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And I have yet to see a "choke point" run get it... |
Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy
Maybe it's just a matter of experience but I have yet to be on a league that attempted to cover all the doors and still pick up Not On My Watch... Whereas leagues who understand how to be at choke points never have any escapes.
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I mean that seriously. I'm not being hyperbolic. 18 of my 50s are full Incarnates at this point, I've been part of more BAFs than I care to think about, and NOT ONCE in all of those runs have I seen choke points work perfectly. Often when the leagues have tried them they've resulted in multiple escapes. Doors have just been the better option, unless it's a very small, very lightly incarnated league that didn't have a choice in the matter.
As for the Lambda street mobs, they represent a fair bit of extra iXP (Yes. There are people still unlocking slots who care about that-) and they don't take all THAT long to kill... And as someone who almost exclusively plays fliers, I personally think it's nice not to have to dodge the damned turrets and their "no-fly" during the AV fight. <_<
The practice of leaving those turrets in place is the primary reason I don't join OMGSpeedLAMs!11! I'd rather "waste" the two minutes it takes to clear the stupid things than get constantly knocked out of the air every time the fight moves.
The point is, there are reasons for doing things in ways outside of what's become typical for a Freedom speed run. They might not be reasons you like or care about, but that doesn't mean they don't exist or aren't reasonable. As with most situations, a little communication and understanding that Your Way is not the Only Way can go a long way.
If your doing speed runs (and that applies to TFs/SFs as well as iTrials-), just say so. If you're running it more traditionally, say that too. Give potential league and team members that information early on, and it'll resolve a lot of potential conflicts and misunderstandings.
@Brightfires - @Talisander
That chick what plays the bird-things...
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Then why don't you take matters into your own hands and form your own "all-pro" iTrial Leagues here on Exalted? Why be a "joiner" when you could take matters into your own hands by leading, instead of criticizing how others lead and run iTrials. |
Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy
I've only played lightly on Exalted but I have a different take on this situation as I have experienced it on other servers, from the position you're speaking against. Just to be fair, quitting a league because you don't want to put up with wasting time street sweeping/taking out turrets in a Lambda (as opposed to just clearing around the building and going in) isn't something I would file under "superiority." The fact is that Incarnate trials feel like a bit of a grind for a lot of people who are just trying to build t4's and have played the trials to death already. Now, many of those people (myself included) join leagues for the purpose of finishing as quickly and efficiently as possible.
It is a bit of a difficult situation, because that can be perceived as "elitism" for new players who are still getting to know the trials, but for others it's seen as a waste of time that, if it weren't wasted, could overall lead to being able to get another trial or two in for the day and maximize reward opportunities. For a lot of us,even doing trials efficiently can feel like a grind without the hassle of shaking your fist at the screen every time someone wants to kill turrets during Lambda, or spread out to each door during BAF's escaped prisoners because they don't understand how choke points work. This might be misinterpreted as a feeling of superiority, but I think the feeling of frustration/short tempers is a pretty reasonable thing in a lot of cases. |
I'm sure that for someone of your experience it should be a relatively easy task to lead an iTrial on Exalted, right? Especially with very few level 50's to choose from, most of whom don't even have their tier 1 Alpha slotted, and many who have never done any Incarnate content before. That way you can personally weed out all those players you deem unworthy before your iTrial starts, and it will no doubt be a "Master of" run every time! You'll surely save a lot of time and personal frustration that way, and won't have "the hassle of shaking your fist at the screen". What could possibly go wrong?
BOTH methods work. Its just about your team make up. If your heavy on control and AOE the doors are easier. If your not the choke points are. I think its important for people to know and understand how both work. If your leading the league it is your responsibility to decide which method will work best.
I prefer a blend. Let those who can solo a door. Put the rest of the control and aoe at the choke points and let the single target heavy people roam the paths. This generally works unless the team is overloaded with lvl 50's instead of 50+.
The number of people with Level shifts if the real determinate of prisoner phase success. The more damage each person can do and the number of pets available to help the better. If you have 15 lvl 50's on a 24 man BAF your not helping your odds. Just recognize whats going to happen, modify your tactics for your team and pray people do what they are supposed to do.
