Roman Costume Pieces for sale

No, I don't think you're actually reading what I'm saying. And you seem to be ignoring the counterproposal, too. (And how is your argument any less "I think this should be so, and my way is more right than your way?" Be honest with yourself.)

Capes and Auras were already *partially* available at level 1. They are not in the same category, really, as Roman armor pieces, Ruularu weapons and the like.

Capes and Auras were semi-purchaseable, and the purchased booster pieces *had* to be made available from level 1 - if nothing else, to avoid a customer service nightmare with people "not getting what they paid for." So we had a very fractured category - and if you have an account that has only a few boosters, it still *is,* really.

Frankly, I think having capes and auras unlocked *via the store* was a mistake, just *because* of that. Yes, even though I'm somewhat arguing against your POV, these are some I think should have been just unlocked universally at level 1 at the point we were at pre-I21, just to clean up the mess of those two categories - with the cape mission staying just to unlock, say, a special cape design at best, or being sent to Ouro.

I do "get" what you want. Really. I just think there should be another way of doing so, so you can get your "theme" unlocked early and people who want the reward can still have something special *as* a reward. What it would entail for Ruularu weapons, for instance, I couldn't say.

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No you don't see that if you are given the option to circumvent the task, the achievement in the task becomes meaningless. If you truly love the piece that much, then do the task.

I hate grinding 100 Fake Nemesis too, but I do it for every character because I want the Freedom Phalanx Reserve Member.

Yes, you are. You are suggesting removing the requirement that people do a specific task for a specific costume piece reward.

Right now the requirement makes the achievement meaningful. You wish to eliminate that. I understand why. You don't like doing what is required. I understand that. I don't necessarily like doing some tasks in the game myself. But I don't see it as a reasonable request to ask to be able to purchase my way out of everything I don't like.

So.... don't "go kill 200 overseers." Run the missions at a level that will produce them. (Which, yes, I understand are somewhat *lacking* in the shard.)

So... why are you quoting yet blowing off the last line, instead of helping come up with a compromise? Last line being:
Say, for Ruularu, having a "sleeping" weapon (eye closed, or of a different color and non-moving) which gets "empowered" when you get the Overseers badge? (Moving is unlocked.) You get your same look and theme, but there's still a 'reward' for the Overseers?

(Which, IMHO, leads to a side-request, again, for more real content in the shard.)

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LOL

That's not all that you've been trying to say, though. Do you really not know what you've been trying to insinuate? Or do you just want me to keep saying the same thing in different words over and over again to... what, see if I'll crack? *shrug*

Oh, so then you do agree that it's not a big deal for people to be able to buy stuff in the game that was previously just unlockable via game content? Otherwise, stop trying to engage in a fancy "no u" argument. Or have you been trolling us this entire time?

This is a laughable excuse to keep people from being able to buy more stuff on the market. I'll let you in on a little secret about those kinds of achievements: they're personal. That means another player who doesn't know you will probably not care one bit about the stuff you have "achieved" inside the game. I certainly don't. I collect badges because they're neat and shiny. But I have no delusion that anyone else is clicking on my characters and examining them to awe at just how many I've gotten over the years.

If that's a problem that you have, then basically what you've been saying in this thread so far is that your own desires are more important than the desires of everyone else. That's part of why I find your arguments here so disingenuous in the first place. You're not concerned about other players' experiences in this game, you're miffed at the mere notion that someone else could be able to buy a costume set that you had to "work" for. It bothers you so much that you'd be willing to diminish other players' experiences in the game over it.

If people stop playing certain content because the rewards it gives were suddenly available in some other way, that tells me that that content has become tired and boring. If they needed to be coerced into playing it with the promise of some shinies, instead of finding the experience of that content to be rewarding unto itself, then maybe that content needs to be looked into and revamped. The things you do inside a video game should be fun, not a chore. I would not want to force people to have to do something inside a game if they really were not finding it fun, that's just cruel.

