Isn't it funny that....
By
Captain_Photon,
Posted on: 2011-08-19 13:28 in ALL ACCESS Gameplay Technical Issues Bugs
I'd say Memory leak > anything. Sure having a glitched map sucks, not being able to play for more than 30-60 minutes sucks more.
You also have to remember that the people who fix bugs aren't (always) the same people who make the new stuff. I seriously doubt that SexyJay or Noble Savage fix bugs in the game maps, or the powers team have anything to do with map bugs.
While there may be some overlap in a person's training in working on the game coding, I don't see how making a beam rifle equates to not fixing a map bug.
I sit in my zen of not being able to do anything right while simultaniously not being able to do anything wrong. Om. -CuppaJo
It is by caffeine alone that I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shaking, the shaking becomes a warning. It is by caffeine alone that I set my mind in motion.
It's been like that for years, the fact that it's still not resolved is either laziness, contentedness, incompetence, ignorance from one or more people or something else.
Fact of the matter is that the one in charge of the game should have stepped up and opened his or her mouth and placed the right people on this too fix.
In all sports the players are the ones on the field making the mistakes, but the coach is always the one blamed. He is supposed to make sure that everyone knows what to do, and work as a team. Same here, the person highest in the chain of command should have made sure that within a certain amount of time this would be fixed.
But hey, it's not like it's a Signature Arc, right?
Dark Energon, Founder of the Freedom Legion SG on Guardian server.
(SG founded on 12-08-'09, Top100: 08-17-'10, Top50: 12-23-'10, Top25: 12-11-'11)
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Easier to just forget the old stuff and move forward....apparently.
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Originally Posted by Dark Energon
It's been like that for years, the fact that it's still not resolved is either laziness, contentedness, incompetence, ignorance from one or more people or something else.
Fact of the matter is that the one in charge of the game should have stepped up and opened his or her mouth and placed the right people on this too fix. In all sports the players are the ones on the field making the mistakes, but the coach is always the one blamed. He is supposed to make sure that everyone knows what to do, and work as a team. Same here, the person highest in the chain of command should have made sure that within a certain amount of time this would be fixed. But hey, it's not like it's a Signature Arc, right? |
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It's not a critical bug by any means. The TF is perfectly completable in its current state (in fact, I just finished an LGTF 10 minutes ago, ran like a dream). It certainly would be nice if it were fixed, but I doubt it's at the top of their to-do list, nor should it be.
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Originally Posted by Dark Energon
It's been like that for years, the fact that it's still not resolved is either laziness, contentedness, incompetence, ignorance from one or more people or something else.
Fact of the matter is that the one in charge of the game should have stepped up and opened his or her mouth and placed the right people on this too fix. In all sports the players are the ones on the field making the mistakes, but the coach is always the one blamed. He is supposed to make sure that everyone knows what to do, and work as a team. Same here, the person highest in the chain of command should have made sure that within a certain amount of time this would be fixed. But hey, it's not like it's a Signature Arc, right? |
"You don't lose levels. You don't have equipment to wear out, repair, or lose, or that anyone can steal from you. About the only thing lighter than debt they could do is have an NPC walk by, point and laugh before you can go to the hospital or base." -Memphis_Bill
We will honor the past, and fight to the last, it will be a good way to die...
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And as stated, the resources working on the listed items have nothing do with the meaningless complaint.|
Originally Posted by DarkGob
It's not a critical bug by any means.
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They fixed lag hill on the ITF. They'll get there.
City of Heroes was my first MMO, & my favorite computer game.
R.I.P.
Chyll - Bydand - Violynce - Enyrgos - Rylle - Nephryte - Solyd - Fettyr - Hyposhock - Styrling - Beryllos - Rosyc
Horryd - Myriam - Dysquiet - Ghyr
Vanysh - Eldrytch
Inflyct - Mysron - Orphyn - Dysmay - Reapyr - - Wyldeman - Hydeous
Quote:
Meaningless complaint? Complaining about a room where u can't see the narrow pathway u have to walk to get to the 4 generators u have to destroy, isn't meaningless. |
Originally Posted by Chyll
And as stated, the resources working on the listed items have nothing do with the meaningless complaint.
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And about those resources working on other things, look at my Sports Coach comparison.
Just by ignoring something, and working on new items, it won't mean that the problem will go away, or that people will stop complaining.
As stated, this has been a problem for years.
Dark Energon, Founder of the Freedom Legion SG on Guardian server.