"If a system can be exploited, it will be exploited. And if a developer thinks their system cannot be exploited, it'll be exploited like a new actress in her first porn movie." Sanya Weather MMORPG Examiner
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Originally Posted by Fugacity
Then why don't you take matters into your own hands and form your own "all-pro" iTrial Leagues here on Exalted? Why be a "joiner" when you could take matters into your own hands by leading, instead of criticizing how others lead and run iTrials.
I'm sure that for someone of your experience it should be a relatively easy task to lead an iTrial on Exalted, right? Especially with very few level 50's to choose from, most of whom don't even have their tier 1 Alpha slotted, and many who have never done any Incarnate content before. That way you can personally weed out all those players you deem unworthy before your iTrial starts, and it will no doubt be a "Master of" run every time! You'll surely save a lot of time and personal frustration that way, and won't have "the hassle of shaking your fist at the screen". What could possibly go wrong? |
First of all, your hostility just isn't necessary. I mentioned in my first post that I only played lightly on Exalted (I think I have 2 characters there, neither are 50) and that I was relating experiences from other servers. You seem to be making a lot of assumptions about me in this post.
I never said there was anything wrong with doing things like iXP runs like was mentioned in a post before yours, I was just offering my perspective on trials- ie: Why I do them, and I know that a lot of people are in the same boat as me- We are looking to maximize our rewards for the time we spend.
Also, for the record, I never have and never will refuse to let anyone join a trial I run based on AT, build, or Incarnate progression. The only times I've ever gotten upset with people on leagues I've lead is when they blatantly disregarded instructions.
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Right, I don't disagree with anything you've said here aside from the matter of choke points- Perhaps you are encountering people who claim to be using the choke points but are actually spread out along pathways- That is not a good way to do it.|
Originally Posted by Bright
And I have yet to see a "choke point" run get it...
I mean that seriously. I'm not being hyperbolic. 18 of my 50s are full Incarnates at this point, I've been part of more BAFs than I care to think about, and NOT ONCE in all of those runs have I seen choke points work perfectly. Often when the leagues have tried them they've resulted in multiple escapes. Doors have just been the better option, unless it's a very small, very lightly incarnated league that didn't have a choice in the matter. As for the Lambda street mobs, they represent a fair bit of extra iXP (Yes. There are people still unlocking slots who care about that-) and they don't take all THAT long to kill... And as someone who almost exclusively plays fliers, I personally think it's nice not to have to dodge the damned turrets and their "no-fly" during the AV fight. <_< The practice of leaving those turrets in place is the primary reason I don't join OMGSpeedLAMs!11! I'd rather "waste" the two minutes it takes to clear the stupid things than get constantly knocked out of the air every time the fight moves. The point is, there are reasons for doing things in ways outside of what's become typical for a Freedom speed run. They might not be reasons you like or care about, but that doesn't mean they don't exist or aren't reasonable. As with most situations, a little communication and understanding that Your Way is not the Only Way can go a long way. If your doing speed runs (and that applies to TFs/SFs as well as iTrials-), just say so. If you're running it more traditionally, say that too. Give potential league and team members that information early on, and it'll resolve a lot of potential conflicts and misunderstandings. |
I was just relating my experiences because there was a preconceived notion in this thread that people who like to maximize their play time are somehow snoody or something. I explained how I prefer to do things and why, to make a point that none of those reasons were "I am better/too good for other players," but more a matter of "this is what I would like to accomplish with my play time and this is what works best for me to achieve that goal."
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"LRN2PLAY n00bz!" |
Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy
Right, I don't disagree with anything you've said here aside from the matter of choke points- Perhaps you are encountering people who claim to be using the choke points but are actually spread out along pathways- That is not a good way to do it.
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I kid, I kid...
Sometimes Liberty's groups do scatter more than they should when trying the choke point method, but often they don't... Which seems to be part of the problem, honestly. Many failures seem to stem simply from having a few prisoners slip through the cloud of auras, AoEs, power FX and other visual clutter without anyone noticing them. It's a just a big, blinding mess when you get that many players and pets in a tight area and if you're not all really on the ball, it's very easy to miss someone. And unlike the doors/paths hybrid method (Which has become our usual tactic lately, too-), there may not be anyone out there to catch those strays.