Maybe the mothership raid needs to be spiced up a bit then? *shrugs*

This is, as they say, your problem. You should stop trying to make it everyone else's problem. Thank you!

LOL

I covered this in my response to Evil Gecko. If that content can't stand up on its own without the need to lure players in with unlockable shinies, then it's that content that needs to be changed.

Eh. I see no need for something like this...

Really, why are the concerns of these "achiever" types any more important than the ones who "want it now"? Even the names you use for these two types of players reveals your reverence for one and your disdain for the other. Why are these so-called "achievers" that you talk about so irate over the very idea of being able to buy goodies they had to "earn"? Sounds like a lot of butt-hurt to me, seriously.

Try selling that idea on the Market and Inventions forum.

That was a bug. But I'm sure you knew that.

Again, that was a bug in the AE system.

Another bug. Helllooooooo?

Yeah, you know what? I'm not even gonna bother with this. You might as well haul out the entire list of known issues with the game, since you seem to equate bugs with selling costume parts on the market.

You do know what a program bug is, right?

No, you do it by ignoring the other person's argument altogether. Presumably you're doing this because you don't understand how I could possibly disagree with you. That's unfortunate. But disagree with you I do.

It's simple. I recognize that YOU do not like have ANY costumes gated behind content. I do not believe you're a bad person for believing that. I don't think your position is unreasonable.

What I find silly and specious is the argument that your belief is somehow inherently more legitimate than the opposite view. I don't think having all or even most costumes as rewards is a good idea. But I think having a few pieces here and there makes the game more interesting and fun. You all wish to take that away, by circumventing that achievement. Again I don't fault you for that belief, but I do think you all are being quite unreasonable not to recognize that reasonable people can disagree. And furthermore that they can disagree for rational reasons, even if you can't understand them yourself.

We know that one of the things that people enjoy about doing a task is the reward at the end. Remove all rewards from something and people will do something that does give them such a reward.

Developers lure people towards all sorts of behavior via rewards like exp, badges, IOs, HOs, and yes costumes. This design is a foundation of MMORPGs. To suggest that it is invalid is to suggest that MMORPGs as a genre is the problem. Some folks do believe that, I'll note. But many of them recognize that they could just be playing something else.

There are thousands of costumes available from level 1 on. There are a handful unlockable as rewards. You wish to take EVERYTHING for your side, and then accuse us of disdain for others. I'll ask again, you sure you're not projecting a bit of that...what's the term you used, "butt-hurt".

No, you don't understand then my argument. It's more than just 'like'. It's the in-game aspect of creating a 'character'. A character which has a certain persona from the beginning of their supers career. I don't want a character that, half-way through their career, suddenly becomes a gladiator personality because he visited this game's version of ancient Rome. I want to make a gladiator who starts on a supers career. The game doesn't allow that because of the level gated costuming.

I'm not against rewards locked behind level-gated content. I don't demand to be able to get a Shivan temp pet at level 1. I don't demand to have all the accolade powers at level 1. It is part of the supers genre that people level up in power over their career. It is not part of the genre that no one can dress like a gladiator unless your *this* powerful. That's why the level locks for the capes and aura were universally derided and are now gone.

Pot, meet kettle.

Originally Posted by Zwillinger GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.

Originally Posted by Captain_Photon NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

Unless you paid for the pieces, you would still be required to do the task. So it must not simply be doing the task to earn the reward that makes the achievement meaningful. It follows that what makes it meaningful to you, therefore, isn't doing the task to get the reward, but doing the task to get the reward that other people who didn't do the task don't have.

Not sure why you lumped me in that, as I never called your arguments "invalid" and was trying to find ways of compromising so everyone would be happy.

However, if you want the other person to just throw up their hands and say "It's pointless bothering to try to have a reasonable conversation with you," so you 'win,' well, congrats, you "win."

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And you ignored what was said in response.

Because you don't like it.