(SG founded on 12-08-'09, Top100: 08-17-'10, Top50: 12-23-'10, Top25: 12-11-'11)
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And as I stated, it's low priority. My team that ran it earlier didn't have any trouble getting to the generators.|
Originally Posted by Dark Energon
Meaningless complaint? Complaining about a room where u can't see the narrow pathway u have to walk to get to the 4 generators u have to destroy, isn't meaningless.
And about those resources working on other things, look at my Sports Coach comparison. Just by ignoring something, and working on new items, it won't mean that the problem will go away, or that people will stop complaining. As stated, this has been a problem for years. |
Areas of development that have nothing to do with bug fixes:
*New zone design
*New skins for existing maps
*New powerset design
*New system design
*Entirely new game paradigm design
Your sports metaphor (whatever point you were actually trying to make with it) doesn't apply and/or is inaccurate because the entire team doesn't focus on the same precise objective. Different members of the team have different roles to play. In soccer or hockey, the goalie isn't tasked with attempting to score goals with the rest of the team, nor is the front line tasked with protecting the goal.
"You don't lose levels. You don't have equipment to wear out, repair, or lose, or that anyone can steal from you. About the only thing lighter than debt they could do is have an NPC walk by, point and laugh before you can go to the hospital or base." -Memphis_Bill
We will honor the past, and fight to the last, it will be a good way to die...
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Yes, meaningless.|
Originally Posted by Dark Energon
Meaningless complaint?
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Is it mildly annoying?
Yes, but it has never stopped me from doing anything.
In the grand scheme of things, I'm happy to ignore it in favor of other things -assuming the resources that would go to this are working on something else, such as lag hill or other technical problems that have a far, far greater impact on game play.
City of Heroes was my first MMO, & my favorite computer game.
R.I.P.
Chyll - Bydand - Violynce - Enyrgos - Rylle - Nephryte - Solyd - Fettyr - Hyposhock - Styrling - Beryllos - Rosyc
Horryd - Myriam - Dysquiet - Ghyr
Vanysh - Eldrytch
Inflyct - Mysron - Orphyn - Dysmay - Reapyr - - Wyldeman - Hydeous
For an example of a long-standing bug that is more important than the disappearing geometry of the final room of the LGTF, how about the Mastermind pet zoning bug? It's existed since day 1 of the change to allow MM pets to zone with their masters, and almost completely defeats the purpose of that change. I guess those art guys and story guys are just too lazy to get around to fixing it. 
"You don't lose levels. You don't have equipment to wear out, repair, or lose, or that anyone can steal from you. About the only thing lighter than debt they could do is have an NPC walk by, point and laugh before you can go to the hospital or base." -Memphis_Bill
We will honor the past, and fight to the last, it will be a good way to die...
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I bug that almost every time I'm in there (that room is used for a few other missions, as well.) Exact SAME issue is in an instanced Shadow Shard map. |
Originally Posted by Dark Energon
Meaningless complaint? Complaining about a room where u can't see the narrow pathway u have to walk to get to the 4 generators u have to destroy, isn't meaningless.
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It is more than a cosmetic bug. It affects targeting - I *cannot target* whatever's behind the "wall of invisibility," even if they can shoot ME just fine. Obviously not through clicking, and not through tabbing. Doesn't matter about video card or brand, CPU, version of Windows... it's been ongoing.
And yes, I agree it *should* have been fixed by now.
As far as Darkgob:
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Areas of development that have nothing to do with bug fixes: *New zone design *New skins for existing maps *New powerset design *New system design *Entirely new game paradigm design |
We're going with trying to get new players in via COH Freedom. How are they going to react when (a) they see this bug - such as when they try to do Dark Watcher's last mission and invisible Nemesis are shooting them, or they see things disappearing as they go after the four glowies in the "Dont' fight patrols, get evidence" mission, and (b) they're told "Yeah. We know, it's been like that for years."
The bug itself is irritating to me. What's more irritating about it, though, is the slipshod impression it makes from not having been addressed for as long as it has existed. It didn't just happen. It's not an issue or two old. It predates Ultra Mode. I can't remember a time since the "Invasion" issue that it *didn't* happen. It's not something to be proud of or defend.
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The people who design how a map looks and its general layout have nothing to do with code. (Maybe issues that come up in coding require the design to be tweaked, but that's a separate matter.) That's the point I was making. The OP seems to think that Paragon Studios is a homogeneous environment where everybody can do everything. The people designing floor plans for new maps should just drop what they're doing and figure out why the last room of the LGTF doesn't quite render right. Not happening.|
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
I'll give you the last three as far as having no relation to this. But this *is* something in either the map design or graphics of some sort. They *do* have bugs of their own, and those bugs should not be left lingering for this long. We're not talking "Oh, the rikti armor highlights are red instead of green." This does affect gameplay.
