Quote:
I THINK you're saying that while Stone is #1 you don't like the penalties and that you like Invuln and Electric while not being sure about Ice. |
Originally Posted by evil women for pinn
eh it give the most well-built its granite but i hate the almost 0 damage out put but i guess its great if you only want to tank
 i found that ELA as some good res too but it depends on what you like but try out inv and WP willpower has a good advantge but the edges go to inv sadly but the ELA can end up 77.6ish to res on S/L has a good res to psi and energy and NE and well-capped fire and cold end up good too so each tank ids a great value in its own way and those res %s are not from that power surge. So really each tank has its own things all tanks are good fire armor its really a more farmer type i know some disagree but its true. Ice im just not convinced alot on. |
Please, think about what you've written before posting... that's very hard to decipher. I'm sure you're an intelligent person, unfortunately what comes across in your post is mainly gibberish. It creates the impression of a young child, not that of a mature, intelligent person.
COH has just been murdered by NCSoft. http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes
Quote:
I am so Confused why you mention ELA in a def based tanker post???
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Originally Posted by evil women for pinn
eh it give the most well-built its granite but i hate the almost 0 damage out put but i guess its great if you only want to tank
i found that ELA as some good res too but it depends on what you like but try out inv and WP willpower has a good advantge but the edges go to inv sadly but the ELA can end up 77.6ish to res on S/L has a good res to psi and energy and NE and well-capped fire and cold end up good too so each tank ids a great value in its own way and those res %s are not from that power surge. So really each tank has its own things all tanks are good fire armor its really a more farmer type i know some disagree but its true. Ice im just not convinced alot on. |
Get Worked!
Quote:
Ice Armor is great! If what im hearing out of you wanting survivability and taunting/protecting your team ICE IS FOR YOU!
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Originally Posted by Mint
Well, the tank im wanting to make is a tank that has the ability to jump in a massive group of baddies lvl's higher than me. Protect the team by crowd control. I want to be the tank that protects the team. I feel that ice armor might be the best for that, cause ice can survive and crowd control by armor that slow's the enemies recharge rate down and slows their movement speed from be able to reach your teammates and keeps them by you, where you want them. Ice patch will work for crowd control, cause you can't fight if you can't stand, and icesicles keeps hitting them keeping aggro on you. Is this logic wrong?
Looking for that tank that survives and crowd control that keeps his team alive. other armor's keep YOU alive maybe not the team. Ice seems to have powers that do more than keep you alive, they keep the baddies from having the ability to reach your teammates, and attack at a normal rate. Is this the best armor you think for survivability and protecting your team? anyone please comment and yes ice patch is sec. i know that with that being said you think ice/ice is the best for those reasons above listed? |
Get Worked!
Quote:
They require care and love. Give them the good IOs! Kinetic Combat is your friend(So is eradication). While running through mobs Energy Absorption easily ups your Smash/leth/Energy/NegEng Defense to 70%. What? Ice doesn't have good resistance??? This is true, but ice does have solid hit points, a great self heal, and Hibernate if things go downhill quickly(I hardly ever have to use Hibernate). The reason you may not be so convinced is that Ice tanks are somewhat rare. They are often overshadowed by Invul, stone, and willpower. Like I said before; Ice tankers are "Underrated and Overpowered." Aggro control is very good. So is survivability. Its good. Trust me.
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Originally Posted by evil women for pinn
. Ice im just not convinced alot on.
|
Kill the enemy. Take their souls. Drink their blood.
Oh good grief.
Simple answer:
Inv/dark/energy.
Take the leadership pool. For terrorize protection.
You will be fast and hold aggro well. You will be stupidly tough. You have a steady self heal built right into your attack chain.
Well-built, people will stand and stare at the things you tank without effort.
Incarnate powers just make you even tougher.
You can debate all day, just get started, you will not be disappointed.
The best defensive tanker.. pretty much any tanker that brings along a defender/corruptor/controller in what they are weak in. People do this all the time with grantie by bringing along a kin.. but an Ice tanker can get a sonic defender an elec tanker could get an Ice or FF ect.. so the best defensive tanker is the smart tanker that knows how to build a team around the limitation that their set has.