Pfft. Why should people have to read anything? Why are the wants/needs of the RP types more important than the "Screw the story, kill nao!" types? Why are the wants/needs of the PVPers more important than the PVE folks in PVP zones? Why bother with zones like Pocket D for Rpers? What makes the needs of base builders more important than anyone else?

Because, dearie, there are *multiple types of players* in the game, and trying to put something in that appeals to as many different types gives you a larger player base.

Why, did I call one "Idiots?"
"Achievers," by the way, is not my name for them. It's a fairly common category, as is "Explorer."

But, for the rest of the statement, all you're doing is proving you're not worth bothering with the rest of the conversation. Thought you were better than that. Sorry to be proven wrong.

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How? I understand and even emphasize with your argument. I just don't agree with it. Why do you feel the need to make this personal?

This is so funny, because that is exactly what I've been trying to tell you and Evil Gecko. Giving the players more choice will always appeal to a great many different types of them, and not just one. Allowing them to either get costume bits via the market or by unlocking them from inside the game is giving them more choice. More choice is good!

So far, players such as yourself and EG represent a single type.

Which must mean, of course, that you're muttering the words "to me" after you say the word "appeals".

Because we don't agree 100%, apparently, with their position. Apparently your arguments about the status quo and mine looking for compromises are invalid and we're evil (at least you have that in your forum name.)

I mean, c'mon, we're arguing on the same general POV. That should be scary for anyone!

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Come on now, let's try to keep this honest. Being able to purchase your way out of the task is not being required to do the task.

Now this is true. But what of it? I would be quite annoyed if my college just started selling degrees as well. What is problematic about believing that people should earn what they want. The devs set forth a path to earn certain costume pieces. It's part of the game. I do not wish for people to be able to circumvent the game just because they want to.

You know, what I find so completely fascinating about this argument is that you all couldn't get away with it almost anywhere else. People feel I'm being unkind, but on many other game's boards, the idea that you should be able to buy rewards that are attached to content is considered per se unreasonable.

But see, you're trying to eliminate a choice for one category. You're not trying to enhance choice, you're trying to supplant one form of choice for another.

Did you just compare studying for years to earn a college degree to playing a videogame? o.O

Tell me where I said that I want the ITF to not unlock the Roman costume bits, if it is then made available on the market.

Soooo.....

Given *I'm* arguing for a way to get a certain costume/weapon theme in the store while preserving a continuation of the theme for those that *want* the feel of achievement from unlocking it...

Why are you arguing against me and insisting on depreciating another's play style? One which, by your OWN words, you "don't get?"

And do tell me which "type" of playstyle EG *and* I match. He seems to go for min/maxing. I play a ton of alts and don't care. I'm not a badger (one of those "achiever" types.) I don't bother with the unlocks except (a) by accident (I run an ITF because I want to, 99% of the time, not for the costume unlocks,) or (b) the rare occasion I *do* want the pieces.

One of the few constants on this board is that EG and I rarely, if ever, seem to agree on anything. So saying we share a play style is *humorous,* to say the least.

Do try not to make assumptions. You don't play with me, you're not in any of my SGs, you have no *clue* what my goals, etc. are, so don't try to tell me what I'm trying to get out of the game or that it matches anyone else's goals or wants.

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I fully understand your desire to have your character concept realized from level 1. I basically ignore the style collecting in that other game based on the DC Universe. Most of my characters still use the costume that they left the tutorial in. So I hear you. I truly do.

But Zombie, can you not see how absolutist your position is? You're saying that NO costume piece should ever be used as a reward. I just don't think that's particularly reasonable.

I can make a gladiator just fine in the character creator. Just did in fact. Will it be perfect to you? Perhaps not. But will it realize the character's concept? Yes.

By making it available on the market, the achievement in earning it becomes meaningless. If you don't have to earn the reward, then it ceases to be a reward. I offer that there is nothing sinister or illegitimate about not wanting people who haven't earned a reward to be able to use it.

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.