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It absolutely should have been fixed by now, but let's not prop up newer content as the reason why it hasn't been fixed. That's a garbage argument, and a garbage excuse. Besides, I'd much rather see bug-fixing resources focused on more important bugs, like the aforementioned Mastermind zoning bug (and how did I manage to forget about the useless pet AI???). How's it going to look when a new player purchases Masterminds only to discover their functionality is crippled? That's what priorities are all about.
With any luck, Freedom will mean more revenue and thus more resources to fix this stuff.
"You don't lose levels. You don't have equipment to wear out, repair, or lose, or that anyone can steal from you. About the only thing lighter than debt they could do is have an NPC walk by, point and laugh before you can go to the hospital or base." -Memphis_Bill
We will honor the past, and fight to the last, it will be a good way to die...
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Kinda correct, even though it's a well know fact that most goalies in soccer will go upfront and try to score if the game is tied and their team has a last minute corner kick. It's also a know tactic to pull the goalie in Hockey so u have one extra scorer on the ice in the last few minutes of a tied game. Also, the forwards, esp in hockey, will help with defending, esp if they have a one goal lead, the other team has the ball and only a few minutes on the clock. Oh.. and with corner kicks in soccer, the team that is defending has all their people in the box to defend the goal, since almost all of the attacking team, incl defenders, are upfront and try to score.|
Originally Posted by DarkGob
In soccer or hockey, the goalie isn't tasked with attempting to score goals with the rest of the team, nor is the front line tasked with protecting the goal.
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Attackers would not play in a game if they didn't help out with the defense when needed.
Now look at this example:
If u have a crummy goalie, would u work on improving the offense or midfield strength of the team?
As someone mentioned. It's hard to try and target something invisible.
If they can give the warehouse maps a makeover, they could have done that with this specific room.
And that others rather see new content come out, and ignore the broken things, relate that back to when u were a kid.
Kid get's new toy, but toy is broken. So parents give kid more new toys so kid forgets about broken toy, but kid still wants to play with broken toy once in a while, and remembers that it's broken when he plays with it again.
Just because we get new stuff, doesn't mean it's ok to leave other stuff bugged.
Dark Energon, Founder of the Freedom Legion SG on Guardian server.
(SG founded on 12-08-'09, Top100: 08-17-'10, Top50: 12-23-'10, Top25: 12-11-'11)
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Funny how u think u know what i think. Let me worry about what i think, and i'll let u worry about what u think.|
Originally Posted by DarkGob
The OP seems to think that Paragon Studios is a homogeneous environment where everybody can do everything. The people designing floor plans for new maps should just drop what they're doing and figure out why the last room of the LGTF doesn't quite render right. Not happening.
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These are peoples opinions, and nobody's opinion is wrong.
If there is a team that designs floor maps/new maps, it's easy to pull one from that team and tell him to work on a fix.
It's been years now, why hasn't anyone stepped up and try to fix this?
It's not the fault of the team members, the people in charge are to blame for not placing someone on this.
And THAT, is what i think.
Dark Energon, Founder of the Freedom Legion SG on Guardian server.
(SG founded on 12-08-'09, Top100: 08-17-'10, Top50: 12-23-'10, Top25: 12-11-'11)
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Oh, for pity's sake. If you're going to stand there preaching a minimum standard of effort from the development team, at least have the courtesy to use complete words. It's spelled "you", and if you can be bothered to type words like "meaningless" and "complaining" in full, you can manage that too. It's a lot easier than developing new content or fixing a pathing flaw in a task force map.
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Originally Posted by Dark Energon
Meaningless complaint? Complaining about a room where u can't see the narrow pathway u have to walk to get to the 4 generators u have to destroy, isn't meaningless.
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At the Bay Area Meet & Greet last year, they were introducing some of the new staff. One of those was on the World team. They told us a brief story about shortly after he was hired. It went something like this:|
Originally Posted by Dark Energon
Funny how u think u know what i think. Let me worry about what i think, and i'll let u worry about what u think.