Probably the only tank to avoid there is Willpower whose PBAoE taunt won't hold the enemies on them. But for what you want to do, I'm going to suggest Dark/Super Strength or Dark/Electric. (Either work, as does Dark/Stone). You get Mag 8 worth of taunt auras (as indeed you do with ice), and there's actually a use for those near pointless handclap powers - they now stun bosses. Plus with stealth you can pop up right in the middle of bad guys. (Dark suffers a little against AVs).
And as for tanking Lts, I think I've got a controller somewhere that can manage that. (And not my Ill/Rad).
Quote:
That won't help answer this question "Help making the best defensive tanker" as a Tanker if your dependent on buffs your screwed.
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Originally Posted by Montaugh
The best defensive tanker.. pretty much any tanker that brings along a defender/corruptor/controller in what they are weak in. People do this all the time with grantie by bringing along a kin.. but an Ice tanker can get a sonic defender an elec tanker could get an Ice or FF ect.. so the best defensive tanker is the smart tanker that knows how to build a team around the limitation that their set has.
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Get Worked!
Quote:
I agree.
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Originally Posted by ptdearmond
That won't help answer this question "Help making the best defensive tanker" as a Tanker if your dependent on buffs your screwed.
|
Kill the enemy. Take their souls. Drink their blood.
Will super reflexes bring anything good for tankers? Cause if you get hit, can you take the hit it? Seems kinda squishy to me.
From what im reading, it looks like Ice tank will be the route to go, what about a secondary should I go ice or kinetic?
Thanks again to everyone's reply, I appreciate the feedback.
Aim is survivability and protect the team by making the enemies unable to hurt team.
I went with ice melee. But its your toon. Build it how you want 
Kill the enemy. Take their souls. Drink their blood.
another quick question, which are better for you toon, invention enhancements or H/O's?
I use both, but I'm pretty sure that IOs hold most of edge in today's playing field.
Kill the enemy. Take their souls. Drink their blood.
reason is I hate granite's penalties hate em i hate not running at high speeds plus i hate tp as a travel 
but on ELA i was just saying but over all if you want def just god go with shield defense seriously best defensive tank granite doesn't offer what they have. Granite is res and little knacks of defense.I was only talking about ELA for another tanker type but defensive granite and shield are the best defensive type
Quote:
Reading down through all the responses you've received I have to agree that for overall survivability Stone wins against all except Psi and even then with the healing power even that isn't an issue overall. |
Originally Posted by Mint
Ok, I use to play this game all the time when it came out, then took about a 5 year break from the game. I come back to alot of new stuff, when i played invul. tank was the strongest defensively. My question to everyone is that I want to make a tank that is mainly on extreme on defense and extreme on hitpoints and little offense. I want to be the tank on the team that can walk into any group of baddies and keep their aggro and never die.
Any help or thoughts would be appreciated. |
Between mudpots, taunt, stomp, it has a very nice crowd control feature in everything except AE max NPC runs which spawn numerous mobs. Using Teleport or having a Kinetic support toon to Speed Boost you makes you tops vs. other tanks. Without the Kinetic support Stone becomes a real problem, and sadly the Devs haven't thrown stone tanks a bone in years on this issue. Out of Rooted a stone should be put back to normal speed, it really doesn't make sense that the penalty should be across the whole build simply out of concept.
I run a Stone/Super Strength and he often has been exactly as you describe, but I have gotten adept at using Teleport for anything except cave runs. I am experimenting with Stone/Dark Melee, and have seen Stone/Fire do very good as well. If you don't want that issue with speed, then moving to Ice is a nice alternative because it does have similar crowd control methodology.
These days with all the changes in the last 5 years you've missed many other ATs becoming stronger so that you may find that max tanking isn't as necessary for alot of missions as it once was. Crowd control by defenders/Controllers/corrupters is much better than 5 years ago, and overall you'll find that teams can mow down even level and +1 mobs without issue. It is when you get about that +1 that's where Tanks begin to shine again.
Given that change your choice of build would be better as a non-stone for all but the most vicious Task forces and trials.
