Why LotG?


Clave_Dark_5

 

Posted

This is just idle curiosity, but when looking through the market I realized that the Luck of the Gambler global recharge IO was at the exact same price it was when I last had reason to check, and moreover, had been that price whenever I checked for at least the last year. I was wondering what people thought was the reason for such remarkable consistency. Coincidence? A (relatively) small pool of players generating most of the supply and roughly agreeing on its value? Consistent demand due to people trying to make powers perma? Most builds having at least one power that can slot defense and there being very little that is better to do with a single slot? Something else? All of the above?

I admit that I am part of the problem. I take random rolls with my merits rather that increasing the supply of the sure thing. I think of it a performing a service for the community since usually half of the recipes I get have more bids than supply, and usually at least once a month I get something where the supply of either the recipe or the crafted enhancement has gone to zero. But I also know I'm taking a 30 to 50 million Inf hit (when I don't get a lucky roll) on each LotG's worth of merits. And I'm also helping keep the prices on these other recipes from climbing while usually NOT contributing to the supply of the top sellers.

At least, I don't also contribute to the demand for now. When building a high end enhancement list I know I can get 10-15 other good enhancements for the same price, and can even get a number of the less popular purples for less, so the LotGs are far down on my list of choices.


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Posted

My guess is that it's mostly the consistent demand. Like Numina and Miracle globals, lots of us want Gambler globals on every character. What makes Gamblers different is the fact that we often want more than one - up to five of them on every character. That makes for a lot of demand.


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Posted

i dont ever buy LOTGs on the market, i get pretty much all of mine from alignment merits and random rolls, heck i rarely buy anything thats more than 30 mil off of the market lol


 

Posted

I think it is price imprinting. People have established a number in their heads of what the value is (based on history, mostly I would guess), and are willing to make that "fair" number their first bid. I don't think very many people bid creep anymore.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zengar View Post
This is just idle curiosity, but when looking through the market I realized that the Luck of the Gambler global recharge IO was at the exact same price it was when I last had reason to check, and moreover, had been that price whenever I checked for at least the last year. I was wondering what people thought was the reason for such remarkable consistency.
I rarely see consistency in the LotG global recharge IO. Sometimes it goes up to 200 mill, sometimes it drops down to the low prices I currently see (110,090,900 for level 25 IO, 120-130 mill for level 50 IO).

Quote:
I admit that I am part of the problem. I take random rolls with my merits rather that increasing the supply of the sure thing. I think of it a performing a service for the community since usually half of the recipes I get have more bids than supply, and usually at least once a month I get something where the supply of either the recipe or the crafted enhancement has gone to zero. But I also know I'm taking a 30 to 50 million Inf hit (when I don't get a lucky roll) on each LotG's worth of merits. And I'm also helping keep the prices on these other recipes from climbing while usually NOT contributing to the supply of the top sellers.
I'm going to disagree with you here about taking a hit on your infl. I've been keeping track of random hero rolls for a bit now (see spread sheet link below) and I've done much, much better on random rolls than I would have done on LotGs. My net (after market tax and crafting cost) average roll on my level 50 character is 121,758,281 per Hero Merit. To match that with a LotG you'd have to sell each one for about 270 million. More if you're spending infl to convert reward merits to alignment merits.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by StarGeek View Post
I'm going to disagree with you here about taking a hit on your infl. I've been keeping track of random hero rolls for a bit now (see spread sheet link below) and I've done much, much better on random rolls than I would have done on LotGs. My net (after market tax and crafting cost) average roll on my level 50 character is 121,758,281 per Hero Merit. To match that with a LotG you'd have to sell each one for about 270 million. More if you're spending infl to convert reward merits to alignment merits.
I should start tracking. But I stopped rolling randomly after 9 consecutive rolls all failed to make back the 20 million to convert to hero merits. I could craft and sell at a profit covering crafting fees, salvage and market fees, but that extra 20 million hit was a massive barrier to my random rolls. That's not a particularly large sample. But it was enough to piss me off and make me start selling gamblers and kinetic combat doubles for a while =).

but I'm pretty much over it now. I had been doing pretty good with random rolls for a long time. Random is random hehe.