Anyway, not to derail the thread any more than we already have, I still think communication is the key here. We just need to talk to (and listen to-) each other when it comes to things like how we want trials and taskforces to go. As has already been mentioned, we come from a lot of different servers, each with their own conventions and SOPs, and none of us are quite sure where Exalted is going to settle yet. Eventually, the player community here will evolve its own set of standards, but until then we're all strangers in a strange land.
@Brightfires - @Talisander
That chick what plays the bird-things...
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That's why I left out what you said about frustration and replied only to short tempers, which are, by definition, unreasonable.
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Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy
Well that's your opinion and you're certainly entitled to it. Ideally I would agree with you, in a perfect world where the strategy offered by your fearless league leader during an Underground Trial isn't "U HAV 2 YELL IF U SEE A GIANT ROBOT WE HAV 2 KILL IT OR WE FAIL"
I think it's completely reasonable to become annoyed/disenchanted/grumpy with a league (especially one where the majority of the participants are perfectly content with this caliber of leadership- And yes, this is something I've personally experienced.) |
'I don't like the look of it at all,' said the King: 'however, it may kiss my hand if it likes.'
'I'd rather not,' the Cat remarked.
'Don't be impertinent,' said the King, 'and don't look at me like that!' He got behind Alice as he spoke.
'A cat may look at a king,' said Alice.
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Visit sunny Champion.
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Originally Posted by Bright
And I have yet to see a "choke point" run get it...
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'I don't like the look of it at all,' said the King: 'however, it may kiss my hand if it likes.'
'I'd rather not,' the Cat remarked.
'Don't be impertinent,' said the King, 'and don't look at me like that!' He got behind Alice as he spoke.
'A cat may look at a king,' said Alice.
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Originally Posted by Bright
As has already been mentioned, we come from a lot of different servers, each with their own conventions and SOPs, and none of us are quite sure where Exalted is going to settle yet. Eventually, the player community here will evolve its own set of standards, but until then we're all strangers in a strange land.
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word.
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The very last thing I need are alts on yet another server... I already play on four. It's getting silly. |
Originally Posted by Aneko
Visit sunny Champion.
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@Brightfires - @Talisander
That chick what plays the bird-things...
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It's not hostility, it's sarcasm seeded with facts. Hostility would be getting angry enough to shake your fist at the screen when you don't get your way in a video game. |
Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy
First of all, your hostility just isn't necessary.
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The fact is that there simply aren't enough level shifted incarnates on Exalted yet to do iTrial speed runs efficiently...yet. I've been on many iTrials on Exalted, so I know this without having to make assumptions about the quality of leadership here. The leadership has been great so far, and hopefully will continue to be.
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Originally Posted by Fugacity
It's not hostility, it's sarcasm seeded with facts. Hostility would be getting angry enough to shake your fist at the screen when you don't get your way in a video game.
The fact is that there simply aren't enough level shifted incarnates on Exalted yet to do iTrial speed runs efficiently...yet. I've been on many iTrials on Exalted, so I know this without having to make assumptions about the quality of leadership here. The leadership has been great so far, and hopefully will continue to be. |
I feel you're just not reading what I say- To repeat myself for the third time, I was not talking about any experiences on Exalted. I was addressing the general attitude that seemed present in this thread which carried the implication that people who preferred more efficient leagues were somehow snoody. For proper context, please look at the initial post I quoted in this thread and stop drawing these false conclusions from my posts.
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That seems unlikely, with the number of people who said they would be transferring established characters to that server.
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Originally Posted by Fugacity
The fact is that there simply aren't enough level shifted incarnates on Exalted yet to do iTrial speed runs efficiently.
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'I don't like the look of it at all,' said the King: 'however, it may kiss my hand if it likes.'
'I'd rather not,' the Cat remarked.
'Don't be impertinent,' said the King, 'and don't look at me like that!' He got behind Alice as he spoke.
'A cat may look at a king,' said Alice.