On the issue of (SR)Super Reflexes, it requires super tight builds, essentially taking every power in the SR set. However Invention Origins and running Elude make SR pretty much unkillable until elude drops. The biggest problem is that if you do get hit you take the max damage, but having green inspirations to chew on help. If it does come to tanks it would be a very nice set except for the lack of any secondary crowd control for the situations you figure to be involved in.
I'm currently trying out a Shield Tank and enjoying it into the 30's and when he's been exemped up to 49 he's still survived well.
"It is that balance, the ground between EB and AV, where the PvP struggle should exist. Where a 1v1 becomes a struggle of equals, and 1vMany gives the benefit to the 1."
Freedom: Fireocity, Electro Imp, Gotya
Infinity: Meteor Storm, Mutai Kid, General Bot, Da Smasher
From all my years of tanking with every tank-set around, far out Granite (stone) remains 1 of the toughest to take down, but Inv comming pretty close second due the huge defense they gain from their toggle (and tohit).
But there is no tank that can jump in any given group of mobs, positional defense typed will have a huge advantage versus Psi based mobs (wich is the weakness on many tanksets), but they also have lesser resistance to migiate the hits that will pass their defenses.
With only Granite (and stoneskin) you hit cap SL and nearly 80% resist all-non-psi, 32% defense to all except Psi, you can bump this up with Weave, Manu and 3% global to push it near the 45% softcap. From there a bunch of sets you can easily take away the -60% recharge (im at 67.50% atm).
As you take tough/weave (incase you want the 45% softcap), you can even tank pre-32 content, not perfectly par with other tanks, but with a pretty heavy defense against E/NE, Psi and S/L, along with moderate resistance against fire/ice. But the drawback, you have to use rooted to have mez-protection, so you will be still slow and stuck to the floor.
To bump up your survival even further, ice melee. With huge ammount of -slow, a single target hold, a knockdown icepatch (perma) and a AoE footstomp-alike sleep (same dmg/recharge). True, doesnt work against AV's, but against missions, icepatch keeps down several mobs at a time
50)Sinergy X/(50)Mika.
(50)MaceX/(50)Encore
Sign the petition, dont let CoH go down! SIGN!
Turns out I found on another server that I have a lvl 32 ice/ice tank from years ago that I totally forgot about, so I have a tank now I can roll with. I will have to respec him and fix his moves. Question is I dont even know the invention enhancements that well, do I just slot S/O's or go straight to I/O's.
Quote:
I wasn't clear. I changed subjects and started talking to the orginal poster and not you.|
Originally Posted by Giant2005
Most of what I said was with reference to Kinetic Melee and their -Damage secondary. Not Dark Melee and their -ToHit.
Dark Melee was just mentioned as a side note because of the positives of Siphon Life. |
Re: The order of magnitude thing.
My math was off. I was thinking each hit, not each swing-and-a-miss.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Mint
Turns out I found on another server that I have a lvl 32 ice/ice tank from years ago that I totally forgot about, so I have a tank now I can roll with. I will have to respec him and fix his moves. Question is I dont even know the invention enhancements that well, do I just slot S/O's or go straight to I/O's.
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Quick slotting suggestions: Kinetic combat and Haymakers, there's a taunt with smashing/lethal defense, a slow with it, Icicles can take...I think it's Multi-Strike, which gives defense and is great on damage and endurance, but I think the defense comes from the whole six set, so you'd not be able to ad procs [short for procedure, but really it's a % change for something to happen. Usually done for extra damage.] I think with that, slotting your shields, and putting one common defese IO in Combat Jumping, you hit 45%.
Here's my ice/dark asbuilt. It's not perfect in a min-max way, but totally capable and he's not getting respecced in a long time since I'm working on other alts now.
Ouf. This is prior to hitting 50 and the enhancements are from all over the place as far as levels go. I haven't even updated the common IOs.
I totally, totally recommend not taking Salt Crystals. I was getting it for more AoE for taunty purposes but my damage aura breaks them free immediately. I've done pyronic judgement [recommend] and Rularuu Lore [total crap, avoid, but looks great.] Also, I never turn Maneuvers on unless I'm exempted into the 20s, which happens a lot as this toon has mostly run Ouro flashbacks. That's also the reason I tend to slot bonus sets at around lv 27, even though getting the numbers I want takes more slots. It's a cheap build if you remove the uniques.
