Have they? How big of a drop did you predict in the average value of lotgs? How big of a drop have you actually seen? |
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Originally Posted by Iggy_Kamakaze
Nice build
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I want to chime in because the point is being missed: the SSA's are paid for content. Yes, I understand they most likely don't want people to get 7 Hero/Villain Merits per day for running shorter content, but each arc is $5. When it's all said and done, that's $35 for non-VIP's to play content that doesn't guarantee them a top-level reward if they play more than 2 SSA's per week.
When Freedom was in closed beta, Enhancement Boosters were listed in the market and there was a chance to fail the boost after you boosted an IO once. Players were up in arms because you were paying real money for something you had a chance to fail at. You were gambling on the chance of +5'ing something.
Now the SSA's were never in beta so no one was able to test them. No one was able to see that something else that was purchasable from the store cut you off from a top-level reward after playing it twice. Not only playing the same arc twice, but playing 2 of any SSA's within the same WEEK.
I said I hate to complain because I really do. But no one else is catching on that the game, being free to play, is not doing anything to hold F2P or premiums to WANT to buy the SSA's every month. What's the point? The game relies on their $5 purchases, but if they only need to buy SSA1 what's the point in buying SSA2-7 if they aren't getting the rewards for it. Doing SSA1 two times per week is the same as doing SSA2-7 since they run off the same reward table.
There is no incentive for them to purchase the SSA's. There is no incentive for them to pay another $5 a month for something they can get from running a 10 minute SSA1 arc twice a week.
CoH is relying on F2P players just as much as subscribers at this point. And when you're told "No, you get no (or little) reward for repeatedly playing this separately purchased content because YOU don't need more than 2 top-level rewards per week" you're not really asking them to invest their money month after month on a 3 part story arc when they have 7 years of content for free.
pohsyb: so of all people you must be most excited about the veats
Arachnos Commander: actually, I am
pohsyb: I mean you kinda were one already anyways ^_^
Arachnos Commander:
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Well, the 'first time' reward is per character, so you'll run the complete set once per character, which is not inconsiderable in a game as alt heavy as ours. And from that perspective it's not that different from any other piece of content. There are very few things (outside TFs and trials) that get repeated on an individual character.
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Originally Posted by CactusBrawler
Why would I run seven sets of three missions of varying difficulties, when I can pick the quickest of those three and just run that one?
Which was my point, giving us seven fun little arcs is fine, I'll play through them each once. But when it comes to the rewards? It'll be quickest first, and forget the rest because there will be no reward for doing them. I don't think you quite got that, as long as the Signature Storyarcs, share the same cool down on rewards, in the long run whats the point in having seven of them? People will only repeat the easiest/quickest one and leave them to rot the rest of the week. |
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Would premiums really prefer it if that $35 purchase (or the subscription fee) were perceived as a license to print in-game money? That's the thing; you're doing a decent job of describing a potential flaw in the design (lack of incentive for premiums to buy the signature arcs ala carte), but you're glossing over the consequences of the alternative.|
Originally Posted by Commander
Now the SSA's were never in beta so no one was able to test them. No one was able to see that something else that was purchasable from the store cut you off from a top-level reward after playing it twice. Not only playing the same arc twice, but playing 2 of any SSA's within the same WEEK.
I said I hate to complain because I really do. But no one else is catching on that the game, being free to play, is not doing anything to hold F2P or premiums to WANT to buy the SSA's every month. What's the point? The game relies on their $5 purchases, but if they only need to buy SSA1 what's the point in buying SSA2-7 if they aren't getting the rewards for it. Doing SSA1 two times per week is the same as doing SSA2-7 since they run off the same reward table. |
I suspect that the intent is to encourage premiums to subscribe and therefore not have to pay for each new SSA separately. For subscribers, SSA access is an ancillary perk rather than an end in itself. The rewards system, if you have access to all arcs and you're heavily alt-inclined, is (or will be) potentially very lucrative for anyone who has the patience to explore it to its full potential -- but it's not so lucrative on a per-character basis that the arcs are must-haves, mechanically speaking.
The way it's set up now, a premium can throw $5 at one arc and have access to all of the weekly rewards (which is fitting, because Premiums have fewer character slots). The Preemie loses out on the full storyline but within the character-slot limits that already inherently constrain Preemie players, he's not losing out on any of the SSA rewards. That's the fairest option, in my book; telling Preemies that they'd have seven times more reward if they spend seven times more money isn't the way to entice new customers to stick with your game; quite the opposite, in fact.
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Originally Posted by Iggy_Kamakaze
Nice build
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Look for Arc 1 to be massively farmed then. Ghosting all three missions in about 10 minutes? Why would anyone out for AM rewards play anything else?
