Sebastian Shaw (questions)

Even calm Hulk (not so calm he's Banner, though) is more than un-charged Shaw could handle. Spidey level strength is likely more than un-charged Shaw could handle.

And then there's that. Also, concussive....was just on the tip of my fingers, and couldn't get it out. Thanks

force is not energy... there are strong and weak nuclear forces... atomic/nuclear energy is derived from the release of energy from that potential state.

Nuclear energy is not force. Nuclear energy is the potential energy connected to the binding strength of the strong force in the nucleus of the atom, and the potential energy connected to the mass differential of nucleon arrangement due to the weak force. Its no different than the potential energy stored in a mass suspended in a gravitational field. The field exerts a force on the object, but the object contains potential energy due to the field potential radiating from the gravitational field surrounding the object.

In beta decay (specifically beta plus decay) a proton spontaneously converts into a neutron, a positron, and a neutrino. Since the rest mass of a neutron is higher than that of a proton, this form of decay ordinarily cannot happen spontaneously. It does in atomic nuclei when the binding energy of the original nucleus is higher than the binding energy of the daughter nucleus. This potential energy feeds the reaction: the parent nucleus "rolls down the potential curve" surrendering energy to the proton, which can then convert into a neutron and positron (and a neutrino). Potential binding energy is converted into both kinetic energy *and* more potential energy in the form of mass: the reaction products have more mass than the original proton, because it takes some of the potential energy from the original nucleus and converts it into mass to produce the three daughter particles.

No one is talking about weak and strong forces other than you. What you are describing is Potential energy but no one means that. They are talking about an atomic bomb exploding in your face. That is kinetic energy.

Please, pay attention to what is said and understand the conversation before interjecting.

Oh, the irony...

This is why there *are* different classifications of energy besides just potential and kinetic...and why I posted the wiki link. Kinetic energy is certainly present when an atomic bomb goes off, but so is thermal, luminous, nuclear, sound...

Like Arcana said, when talking about Shaw's powers, "... when we say he absorbs "kinetic energy" we mean attacks that deliver concussive force, because that's what he's been observed to absorb". There's too much else going on in an atomic bomb explosion for the question "Can Shaw absorbe enough "kinetic energy" to survive an atomic bomb?" to be relevant when discussing the extent of Shaw's ability.

He might be able to absorb all of the "kinetic energy" from whatever debris from it that hits him...but the radiation will kill him if the heat doesn't do it first....because the RL kinetic energy in present in those other types of energy is *not* what Shaw's power can absorb as far has been demonstrated in the comics.

No.

Arcana was speaking directly to what I said thinking that I'm talking about the atomic forces at work for some reason. We're all talking about a bomb going off other than her. Thus she is not paying attention to what is being said.

Gotta disagree with that last sentence. Shaw has repeatedly handled haymakers from Colossus without any problem. Spidey a full step or two down from Piotr - if Shaw can handle Colossus' punches, he can easily handle Spidey's. If I recall my TSR Marvel Superheroes RPG:

Colossus: STR75 (Monsterous)
Iron Man/Vision/She-Hulk: STR50 (Amazing)
Spidey: STR40 (Incredible)

Yeah...I went there.

Um...you're the only one to mention atomic bombs. You claimed that nuclear energy = kinetic energy. She explained why you were wrong, which involved the nuances of nuclear energy.

However the point that matters is that nuclear energy is not "kinetic energy" as far as Shaw's power is concerned.

Completely agree. Ordinary day in Shaw's life, that's 100% accurate. But there was a caveat in the question... "Unpowered" Shaw. Shaw generally takes roundhouse kicks to the face with his eggs in the morning so he's always running at superhuman levels, but when he's not charged up, he's just a normal man.

I'm really trying to be nice and you just keep trying to tick me off.

I mentioned nuclear energy as an example of something the is something but comics don't always use it that way. it's obvious I meant Nuclear energy that comes off of a fusion or fission reaction as in the case of a bomb considering the context of, you know, someone hitting someone else.

As far as Arcana being right. No, She most certainly is not. Potential energy is energy that is STORED. Any energy that is in the process of moving or doing work or any thing that you might consider energetic is Kinetic. This is basic physics.

If I bring up an atom, that atom is all potential energy if you could get it into stasis in a single spot. Anything that moves in or around that atom is Kinetic energy. For example if I throw another particle at that atom and split it, the result would be a mass of kinetic energy being released. Yes there would be potential energy still in the system. But...

If you want to be really specific though the resulting mass that is lose (that is potential energy that is lost) and becomes kinetic is only a fraction of the overall energy and the majority of the energy in the system remains potential, but to argue about that would be pedantic as this is true of EVERY SYSTEM and because of that the delineation of potential and kinetic energy systems becomes worthless.


As to the reason to discuss this in this topic is beyond me considering it's pretty much stated in X-Men that the mutant powers defy known laws of physics and if they were studied rather than harassed the things they would learn would be wondrous.

As far as why Shaw can absorb some but not all forms of kinetic energy likely has to do with different particles, frequencies, and methods of motion if we were to replicate it in the real world. Normal matter (which is generally neutrally charged) is a hell of a lot different than a photon hitting you or an electron hitting you because they have different modes of moving, different frequencies, and have different properties.

And in reality everyone absorbs kinetic energy, converts it into potential energy, and later reconverts it to kinetic energy. That's how everything works. The only difference between Shaw and everyone else the ability to convert it to potential energy really fast and then also to convert it back to kinetic energy types of his choosing I gather.

i would also imagine that the fainting or whatever that occurs is due to some energy density issue that at some point the amount mass in his body (which he'd gain when absorbing energy) would weight a ton on his body and it would just give out under stress.

Yes, lets pay attention shall we:

I quoted this bit and responded:

I said: that's a new one on me. Nuclear energy is not kinetic energy, nuclear energy is typically potential energy.

You then said:

That's when I said:

Bizarrely, you decided to follow up with:

One post after saying "force is not energy... there are strong and weak nuclear forces" you then say "no one is talking about weak and strong forces other than you." You do that a lot, by the way.

Once again: nuclear energy is potential energy, not kinetic energy. The by products of nuclear energy are typically kinetic energy, and its a truism that you can't really "use" potential energy: potential energy is stored energy, while kinetic energy is energy due to motion, so using energy is almost by definition a kinetic process. But once it becomes kinetic energy, its not really nuclear any more.

They didn't even call Spider-Man's strength level Amazing? That's just lame.

Remember the game was published some time ago - the 80s - and before a lot of Spidey buffs.

And incredible isn't anything to be scoffed at.

Spider-Man's Dexterity was Amazing. His strength was only Incredible.

Not many people had both high Strength and Dexterity. I think Colossus' dex was Typical (6).

I am Chyll, and I approve every bit of this post.

I think it should be noted that comic-Shaw and movie-Shaw have almost nothing in common. The comic-Shaw was a fat man who led the Hellfire club in the 1980s. The movie-Shaw was Kevin Bacon in the 1960s.

Comic-Shaw could only absorb kinetic energy. We know almost nothing about movie-Shaw's powers, but they appear to be quite different.