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Edited to add: No one here will like this build. It was a levelling build, but the sets are what I'm showing you. Also, capped with only shields, sets, and CJ. No wasted powers.
Quote:
I'd say survivability is the most important thing for a tank. You can't control mob aggro if you can't survive the mob.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
Shameless plug: There's a lot more to tanking than just surviving.
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Quote:
On the other hand it doesn't matter how durable a tank is if he's unable or unwilling to hold aggro and protect the team. As a tanking tanker you have to be durable enough to survive aggro until your team drops the spawn and have enough left to go straight to the next spawn.|
Originally Posted by Hatred666
I'd say survivability is the most important thing for a tank. You can't control mob aggro if you can't survive the mob.
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It's impressive to be able to go AFK solo with 4 AV's pounding on you but realistically speaking that's overkill for most of the game.
Personally my criteria for a good tanker is:
- Be able to manage aggro and hold the attention of a spawn.
- Be able to survive the attention of the spawn.
- Be able to contribute damage to the team so the spawn dies faster.
COH has just been murdered by NCSoft. http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes
Granite armor with psi def softcap:
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1,942
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Level 50 Magic Tanker
Primary Power Set: Stone Armor
Secondary Power Set: Super Strength
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Concealment
Power Pool: Teleportation
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Pyre Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Stone Skin -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), ImpArm-ResDam/EndRdx(3), ImpArm-ResDam/Rchg(3), ImpArm-ResDam(5)
Level 1: Jab -- HO:Nucle(A), HO:Nucle(5), HO:Nucle(25)
Level 2: Earth's Embrace -- Dct'dW-EndRdx/Rchg(A), Dct'dW-Heal/Rchg(7), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(7), Dct'dW-Heal(9), Dct'dW-Rchg(9)
Level 4: Haymaker -- HO:Nucle(A), HO:Nucle(43), HO:Nucle(46)
Level 6: Mud Pots -- Sciroc-Acc/Dmg(A), Sciroc-Dmg/EndRdx(17), Sciroc-Dmg/Rchg(19), Sciroc-Acc/Rchg(19), Sciroc-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(21), Sciroc-Dam%(21)
Level 8: Rooted -- Mrcl-Heal/EndRdx(A), Mrcl-EndRdx/Rchg(11), Mrcl-Heal/Rchg(11), Mrcl-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(13), Mrcl-Heal(13), Mrcl-Rcvry+(17)
Level 10: Taunt -- Zinger-Taunt/Rchg/Rng(A)
Level 12: Boxing -- Acc-I(A)
Level 14: Tough -- ImpArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), ImpArm-ResDam/Rchg(15), ImpArm-ResDam(15)
Level 16: Hand Clap -- Rope-Acc/Rchg(A), Rope-EndRdx/Stun(29), Rope-Acc/EndRdx(29), Rope-Stun/Rng(34), Rope-Acc/Stun/Rchg(37), Rope-Acc/Stun(40)
Level 18: Grant Invisibility -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 20: Weave -- LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(23), LkGmblr-Def(23), LkGmblr-Rchg+(25)
Level 22: Invisibility -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 24: Teleport -- Range-I(A)
Level 26: Teleport Foe -- Acc-I(A)
Level 28: Team Teleport -- Winter-ResSlow(A)
Level 30: Maneuvers -- LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(31), LkGmblr-Def(31), LkGmblr-Rchg+(31)
Level 32: Granite Armor -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(33), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(33), ImpArm-ResDam/EndRdx(33), ImpArm-ResDam/Rchg(34), ImpArm-ResDam(34)
Level 35: Hurl -- Apoc-Dmg(A), Apoc-Dmg/Rchg(36), Apoc-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(36), Apoc-Acc/Rchg(36), Apoc-Dmg/EndRdx(37), Apoc-Dam%(37)
Level 38: Foot Stomp -- Sciroc-Acc/Dmg(A), Sciroc-Dmg/EndRdx(39), Sciroc-Dmg/Rchg(39), Sciroc-Acc/Rchg(39), Sciroc-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(40), Sciroc-Dam%(40)