You can also /chanjoin BMT of Exalted or /chanjoin Exalted Events and they'll help you out with your teaming needs. There's also Exalted-United if you haven't already gotten an invite. The help channel can get a little snarky at times and well broadcast, that's just broadcast...
@SCyberTaz / Champion & Exalted: Home of my anthology characters.
Virtue: Where my anthology characters get all freakynaughty...
http://www.facebook.com/SCyberTaz (I'd kiss your rear, butt I don't have time to cover the acreage!)
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The lady doth protest too much, methinks.|
Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy
I was addressing the general attitude that seemed present in this thread which carried the implication that people who preferred more efficient leagues were somehow snoody.
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Originally Posted by Aneko
That seems unlikely, with the number of people who said they would be transferring established characters to that server.
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There is also the Facebook page for the Exalted server
https://www.facebook.com/#!/groups/172581702825009/
@SCyberTaz / Champion & Exalted: Home of my anthology characters.
Virtue: Where my anthology characters get all freakynaughty...
http://www.facebook.com/SCyberTaz (I'd kiss your rear, butt I don't have time to cover the acreage!)
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The problem from this person was not "it's a waste of time" his problem was "we do it in the correct order on freedom" - he WANTED to kill the guns, but thought that the leader was stupid for killing them "in the wrong order" and said as much before he left.|
Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy
I've only played lightly on Exalted but I have a different take on this situation as I have experienced it on other servers, from the position you're speaking against. Just to be fair, quitting a league because you don't want to put up with wasting time street sweeping/taking out turrets in a Lambda (as opposed to just clearing around the building and going in) isn't something I would file under "superiority." The fact is that Incarnate trials feel like a bit of a grind for a lot of people who are just trying to build t4's and have played the trials to death already. Now, many of those people (myself included) join leagues for the purpose of finishing as quickly and efficiently as possible.
It is a bit of a difficult situation, because that can be perceived as "elitism" for new players who are still getting to know the trials, but for others it's seen as a waste of time that, if it weren't wasted, could overall lead to being able to get another trial or two in for the day and maximize reward opportunities. For a lot of us,even doing trials efficiently can feel like a grind without the hassle of shaking your fist at the screen every time someone wants to kill turrets during Lambda, or spread out to each door during BAF's escaped prisoners because they don't understand how choke points work. This might be misinterpreted as a feeling of superiority, but I think the feeling of frustration/short tempers is a pretty reasonable thing in a lot of cases. |
Personally I do not like killing turrets, no matter the order or situation. But I understand that people do, and tolerate it. I also point out the irony that these speed demons are leaving bosses (worth the same as turrets, which have 2x the health) at 1/4 HP, where they may be AoEd with other bosses, in the facilities.
It's not logical to quit a trial over inefficiency in such a way - if you want to run a speed trial, you form it yourself and recruit people with similar intentions. This is never an issue of "well, darn, he started forming a regular run 30 seconds before I could have started my speed run, I guess my only recourse is to join his and then quit, stating my displeasure that he is not running things the way that I would like to run them, after never having opened my mouth." yes this will certainly show him.
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Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy
Well that's your opinion and you're certainly entitled to it. Ideally I would agree with you, in a perfect world where the strategy offered by your fearless league leader during an Underground Trial isn't "U HAV 2 YELL IF U SEE A GIANT ROBOT WE HAV 2 KILL IT OR WE FAIL"
I think it's completely reasonable to become annoyed/disenchanted/grumpy with a league (especially one where the majority of the participants are perfectly content with this caliber of leadership- And yes, this is something I've personally experienced.) |
Quitting because you do not like killing turrets is not the equivalent of quitting because the leader is ruining the trial by his (or her. it's.) lack of coherent and logical directions.
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Originally Posted by Aneko
That seems unlikely, with the number of people who said they would be transferring established characters to that server.
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I'm not saying it's everybody who has transferred - but a few bad apples spoil the bunch.
-Proud leader of Captain Planet's Magical Friends
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Originally Posted by Fugacity
The lady doth protest too much, methinks.