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Posted

I'm actually seeing huge spikes on all the LOTG pieces, and as I recently put together several sets for well under "daytime" market value prices, I would say that that holds true.

With that said, they have been more stable than usual, but as of a couple weeks ago (before the 1st Who Will Die? arc) they were pretty consistently hovering near 200 mil. The price on them dropped to nearly 70 million when that arc was introduced - I don't think it's too hard to picture why. Now that people got the front-load and over-saturation out of the way, we're at a point where supply is likely still a touch over what it was prior, and as the VIP head start is over and farming for the little man has been curbed to an extent, demand is lower. Add that to the fact that probably a lot of the LOTGs picked up <100 mil are going back into the market, this is probably why we're seeing the price as being stable. I would wager that it will eventually gravitate a little higher, but not too much. Eventually I'd estimate they'll be as valuable on the market as many other expensive/rare 2-merit recipes.

So, in short: Supply right now DOES NOT exceed demand. There are fewer LOTGs being produced than are being locked into toons. However, with that said, after the huge price crash, there are hundreds being reintroduced into the market, and these people have an idea of how much they want from them. This is why the price has been relatively steady and lower than prior.


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Posted

So, it looks like people are saying my perception is mostly coincidence, probably with a side helping of confirmation bias. That's actually the result I was hoping for, since I couldn't think of any good reason for it to be otherwise.

As for the Inf earned per roll, I did specify "when I don't get a lucky roll." My playtime is spread across many alts, so I don't actually sit down and turn in merits that often. This makes the times I get something really good into much more . . . singular, experiences. I'm absolutely sure that if I started keeping records it would turn out that I am coming out ahead, as shown by the math of many here on the forums. Just as, if I went through and pooled the money from all the character I play regularly I might actually finish slotting enhancements into one of them


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Posted

One of the only things I find merit rewards good for anymore.


 

Posted

Got my 2nd A-Merit from the SSA last night and headed to Trident for my LotG. Without realizing I was wasting my time seeing as I was only level 18...

So, I decided to pull up/auctionhouse, since I hadn't used that reward yet, and check the going rate. My funds are quickly depleting with all the new players, anyways.

The prices were consistent with what they'd been the past 6 months or so. (The time I've been watching) Then I clicked a level 30 recipe and noticed that somebody got very very lucky and or unlucky depending on the case.

In the history, among the 100 millions, was a single transaction for 12,000!
I know I would've smiled!

Got a question though. I don't have a 50 I can farm with, and don't really require all that much. The 400 million I got off a lucky purple drop has lasted me over a year. It's just now getting low with all the 20 mill I'm giving out left and right.

So, I debated saving up A-Merits to get a Glad and become a billionaire for the 1st time. Or, just cashing in every 2 for a LotG along the way. Which of the two would you pick?


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by MaestroMavius View Post
Which of the two would you pick?
I don't play at quite high enough levels on the market to know for sure, but I tend to like to spread myself, so I'd got with the LotGs. "All your eggs", "one basket", etc.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by MaestroMavius View Post
So, I debated saving up A-Merits to get a Glad and become a billionaire for the 1st time. Or, just cashing in every 2 for a LotG along the way. Which of the two would you pick?
I would go the LotG route. Here's one good reason: you're looking at the prices NOW. What if 'hardcore' players stockpile their A-Merits for the PvP recipes and crash those prices just as you're about to sell yours?

FYI, I currently have about 35 A-Merits stockpiled from doing the SSA, spread out across about 18 characters. I really can't imagine that I'm the only person doing this.


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Posted

I do both. I have at any one time, two characters who are stockpiling empyreans and/or alingment merits for a big purchase, and all other characters spend as they come in.

It's slow, but reliable.


"Hmm, I guess I'm not as omniscient as I thought" -Gavin Runeblade.
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Thank you everyone at Paragon and on Virtue. When the lights go out in November, you'll find me on Razor Bunny.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by MaestroMavius View Post
So, I debated saving up A-Merits to get a Glad and become a billionaire for the 1st time. Or, just cashing in every 2 for a LotG along the way. Which of the two would you pick?
Personally? I save A-Merits until 30, then either random roll them until 34 (if the character is a priority to me) or roll them all at 33 (if I can park them there for a while). After that, I look at what the builds I'm working on need - LoTG 7.5%, Numina Uni, Miracle Uni, or Performance Shifter Proc (which costs half as much, since it's a pool A).