These are peoples opinions, and nobody's opinion is wrong. If there is a team that designs floor maps/new maps, it's easy to pull one from that team and tell him to work on a fix. It's been years now, why hasn't anyone stepped up and try to fix this? It's not the fault of the team members, the people in charge are to blame for not placing someone on this. And THAT, is what i think. |
After being hired he brought up several longstanding issues that still hadn't been resolved. He was told to go through the Bug list, find something he wanted to work on fixing and then come back to them when he had a plan. He selected an even older problem than the one you are talking about and went about trying to find a way to fix it. He came back to them very perplexed because he couldn't find any way to fix the issue without causing major problems in several other more important areas of the game. It had long been determined by the Dev team that this was a problem they'd not be able to fix without a major rewrite to multiple systems, and since it was a relatively minor problem in the big picture, it would just have to stay as it is.
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That being said, I tend to think that the problem in the LGTF may be similar. It may look easy to fix from the outside, but once you start digging into it and trying to find a fix for it you find that any fixes you try would break multiple other systems.
As for the MM zoning bug, I think much of it is that they can't reproduce the issue 100% of the time, and every fix they "think" they've found seems to work for a bit and then suddenly, with no other changes, it happens again.
Either that, or fixing it would require them to totally remove the code allowing the pets to zone. If that is what is happenening and since /releasepets is a known workaround, it's possible that a decision was made internally to leave it as is.
If the game spit out 20 dollar bills people would complain that they weren't sequentially numbered. If they were sequentially numbered people would complain that they weren't random enough.
Black Pebble is my new hero.
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Will people get angry if I ask, "What bug?" I've done the TF a couple of time and didn't notice any issues, what causes the problem? Just curious |
Originally Posted by Dark Energon
... That after all this new stuff, they still can't fix the last room in the Lady Grey Task Force?
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This is a song about a super hero named Tony. Its called Tony's theme.
Jagged Reged: 23/01/04
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All true... and when it happens I find that I can move my position to address the problem.|
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
It is more than a cosmetic bug. It affects targeting - I *cannot target* whatever's behind the "wall of invisibility," even if they can shoot ME just fine. Obviously not through clicking, and not through tabbing. Doesn't matter about video card or brand, CPU, version of Windows... it's been ongoing.
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Is it irritating? Yes.
Do your other points hold water about 'appearance' to players new and old? Yes.
Do I remain objective enough to recognize it probably is not a significant issue in the grand scheme of things? Also, unfortunately (or fortunately), yes.
City of Heroes was my first MMO, & my favorite computer game.
R.I.P.
Chyll - Bydand - Violynce - Enyrgos - Rylle - Nephryte - Solyd - Fettyr - Hyposhock - Styrling - Beryllos - Rosyc
Horryd - Myriam - Dysquiet - Ghyr
Vanysh - Eldrytch
Inflyct - Mysron - Orphyn - Dysmay - Reapyr - - Wyldeman - Hydeous
Hey I could bring up a bug that's been known about for years (ever since CoV launched and possibly even in beta).
Doing the Seer Marino arc, after you complete the 2nd mission, you call her to get the 3rd mission and the nav UI marker tells you it's outside of the building you're in. You go outside, and the UI marker says it's inside the building you came from.
UI marker has been messed like that for as long as the content has been out. The actual marker on the mini-map is fine though heh.
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Here's one of my characters. That purple puff? That's the blazing aura from another character. We're looking into the room where there should be the four pylons, two walkways, one large walkway and a portal. |
Originally Posted by Jagged
Will people get angry if I ask, "What bug?" I've done the TF a couple of time and didn't notice any issues, what causes the problem? Just curious
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Try and turn around in a good stretch of this map, and anything coming in from behind you is invisible. You can't see the corridor you came out of. (This isn't the best angle, admittedly - but you can see the wall of blackness behind.)
Here's one of the walkways as I'm walking down it. I've had the enemies, pylon and the rest of the walkway not appear until I'm almost off the 'platform.'
And there's a shadow shard instanced map that does much the same thing. Little hard to see at the size, but it's rather hard to target NPCs that vanish - and I've had NPCs who are already brain dead about following get lost because of it.
THAT's what I've been seeing for years, over multiple systems, AMD and nVidia cards, XP and Win7.
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Well you're posting on a public forum, so I think I deserve some right to think about what you think. But hey, that's just my opinion. |
Originally Posted by Dark Energon
Funny how u think u know what i think. Let me worry about what i think, and i'll let u worry about what u think.
These are peoples opinions, and nobody's opinion is wrong. |
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| the "I can't target on the last room of the LGTF!" argument that several people are throwing about (can't be bothered to quote a particular one; lazy, sorry) |
"You don't lose levels. You don't have equipment to wear out, repair, or lose, or that anyone can steal from you. About the only thing lighter than debt they could do is have an NPC walk by, point and laugh before you can go to the hospital or base." -Memphis_Bill
We will honor the past, and fight to the last, it will be a good way to die...
