What does "Assassin's Strike" mean to you?

After seeing the proposed Assassin's Strike animation for Street Justice on the Beta server, something occurred to me - I have a very different vision of what an "Assassin's Strike" should constitute than the development team. In fact, I'd go as far as to say I don't think the developers have a very clear vision of what an Assassin's Strike even is, because for a lot of the existing Stalker powersets, their Assassin's Strikes feel like an afterthought, just something that can be stretched into four seconds and we'll roll with it. Sure, Katana's and Broadsword's are pretty unique, but the rest? Super Squat of Doom?

But let's be constructive here: What do YOU believe an Assassin's Strike should represent? The way I see it, there are two major conceptual designs for an Assassin's Strike:

1. Attack vitals: In this interpretation, an Assassin's Strike is an attack which targets a very vital point on your enemy which is usually well defended when the enemy is aware of your presence, but is very vulnerable when the enemy is unaware. The Katana, Broadsword and Dual Blades stabs very much look the part for this.

2. Super blindside: In this interpretation, an Assassin's Strike is simply a very, very powerful attack which is, unfortunately, very difficulty to connect with if your enemy is aware. The enemy could dodge it or block it for only partial damage, or your enemy can just interrupt you while you're setting up for it. However, if said enemy is unaware, you can take your time, set up for your attack and hit him like a ton of bricks. Assassin's Shock is a pretty good example of this, as it's just one giant electric shock. If Stalkers ever get axes, the slasher villain trademark of holding the axe up in camera close-up before embedding it into the head of his hapless spying on that cute blond changing would fall in the same category.

I ask this, because it feels to me like a lot of those Assassin's Strikes that we have are somewhat misappropriated. Martial Arts' one, for instance, can go either way, either a deadly hit against a pressure point or some kind of awesome windup telegraphed roundhouse kick depending on whether we want to imagine it as a precise vital strike or a blunt super blindside. The MMA-style Street Justice, as well, could benefit from something a lot more visceral and painful-looking than what looks like a reuse of the Cobra Strike uppercut. Basically, a lot of sets could benefit from better Assassin's Strike animations, probably as custom options, if we can just come up with a good, solid idea of what this power should represent.

So, what does "Assassin's Strike" mean to you?

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Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

You actually brought something up I had been thinking of for a long time Sam, and while I believe that mechanics of the animations and also the powers present pose part of the issue, but to answer your question.

I truly believe that an assassins strike is both a finishing move and an opener, which either finishes an opponent by bypassing strengths, armor, resistances because it is lethal beyond the point of a normal attack, which would bring both the element of surprise and an assault on the enemies vitals.

However in modern warfare I think of such strikes at range, but considdering this is designed for an AT which feels much like a DnD rogue, who attacks in melee from stealth or generally close range, I feel like the element of surprise and exposeing an enemy weakness from observation is lost because a good assassin picks a mark which is safe to kill because they have the cold calculated time to pull it off. Sadly, that will not be the case in CoX due to mobs size.

My issue with the current look is that the buildup to the assassins strike (The Squat of Doom) is not giving me the feeling of being an assassin, nor does it feel a good example of what either "surprise" or attacking "vitals" feels like to me, and I think it's because many of the sets are old, and lend themselves very poorly.

Snipes in the game feel like snipes, and the original animation makes it feel like a snipe, and it's epic as just that, and truly feels more acceptable as an assassins weapon than some of the stalker options. It's aimed, it's concentrated on, and because of the range element it allows for hit and run options, which makes it feel like an assassins strike.

I hope that sort of gives my feelings on it.

*applaudes* hear hear!

This is the reason why I've shied away from certain primaries for it and just gravitated towards NB/ or BS/ or ElM/, because you're going to be watching this animation thousands of times if you keep it. I'm not a fan of it, it looks like Assassin's stomach cramps. "Oh god my tummy hurts, POW!"

KM/ was a step in the right direction, even if they can give EnM/ that for an option it could work. The other's could use some change though for sure, but my brain just got up.