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Well, "order" seems like a pretty irrelevant thing to me also and a totally silly thing to complain about since it has no impact whatsoever. I understand why people do it to an extent, but that doesn't mean I agree with it per say. Even when I decide to work on Incarnate stuff for a character who's never done a trial before, I just buy the friggin' XP. It's the fastest way to get things unlocked without having to worry about doing things like making a Lambda take an extra 15 minutes every time you do it.|
Originally Posted by Virusman
The problem from this person was not "it's a waste of time" his problem was "we do it in the correct order on freedom" - he WANTED to kill the guns, but thought that the leader was stupid for killing them "in the wrong order" and said as much before he left.
Personally I do not like killing turrets, no matter the order or situation. But I understand that people do, and tolerate it. I also point out the irony that these speed demons are leaving bosses (worth the same as turrets, which have 2x the health) at 1/4 HP, where they may be AoEd with other bosses, in the facilities. |
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| It's not logical to quit a trial over inefficiency in such a way - if you want to run a speed trial, you form it yourself and recruit people with similar intentions. This is never an issue of "well, darn, he started forming a regular run 30 seconds before I could have started my speed run, I guess my only recourse is to join his and then quit, stating my displeasure that he is not running things the way that I would like to run them, after never having opened my mouth." yes this will certainly show him. |
Re: Attitude
Special server for special people.
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Been on Exalted since it began not once have I seen any of this so-called behavior. Every time I asked a Question, I get help quickly and when people ask a Question on the Help Channel in between all the people talking they are answered quickly with no attitude. |
Originally Posted by Frostburnt
I'm writing this post to try and figure out what's the deal with all this crap @$$ attitude going on this server? I've been hearing it from several people I play with and random players that the general attitude of this server is just plain rude and at some times, down right out of line. Cussing players for asking questions, berating people for asking for a farm or team, cracking on costumes, names, etc, etc. Folks this is plain and down right the most foolish bunch of garbage I've ever heard. We all pay our fifteen bucks to play the game and to play on this server. If you don't like someone that you don't know from the next man (unless you actually do) then stop being rude and quit giving folks a hard time for no reason. This is not that special of a server at all folks, it really isn't. Sure you pay to play on it whoop-tee-doo, does that make you entitled or special? Mmm sorry but no, it doesn't at all. I myself have personally not encountered any of this but I'm just taking a stand for those that are. Enough of the foolishness folks. Its just a game and if you weren't aware, everything we do in this game is recorded so I'd hate to hear someone got banned for being reported because it can and it will happen.
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I have never once seen any attitude or elitist behavior at all. You said you did not see it yourself. If you have not seen any of this so-called issue yourself, why are you making a stand for people that "claim" this is happening. If you have seen it yourself then maybe you can give us examples.
So far Help and all the Exalted Player Made Chats have been really friendly.
I am sure a small group might be gruff and jerks but never when I am on. Never in a team I have been on. Never anyone I talked to. Same with my wife, Sidhe Blade. Never in any chat channel in the game.
One thing that is true about any server is that it's the people that have these sort of attitudes or people that just wish to be jerks for their own amusment that are the most notiable.
That doesn't mean there is an issue with the server, it just means you've taken more note of this outlier behavior rather than the norm behavior, because the norm behavior is relatively unnoticable. It's typically just people that go about their business rarely saying anything on publc chat channels except for when they're looking for a team for something.
It seems to me the majority of actions showing typical server behavior takes place in teams, SG/VG chat, and coalition chat. I find the behavior in those areas to be far from what the original poster was declaring as the defining behavior of the server.
Public chat channels, you can take them or leave them. It's pretty easy to ignore the jerks and still get the benefits of those public channels.
Ok, OP... If you haven't experienced this "attitude" but only heard about it, why go as far as starting a thread about it. I get it. I do. You are proud of the server, and it upset you, and you got defensive like a mama bear over her cub. I get it. I mean, why else would you jump to conclusions so quickly.
However, I've seen attitude. And let me assure you with complete sincerity, Exalted is very tame. Yes, debates arrise. But debates aren't bad. And they can be rather informative.
AKA: Ath BS/SD Brute (Hero)
"The Fall and Rise of Athanatos" Arc ID: 521712
Outcast Cooler - "Those who live by the sword get shot by those who don't."
Who do I have to *&^% around here to get more Targeted AoE recipes added?
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