I have two toons parked at 33: A EM/Reg Stalker (who was a FOTM roll back in I6) who is good at grinding tips for V-Merits, and my Fire/Ice Tanker (who was rolled back in I4) who does AE farming for tickets which he uses on Bronze Rolls.

Other than those two, all my high level characters go for specific high value recipes - since most random rolls will be useless to me as far as my builds go. (Though sometimes I'll take a 10-14 Pool C roll if I feel lucky)


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by MaestroMavius View Post
Got a question though. I don't have a 50 I can farm with, and don't really require all that much. The 400 million I got off a lucky purple drop has lasted me over a year. It's just now getting low with all the 20 mill I'm giving out left and right.

So, I debated saving up A-Merits to get a Glad and become a billionaire for the 1st time. Or, just cashing in every 2 for a LotG along the way. Which of the two would you pick?

Use the 2 A merits for a level 15 stealth(run or jump), they go for 150 to 200 mill. Which is consistently higher than lotg.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by MaestroMavius View Post
Got my 2nd A-Merit from the SSA last night and headed to Trident for my LotG. Without realizing I was wasting my time seeing as I was only level 18...

So, I decided to pull up/auctionhouse, since I hadn't used that reward yet, and check the going rate. My funds are quickly depleting with all the new players, anyways.

The prices were consistent with what they'd been the past 6 months or so. (The time I've been watching) Then I clicked a level 30 recipe and noticed that somebody got very very lucky and or unlucky depending on the case.

In the history, among the 100 millions, was a single transaction for 12,000!
I know I would've smiled!

Got a question though. I don't have a 50 I can farm with, and don't really require all that much. The 400 million I got off a lucky purple drop has lasted me over a year. It's just now getting low with all the 20 mill I'm giving out left and right.

So, I debated saving up A-Merits to get a Glad and become a billionaire for the 1st time. Or, just cashing in every 2 for a LotG along the way. Which of the two would you pick?
My apologies for being late in replying to this. I thought about doing what you suggest - saving the hero merits and getting one of those bazillion inf recipes. I did the math a year ago and determined that at

$150 million per LotG = 2 H Merits.

If you converted from award merits, that's 40 million to subtract. 20 million for each one. So, you'd net 110 million. But, at 150 million, you'd have to pay 7.5 million up front, and another 7.5 million when it sold. So, you're 150 million recipe only nets you 105 million.

Say one of the PvP IOs goes for 2 billion. To reach the 2 billion mark, you would need 20 of the recipes, which at 105 million each, would give you
2,100,000,000. That's using 40 Hero merits to get 2,100,000,000.

But wait. If I use the 35 merits to get, say, the Shield Wall proc and sell it for 2,500,000,000 I'm gonna end up walking away with a lot more! And, because folks are willing to pay above the inf cap, you MUST do this in a couple of e-mails or a couple of trades, and that saves you the 10% fee from Wentworths.

But wait! Don't those LotG's sometimes sell for 200 mill? Yes, they do. (but since the Signature Arc came along, the price has dropped for some of them I've noticed) But, let's say demand (with all these new Street Justice toons) creeps up again and the value remains around 150 million.

If so, it pays to hold your alignment merits. If you notice that the market will support 200,000,000 inf LotGs. After Wentworth and Award Merit Conversion fees, you get to keep 140 million. 140,000,000 * 20 recipes = 2.8 billion for 40 Hero merits.


So, with all that math stuff, I would go for the PvP IO.

1. LotG prices are not as stable as they used to be. Each month a new arc is coming out, and I assume the same award table will come out with it. So, the supply may very well increase even more.

2. The perception is that PvP farming has been ....adjusted. The drops are not as frequent as before (that publish that had MARTy.) Because of this, the PvP procs are even more rare. I don't think anyone will pay more than 3 billion for one because of the ease of earning a hero merit. (and then earning 34 more in the same fashion) Mind you, I find it hard to believe anyone would pay more than 25k inf for any IO recipe. Yet, it's done every day.

Because scarcity increases value, the PvP IO is a safer choice. And, if something about them changes, you'll have a whole bunch of hero merits to get something else with.


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