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Originally Posted by peterpeter
Yeah, I can't believe people don't see this. You thought the devs would let us get 7 hero merits in one day, in just an hour or two, every week? I admit I was hoping they would, but I never thought it likely. The devs aren't just thinking about today or this month, they plan things many months and even years in advance. In a couple of years, if the arcs didn't share a timer, you'd be able to grab dozens of hero merits with minimal effort every week. Apparently that's just not something they plan to allow, and I can't blame them.
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Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
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Because doing the exact same thing over and over is boring, not to mention pointless when you can run arc 2 nearly as fast if you feel like it?
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Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
Look for Arc 1 to be massively farmed then. Ghosting all three missions in about 10 minutes? Why would anyone out for AM rewards play anything else?
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You know, the overwhelming focus on "rewards" is really starting to annoy me.
Just play the game... have fun defeating enemies and/or helping your allies.
Just because content is paid-for doesn't mean it has to cater to a person's desire for proper in-game "rewards".
Playing should be enough of a reward... if it isn't... Maybe you're not interested in that content. And/or maybe you should do that other content that you aren't complaining about the rewards for.
And, if anyone thinks that the combined SSA rewards, added up for each and every individual arc within the whole storyline, wouldn't be too much to give out, then you're failing to recognize that they handed out rather sizable rewards for these relatively short arcs.
The fact that we get those seem to be more of a perk for those who want such rewards... Not some minimal standard for having to run such content.
The fact that the content is VIP/Premium-Bought doesn't mean they have to measure up to some absurd standard that the I want in-game rewards to build my stuff with crowd imagines.
Just my opinions!
@Zethustra
"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
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You have to be in the mindset of someone that enjoys doing the same exact thing over and over. For me, currently, I have 48 level 50's.|
Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
Because doing the exact same thing over and over is boring, not to mention pointless when you can run arc 2 nearly as fast if you feel like it?
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Do I want to run the Incarnate missions over and over, deal with Trapdoor, solo, over and over on alts that might not be built for soloing, just to unlock my Alpha slot? Nope. But earning Astral Merits over and over on my main alt can be used to buy Alpha unlocked and send it to an alt to quickly, and painlessly, bypass the Incarnate Unlocked arc.
I'm not a huge fan of repeating the same stuff over and over, but with the easiest method for getting what you want is doing just that, then I'm going to do it.
pohsyb: so of all people you must be most excited about the veats
Arachnos Commander: actually, I am
pohsyb: I mean you kinda were one already anyways ^_^
Arachnos Commander:
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The SSAs aren't the lock or the main hook for attracting/keeping players.|
Originally Posted by Commander
I want to chime in because the point is being missed: the SSA's are paid for content. Yes, I understand they most likely don't want people to get 7 Hero/Villain Merits per day for running shorter content, but each arc is $5. When it's all said and done, that's $35 for non-VIP's to play content that doesn't guarantee them a top-level reward if they play more than 2 SSA's per week.
When Freedom was in closed beta, Enhancement Boosters were listed in the market and there was a chance to fail the boost after you boosted an IO once. Players were up in arms because you were paying real money for something you had a chance to fail at. You were gambling on the chance of +5'ing something. Now the SSA's were never in beta so no one was able to test them. No one was able to see that something else that was purchasable from the store cut you off from a top-level reward after playing it twice. Not only playing the same arc twice, but playing 2 of any SSA's within the same WEEK. I said I hate to complain because I really do. But no one else is catching on that the game, being free to play, is not doing anything to hold F2P or premiums to WANT to buy the SSA's every month. What's the point? The game relies on their $5 purchases, but if they only need to buy SSA1 what's the point in buying SSA2-7 if they aren't getting the rewards for it. Doing SSA1 two times per week is the same as doing SSA2-7 since they run off the same reward table. There is no incentive for them to purchase the SSA's. There is no incentive for them to pay another $5 a month for something they can get from running a 10 minute SSA1 arc twice a week. CoH is relying on F2P players just as much as subscribers at this point. And when you're told "No, you get no (or little) reward for repeatedly playing this separately purchased content because YOU don't need more than 2 top-level rewards per week" you're not really asking them to invest their money month after month on a 3 part story arc when they have 7 years of content for free. |
It's just some content, an ongoing story hook (not rewards hook).
The business model won't fail or succeed based on the SSA.
The reward distribution and balance schemes shouldn't be dictated by the cost in the store.
@Zethustra
"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
Does anyone even know if Free players can get the SSA rewards? I believe you need to be tier 4 to get reward merits. Incarnate rewards are right out, and I don't know whether a free player can get alignment merits without purchasing the alignment system (I would guess not).