Level 41: Ring of Fire -- Dev'n-Acc/Dmg(A), Dev'n-Dmg/EndRdx(42), Dev'n-Dmg/Rchg(42), Dev'n-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(42), Dev'n-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(43), Dev'n-Hold%(43)
Level 44: Char -- Dev'n-Acc/Dmg(A), Dev'n-Dmg/EndRdx(45), Dev'n-Dmg/Rchg(45), Dev'n-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(45), Dev'n-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(46), Dev'n-Hold%(46)
Level 47: Fire Blast -- Dev'n-Acc/Dmg(A), Dev'n-Dmg/EndRdx(48), Dev'n-Dmg/Rchg(48), Dev'n-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(48), Dev'n-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(50), Dev'n-Hold%(50)
Level 49: Rage -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(50)
Level 0: Freedom Phalanx Reserve
Level 0: Portal Jockey
Level 0: Task Force Commander
Level 0: The Atlas Medallion
Level 50: Cardiac Partial Core Revamp
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(A)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- P'Shift-End%(A), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc(27), P'Shift-EndMod(27)
------------
Set Bonus Totals:
- 13% DamageBuff(Smashing)
- 13% DamageBuff(Lethal)
- 13% DamageBuff(Fire)
- 13% DamageBuff(Cold)
- 13% DamageBuff(Energy)
- 13% DamageBuff(Negative)
- 13% DamageBuff(Toxic)
- 13% DamageBuff(Psionic)
- 3% Defense(Melee)
- 3% Defense(Smashing)
- 3% Defense(Lethal)
- 7,06% Defense(Fire)
- 7,06% Defense(Cold)
- 3% Defense(Energy)
- 3% Defense(Negative)
- 34,9% Defense(Psionic)
- 3% Defense(Ranged)
- 11,1% Defense(AoE)
- 2% Enhancement(Stun)
- 52,5% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
- 36% Enhancement(Accuracy)
- 9% Enhancement(Heal)
- 5% FlySpeed
- 316,2 HP (16,9%) HitPoints
- 5% JumpHeight
- 5% JumpSpeed
- MezResist(Held) 11,6%
- MezResist(Terrorized) 2,2%
- 10% (0,17 End/sec) Recovery
- 108% (8,43 HP/sec) Regeneration
- 20% ResEffect(FlySpeed)
- 20% ResEffect(RechargeTime)
- 20% ResEffect(RunSpeed)
- 2,21% Resistance(Fire)
- 2,21% Resistance(Cold)
- 6,25% Resistance(Negative)
- 5% RunSpeed
Code:
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English isn't my birth language, so don't blame me if I do some mistakes. thank you !
Quote:
Couple of problems, the end is going to get you on that build when u attack. You have to be rooted for the miracle proc to work. A snail will beat u in a race.
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Originally Posted by slaad
Granite armor with psi def softcap:
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Quote:
I would much rather slot for speed than to slot for psi defense.
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Originally Posted by LSK
Couple of problems, the end is going to get you on that build when u attack. You have to be rooted for the miracle proc to work. A snail will beat u in a race.
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Then there's the question so obvious that I'm almost afraid to ask it. If you want Psi def, why not take Minerals and slot it instead of slotting for all those bonuses? Minerals slotted to the ED cap and the Steadfast +Def gives you 42% Psi def anyway, so simply taking Weave or Maneuvers would soft-cap you.
I know a lot of Stone tanks don't take Minerals, but it's *got* to be more useful than Team Teleport.
/boggle
My Characters
Knight Court--A CoH Story Complete 2/3/2012
eh it give the most well-built its granite but i hate the almost 0 damage out put but i guess its great if you only want to tank
i found that ELA as some good res too but it depends on what you like but try out inv and WP willpower has a good advantge but the edges go to inv sadly but the ELA can end up 77.6ish to res on S/L has a good res to psi and energy and NE and well-capped fire and cold end up good too so each tank ids a great value in its own way and those res %s are not from that power surge. So really each tank has its own things all tanks are good fire armor its really a more farmer type i know some disagree but its true. Ice im just not convinced alot on.