The Squat of Doom is actually somewhat appropriate for Dark Melee. You're not actually hitting them physically, you're hitting them with concentrated Negative Energy.

The animation is still kind of silly, but at least in that case it's not entirely inappropriate.

That's kind of why I brought the topic up, Nyx - I'm not sure all Assassin's Strikes should even attempt to be about hitting a vulnerable spot. I actually do strongly feel that at least some of these should simply try to be incredibly powerful direct attacks that are simply easy to block if you don't get the drop on your enemy. I feel the same about Snipes, but that's besides the point.

To bring up a questionable illustration, let's look at something like Dragon Ball Z. In there, you have attacks like Piccolo's Devil Cannon, which can typically take out pretty much any character, even the overpowered ones, but re so slow to both charge up and fire that they're impractical to use in actual combat. Even more basic attacks like giant fireballs can usually be deflected, or even reflected back at the caster if the target is aware of what you're doing. For a lot of these attacks to have any effect, the target has to be either looking the other way and possibly fighting someone else, or otherwise being pinned down and defenceless.

Of course, this isn't about me and, of course, I'm sure that there's room for both precision attacks and direct attacks. I'm not sure what would work for Dark. Cards on the table - I've never actually played a Dark Melee Stalker Personally, though, I'd have assumed it would be something to do with the dark tentacles. Say, something like summoning about a dozen tentacles all around you and then having them all stab your target at the same time. Either that, or just sort of summoning a large cloud of darkness and "injecting" it all in the target at the same time. This is when attacking vital parts comes off wonky for me, since... Well, it's darkness To this day I'm still not sure how darkness hurts us, other than just that its presence is damaging and debilitating and in no way physical.

You know what the funky part is, though? The Street Justice uppercut is neither precise nor very powerful, which is why it finally broke my suspension of disbelief and made me ask this question. When I fire off an Assassin's Strike... What am I supposed to be seeing?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

Actually...yes. Thats why when I suggested the concept of what an assassin strike should be, I used the concept of the snipe. It's secretive and powerfull and effective at range.

However I did give some other examples of what an assassins strike could be. However mechanics get in the way of them having to be fired off from stealth.

When I pictured Martial Arts, I picture the Serpent Fist style. A craning serpent like reared headed attack with pointy fingers. Something a bearded, ancient master would use to paralyze the vitals. That would be one concept, and would focus on a vital weak point.

However Claws are savage. Im pictureing less finesse and straight for the throat. Ripping, tearing, and a savage, uncalculated assault which overcomes the enemy with violence rather than using the tactic of a focused strike. Surprise mainly, but almost cat like. Stalking, and then Brutal!!!

Dark, is tricky because it's not tangeable and it's supposed to have a dark feel, but I almost feel like it is the one exception to the rule, as Claws and Effect put it.

I want energy to be the same. I almost feel like the Energy should be less about a tactical strike, and more about grabbing the enemy and flooding them with energy, overloading them.

Electric feels less assassin and similar to energy.

the rest that use an object/weapon to kill the enemy should Impail, Slice, Strike a deadly blow depending on the weapon. Kitana should be slow and exact. Dual Blades could remain the same. The Blades pointed at the enemy feel like a death strike. That being said, I feel the weapon style animation are acceptable in most cases.

It means I just had to pop Build-Up and wait four more seconds to drop an EB's health by at least half. If we shorten that wait time I might think everyone might take Stalkers a little more seriously.

If we're talking animations, I have a NB and an ElM and I often team with a DB, so I haven't really seen much yet in the way of animations that make me go 'really?'

Its not something Imperfect Lotus regularly uses.

I agree wholeheartedly with you, Sam.
Either Precise and Subtle or big and stupid are the way to go.

I was expecting the Street Justice AS to be either the fabled "knee to the groin" or some sort of massive elbow to the solar plexus, or even punching the poor guy in the throat with your knuckles extended.

I was disappointed.