So it's a lot more than $5 to get started with rewards.
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Oh, don't get me wrong. I play the game because I love the game. But when you're dealing with new people coming in and being used to the other MMO's that cater to them, not being catered to is something that won't make them stay or want to pump more money into the game.|
Originally Posted by Electric-Knight
You know, the overwhelming focus on "rewards" is really starting to annoy me.
Just play the game... have fun defeating enemies and/or helping your allies. snipped for brevity |
Most new people are used to being catered to by other MMO's. Most other MMO's focus on the reward over the content. When people of that mindset come in and see that, to Paragon, content is coveted over the reward they might not be so inclined to put money into the game.
Can I deal with the 7 day timer? Yep. But that's because I've got a subscription paid for till September of 2012. I'm here for the long haul. Will someone that's on a fixed income/limited budget that can afford $5 a month but can't afford $14/month subscription deal with it?
pohsyb: so of all people you must be most excited about the veats
Arachnos Commander: actually, I am
pohsyb: I mean you kinda were one already anyways ^_^
Arachnos Commander:
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Because they want something to do for the next six days, before the rewards reset?|
Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
Look for Arc 1 to be massively farmed then. Ghosting all three missions in about 10 minutes? Why would anyone out for AM rewards play anything else?
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I don't think the devs are worried about people farming the arc. At least, I can't imagine why they would care. I mean, it's not like they've never released something that people have farmed before. There's always something that certain people will play over and over and over and over and over and over until their eyes bleed. Why would the devs care exactly which thing it is that's being farmed, as long as the rewards are within a range they're comfortable with? Which they are. But they wouldn't be if you could get an AM every single time. So you can't.
I think Obitus has the right of it. The point of selling the arcs for $5 isn't to make $5 over and over. The point is to increase the perceived value of the subscription and lure people into becoming VIP players.
Avatar: "Cheeky Jack O Lantern" by dimarie
I did the Who Will Die arcs 1&2 back to back and got the hero merit both times
Prof Radburn controller,Celtic Ice Maiden,blaster,Miss Knockout scrapper,Mistress Davina controller,Stone Hart,tank Split Personality PB.Queen Lostris controller,Fridgid Mary blaster,Shocking Fire blaster Future Elfling defender, Little Weed controller,Capo Angelo MM, Commander Buzzsaw MM, Justice Tank tank all 50,s
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Correct and also very wrong|
Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
Because doing the exact same thing over and over is boring, not to mention pointless when you can run arc 2 nearly as fast if you feel like it?
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Arc 1 runs about 7 minutes with a really weak EB.
Arc 2 about 15 minutes with a nasty EB.
Also Arc 1 can be run by level 10's so its really easy to make alts just to farm this, 2 sewers and you are golden to farm.
Most players play for reward, because reward is fun. Its been ingrained by older mmo's such as ones that might have the same abbreviation as Equalizer or the one that resembles an 800 lb gorilla.
Boycott Ncsoft if they close down Coh.
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Don't get me wrong. I enjoy the game itself. But I like to play with an objective in mind.|
Originally Posted by Electric-Knight
You know, the overwhelming focus on "rewards" is really starting to annoy me.
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And while I read through the text (when the ambushes aren't coming at me so damn heavily that I have to speed-click through them so I can see stuff, First Ward Content I'm Looking At You!). But after 2-3 times, I've read it. I can skim the text quite rapidly and my eyesight and retention are excellent. So I don't need to settle down for a half hour of lugubrious reading every...single...TIIIIIMMMEEEE I play a particular arc.
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| Just play the game... have fun defeating enemies and/or helping your allies. |
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Just because content is paid-for doesn't mean it has to cater to a person's desire for proper in-game "rewards". Playing should be enough of a reward... if it isn't... Maybe you're not interested in that content. And/or maybe you should do that other content that you aren't complaining about the rewards for. |
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| And, if anyone thinks that the combined SSA rewards, added up for each and every individual arc within the whole storyline, wouldn't be too much to give out, then you're failing to recognize that they handed out rather sizable rewards for these relatively short arcs. |
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| The fact that we get those seem to be more of a perk for those who want such rewards... Not some minimal standard for having to run such content. |
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The fact that the content is VIP/Premium-Bought doesn't mean they have to measure up to some absurd standard that the I want in-game rewards to build my stuff with crowd imagines. Just my opinions!
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Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
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It is? That's funny, because I beat it in 10:30 with a level 33 blaster.