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Sure, but don't place words in my mouth. |
Originally Posted by DarkGob
Well you're posting on a public forum, so I think I deserve some right to think about what you think. But hey, that's just my opinion.
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I never talked about the size of their team, just the fact that after years, new issues, a new world, etc, etc, this issue still hasn't been fixed.
If it is indeed not to be fixed, there is a fix for that too: Start over.
Just delete the last mission. Replace it with a map that does work, and make the same objectives and such, problem solved.
Dark Energon, Founder of the Freedom Legion SG on Guardian server.
(SG founded on 12-08-'09, Top100: 08-17-'10, Top50: 12-23-'10, Top25: 12-11-'11)
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There are a lot of bugs that haven't been fixed. This one ranks quite a bit lower, IMHO of course. Which isn't to say it will never be fixed -- I've been reading that the infamous Lag Valley of the ITF has finally been resolved. That map had quite a few more performance issues than the last mission of the LGTF, but it was still fairly low priority because hey, it's not like people couldn't complete the ITF at all because of it (far from it).|
Originally Posted by Dark Energon
Sure, but don't place words in my mouth.
I never talked about the size of their team, just the fact that after years, new issues, a new world, etc, etc, this issue still hasn't been fixed. If it is indeed not to be fixed, there is a fix for that too: Start over. Just delete the last mission. Replace it with a map that does work, and make the same objectives and such, problem solved. |
I honestly don't see them tearing down an entire problem and building from scratch when the problem is low priority to begin with. And it is low priority. I've already listed one bug that is (or damn well ought to be) higher priority. Over on the Beta Forums there's a thread about "trap purchases" and I think Masterminds are going to be a big trap purchase that a lot of free players will be rightfully pissed about when they discover they've purchased a lemon archetype.
And I still do not buy your argument from your OP that development of any other kind is inexcusable when there's a long-standing but ultimately minor bug on a single map that is used once (oh, I guess the same thing happens on some Shadow Shard maps, but don't try to tell me that sees a lot of action).
"You don't lose levels. You don't have equipment to wear out, repair, or lose, or that anyone can steal from you. About the only thing lighter than debt they could do is have an NPC walk by, point and laugh before you can go to the hospital or base." -Memphis_Bill
We will honor the past, and fight to the last, it will be a good way to die...
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Yes, the MM pets should be fixed asap, i totally agree with that.|
Originally Posted by DarkGob
I've already listed one bug that is (or damn well ought to be) higher priority. Over on the Beta Forums there's a thread about "trap purchases" and I think Masterminds are going to be a big trap purchase that a lot of free players will be rightfully pissed about when they discover they've purchased a lemon archetype.
And I still do not buy your argument from your OP that development of any other kind is inexcusable when there's a long-standing but ultimately minor bug on a single map that is used once (oh, I guess the same thing happens on some Shadow Shard maps, but don't try to tell me that sees a lot of action). |
Even walking in a base that has lowered and raised sections will stop the pets from following. And MM's will be locked away behind a 'Pay to Play' option.
I never said it's "inexcusable" that this isn't fixed.
I just listed the things they did in the time i have been playing, yet that there are still bugs that affect game play, and notably this one thanks to the WST, in the game.
I just find it weird that this has never been tackled by anyone of the team.
Dark Energon, Founder of the Freedom Legion SG on Guardian server.
(SG founded on 12-08-'09, Top100: 08-17-'10, Top50: 12-23-'10, Top25: 12-11-'11)
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... They created a new world named Praetoria.
... That they are making a new zone for that new world.
... That they have given the warehouse maps a makeover.
... That they are giving Atlas Park a makeover.
... That they are destroying Galaxy City.
... That they made a new tutorial.
... That they came out with new Booster Packs
... That they invented new power sets.
... That they invented the Alignment System.
... That they invented new end game content.
... That they are revamping the Veteran Reward Sytem
... That they are creating their own marketplace.
... That after all this new stuff, they still can't fix the last room in the Lady Grey Task Force?
Somewhere i hear Homer Simpson go: "D'oh!" */e Facepalm*
Dark Energon, Founder of the Freedom Legion SG on Guardian server.
(SG founded on 12-08-'09, Top100: 08-17-'10, Top50: 12-23-'10, Top25: 12-11-'11)
Crab Spider Nephila on Titan Tracker
Weekly events on Guardian: W.A.V.E. & FNFN