I'm totally blanking on the name of the power, so bear with me- the Shield power where you teleport into a mob and cause damage and knockback? I'd also love a version of Assassin's Strike similar to that. You move quicker than the eye can see (teleport), attack your target, and BAM you're out of there again. Theoretically, you could take out an entire mob without them ever seeing you using this method. It'd take a bit with the recharge, but I still think it's a very cool idea concept-wise.

I was kind of hoping for a Fist of the North Star 'Hundred Crack Fist' type of attack with Martial Arts' Assassin Strike.

It means that the rest of the team can attack now because the Stalker has done their work.

What Assassin Strike means to me?

1. You can't miss! I don't know how many times it messes up my survival if I miss BU + AS. I wasted 4s doing nothing. If a target can't see me, it shouldn't miss. Yes, I know even Blaster's Aim + BU can miss but the targets can see you after the first hit.


2. You gotta hit Fast and Hard. The current AS has pretty long interruption time, activation time and the damage does not scale up high enough at high level content. In fact, if you do Placate + AS during your normal attack chain, you actually lower your dps.


3. In other games I've played, Assassin Strike usually delivers BOTH very heavy damage please very nasty Debuff. The debuff includes like target can't heal himself or heal much less, debuff on running speed so the target can't run away from you. Or Assassin Strike hits so hard that you are stun-locked for a while.


4. As far as animation goes, only Weapon-based sets look what I imagine (Ninja Blade, Dual Blade and Claw for example).


I really wish each Assassin Strike provides different effects but that will be too hard to balance.

I should point something out since I forgot to mention it initially - I'm not really looking to pick apart set or power balance. The numbers game is, for the most part, its own thing and not entirely relevant here beyond some general concepts: Assassin's Strikes are slow, deliberate attacks which can only deliver their full damage if your enemy is unaware, the result of hitting an unaware enemy with one is amazing while the result of hitting an alert enemy with one is slightly above average. I have my own ideas as to what I want to happen to Assassin's Strikes in terms of balance, but again - before we try to determine where the numbers should go, we need to figure out what we want the numbers to represent.

Also, just because I broke Assassin's Strikes down into either "attack vitals" or "super blindside," it doesn't mean that those are the only two categories Assassin's Strikes can fall into, or indeed that they are a perfect representation. In fact, what these two categories represent is what I think the game is trying to emulate vs. what I wish it would try to emulate. I've had a similar discussion before about why I hate Sniper Blast as a "beam bullet" and feel it should be a big giant blue fireball vs. people not feeling that a big giant fireball is appropriate for a power which is supposed to hit a vital spot with precision.

What I CAN say for certain, however, is that the game would benefit from having different Assassin's Strikes cover different themes. Look at Masterminds, for instance - not a single AT in the game is more formulaic than these are - Blast, Summon, Blast, Upgrade, Blast, Summon, Wildcard, Summon, Upgrade, for every single Mastermind primary that ever was. And yet they still manage to be wildly different, both because of the henchemn's powers, but also because each set has its own unique Wildcard. Some heal, some buff, some have additional summons and so on, but each set has that one power which is unique unto itself and representing a completely different concept.

This is what I envision for Assassin's Strike. Some would attack vitals, others would just be big windup attacks, others still might focus on staggerring foes and so on. The question is what we want to envision them as, because if we know that, only then can we really campaign for a change. We need to know what we want changed and what we want it changed into, right?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

To me "Assassin's Strike" means your Archetype is held hostage to a mechanic that just doesn't work in today's game.

WARNING: I bold names.

To me, "Assassin's Strike" means that Assassins are tired of low wages and poor working conditions and are refusing to go back to work until a new contract is negotiated.

For darkies' AS: You summon a vortex of negative energy around yourself, forcibly inject all that energy into your taget, then tear the soul from their body.

ok, short, to the point answer, i see them as a precision strike. my stalkers are a db(yes, i am a glutton for punishment) and a claws user, so thematically, both of their strikes seem to be jabbing the most vulnerable bits in a manner that they would have defended against if they saw you.

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