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Originally Posted by Shubbie
Correct and also very wrong
Arc 1 runs about 7 minutes with a really weak EB. Arc 2 about 15 minutes with a nasty EB. |
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Yes but any character can beat the EB in arc 1 really easy.|
Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
It is? That's funny, because I beat it in 10:30 with a level 33 blaster.
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The arc 2 EB is nasty on toast, and unless you are lucky, or have a build that works well this is a nasty fight, if you cant take down the adds easy, he will keep healing and he 2 hits squishies.
Boycott Ncsoft if they close down Coh.
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Actually- yes you CAN. I just did it on 2 separate Rogues and got 30 threads each time. I ran SSA1 both sides and got 20- then I ran SSA2 Hero side and got my 10. Lastly I ran SSA2 Villain and was told no I couldn't get threads, so I was able to get 30. Like I said, no it isn't a solo Incarnate path but it's a start.
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Originally Posted by Kyriani
I recently sent my MM back villain side to open the patron pools... for kicks i went and did the villain SSA 1.1 I was NOT able to get a "first time" reward from it and all my rewards were on cooldown from when I did it hero side... So unless I encountered a bug you do not get a "first time" reward from both the villain and hero versions of the SSA's.
Secondly... no you cant get 30 threads a week... you can get 10 after your freebie "first time" reward... that's it. Basically first week it comes out and you do it you can get 20 threads. Every subsequent week will be 10 threads. Also the devs have said the SSA's are NOT the intended method for incarnate solo progression. |
"Well, there's going to be some light music and a short note of apology saying, 'The universe ended last week, we're really sorry, we don't know what you're doing here, didn't you get the message?'"- Steve Moffat
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If you've never run any SSA before on that particular character, then you got the "freebie" for Arc 1, then your weekly reward, then the "freebie" for Arc 2. Next week, you will only be able to get 10 threads the first time, and nothing else.|
Originally Posted by Benchpresser
Actually- yes you CAN. I just did it on 2 separate Rogues and got 30 threads each time. I ran SSA1 both sides and got 20- then I ran SSA2 Hero side and got my 10. Lastly I ran SSA2 Villain and was told no I couldn't get threads, so I was able to get 30. Like I said, no it isn't a solo Incarnate path but it's a start.
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On the week that the third arc comes out, you'll be able to get 10 threads from that, and another weekly 10 threads.
Character index
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I ran that arc 13 times yesterday on 13 alts (because I use the A-Merits to bank roll my newest characters):|
Originally Posted by Shubbie
Yes but any character can beat the EB in arc 1 really easy.
The arc 2 EB is nasty on toast, and unless you are lucky, or have a build that works well this is a nasty fight, if you cant take down the adds easy, he will keep healing and he 2 hits squishies. |
Corruptor (35, 50)
Brute (50)
Scrappers (20,50)
Stalkers (40,50)
Dominator (50)
Widow (50)
Crab (50)
Warshade (49)
Defender (50)
Tank (50)
I died once on my dominator (of all chars!) because I got a phone call from work. (Wednesdays I work from home, so it is a good day to solo these arcs for my characters). I also ran it a second time on a few characters for the second A-merit. None of these characters are built to exemplar, I simply used lots of inspirations and played on +0/x1.
My shortest time on the second SSA was about 10:30, and my longest (not counting the one I took a phone call for) was a little over 15:00. All of those times were longer than it take me to run SSA1 (usually right about 8:30).
So, while I agree that the second arc takes longer, I don't agree that it is any more dangerous.
Make a man a fire and keep him warm for the day, SET a man on fire and keep him warm for the rest of his life.
Incarnates: K'lir(Fire/Dark Corr):Hot-House Flower(Plant/Fire Dom):Kinrad X(Kin/Rad Def):Itsy-Bitsy Spider(Crab):Two Ton Tony(Mace/WP Broot):Teeny Weeny Widow(Fortunata/Widow) : Zeroth Law (Ice/Fire Tank)
Jun 2007
I'd say you guys have amply demonstrated that you're willing to replay content that's a lot worse than the SSAs for rewards a lot worse than one hero merit and 20 reward merits and 10 threads and one astral merit per week. Maybe you'll somehow get by? Besides, now you can run first ward in ouro, run the trials, run the new tfs, all this stuff that definitely did not exist for the first several years that you kept playing through.
Which was my point, giving us seven fun little arcs is fine, I'll play through them each once. But when it comes to the rewards? It'll be quickest first, and forget the rest because there will be no reward for doing them.
I don't think you quite got that, as long as the Signature Storyarcs, share the same cool down on rewards, in the long run whats the point in having seven of them? People will only repeat the easiest/quickest one and leave them to rot the rest of the week.
Brawling Cactus from a distant planet.