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Yeah, a laser gun is basically just a flashlight... that can punch through bodies. The smell of melting metal and plastic and whiff of burning flesh, yes. Recoil, no.
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Originally Posted by Lothic
Yeah that's my only real nitpick from what I saw. Beam weapons shouldn't have any noticeable recoil. In fact that's supposedly (theoretically?) one of their main advantages over standard gunpowder-type weapons. It seems like they just left in some recoil animation from previous gun models. Hope they end up cleaning it up a bit before launch.
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The Alt Alphabet ~ OPC: Other People's Characters ~ Terrific Screenshots of Cool ~ Superhero Fiction
I'm gonna run counter to some and say that I like the recoil on the Beam Rifle. Sure it may not be realistic. But it's cool.
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If you can rationalize how you can move the end of what's effectively a high-powered "flashlight" (according to Ironik) around and have the beam stay glued to a single point then your ability to suspend disbelief far surpasses mine. |
Originally Posted by Lazarillo
I'm gonna run counter to some and say that I like the recoil on the Beam Rifle. Sure it may not be realistic. But it's cool.
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I don't mind the recoil. I mind that it makes the beam shoot out of the side of the gun.
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Originally Posted by Lazarillo
I'm gonna run counter to some and say that I like the recoil on the Beam Rifle. Sure it may not be realistic. But it's cool.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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The Ghost Buster weapons had recoil as I recall.
I don't suppose a wand is an option... no, didn't think so.
It not a "Laser Rifle", it's a "Beam Rifle". All lasers are beams, but not all beams are lasers.
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But how many beams recoil? As far as I know, recoil is a result of the chemical reaction from gunpowder.
In the pen n' paper RPGs, I've read numerous "explanations" for beam weapon recoil for those games that included it. Lasers would have no recoil whatsoever, but if you're talking about something that shoots a quanta of energy that has mass, then maybe you'd have some. Or hell, you could just make it a side effect of the weapon heating up or whatever.
Long story short, beam weapons have recoil because recoil LOOKS COOL. 
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If the energy being shot has mass (such as ions), there will be recoil. |
Originally Posted by Scythus
But how many beams recoil? As far as I know, recoil is a result of the chemical reaction from gunpowder.
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Newtons Third Law in action.
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Nope. It's a reaction to the ejection of mass (i.e. the bullet and combustion waste gases) from the muzzle of the gun, in accordance with Newton's Third Law of Motion. It has nothing to do with the combustion of the gunpowder, except insofar as that's what produces the gas and propels the bullet. If it were something else doing the propelling - electromagnets, say, or compressed air - there would still be recoil. So-called "recoilless" weapons compensate for their recoil by directing the waste gases in the opposite direction, but physically speaking it's still there.|
Originally Posted by Scythus
But how many beams recoil? As far as I know, recoil is a result of the chemical reaction from gunpowder.
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(This is also why e.g. firehoses and compressed air lines have recoil, sometimes quite a lot of recoil. Water, in particular, is quite dense and firehoses generally have a high flow rate, so the Newtonian forces involved can be considerable.)
The reason lasers don't have recoil is because photons, which are all that come out of lasers, don't have mass (in the classical sense). So theoretically, a directed energy weapon using something other than pure light, such as gas plasma, would. The quantity of mass involved in such a weapon's discharge would presumably be very small, but moving at an extremely high velocity, so the recoil could be perceptible, though I'm not about to go and do the math required to confirm or deny that.
Basically, though, the behavior exhibited by the Beam Rifle powers has nothing to do with science and everything to do with the fact that a whole generation of sci-fi art directors were raised on Ghostbusters, whose weapons' behavior was modeled on that of - coincidentally enough - firehoses. Proton accelerators don't really make cool twisty beams that can rip a hole in spacetime if they're crossed, but what they do really do isn't anywhere near as interesting-looking.
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Originally Posted by Mental_Giant
It not a "Laser Rifle", it's a "Beam Rifle". All lasers are beams, but not all beams are lasers.
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Originally Posted by Scythus
But how many beams recoil? As far as I know, recoil is a result of the chemical reaction from gunpowder.
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Actually, that's a weapon I can get behind: two-by-four gun!
I've even got the character name: Wotsa Tuba For?
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OK, we totally need a War Mace skin that's a three-foot length of I-beam, slightly twisted at both ends, now.
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Originally Posted by Ironik
A 2x4 is a beam. That would cause recoil.
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A photon drive would. That requires somewhat more power than you'd see in a hand weapon though...
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Originally Posted by Scythus
But how many beams recoil?
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OK, I'm man enough to admit it - I laughed at that one. Thank you |
Originally Posted by Ironik
A 2x4 is a beam. That would cause recoil.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Time manipulation to me is more impressive than Beam Rifle or Street Justice.
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
OK, I'm man enough to admit it - I laughed at that one. Thank you
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Given that they can create "recoiless rifles" with today's technology I would think the ability to create a recoiless futuristic weapon based on any kind of "beam" you want would be almost trivial and fundamental by comparison. In fact if anyone had to suffer a real life hand-helded beam weapon that recoiled I'd think that would be a pointless failure of design. Might as well use a M-16 if that were the case - it'd probably cost a 100x less to boot. |
Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
Nope. It's a reaction to the ejection of mass (i.e. the bullet and combustion waste gases) from the muzzle of the gun, in accordance with Newton's Third Law of Motion. It has nothing to do with the combustion of the gunpowder, except insofar as that's what produces the gas and propels the bullet. If it were something else doing the propelling - electromagnets, say, or compressed air - there would still be recoil. So-called "recoilless" weapons compensate for their recoil by directing the waste gases in the opposite direction, but physically speaking it's still there.
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True, but the extent of that recoil is going to be based on the mass and speed of the item (and any recoil-reducing elements inside the device).|
Originally Posted by Shakesphere
If the energy being shot has mass (such as ions), there will be recoil.
Newtons Third Law in action. |
Of course, it also doesn't have to caused by the projectile. A laser that superheated the air immediately in front of the muzzle when fired would cause a very rapid expansion of the air which will cause a push-back that could theoretically feel similar to a relatively light-recoil weapon.
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You do realize a "recoiless rifle" is almost nothing like a conventional rifle and is more akin to a rocket launcher, yes?
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Originally Posted by Lothic
Given that they can create "recoiless rifles"
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The principle behind modern military recoilless rifles isn't really applicable to energy weapons. Those haven't got exhaust gases to work with. And it's a pretty flawed premise for an infantry weapon anyway, since they're lethal at both ends - not ideal. |
Originally Posted by Lothic
Given that they can create "recoiless rifles" with today's technology I would think the ability to create a recoiless futuristic weapon based on any kind of "beam" you want would be almost trivial and fundamental by comparison.
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I suppose it's possible that the Beam rifle has recoil because it was designed to emulate the feel of a regular projectile rifle. So that the shooter could go back and forth between weapon types without relearning how they feel to fire.
The reason Beam Rifle recoils is much simpler - it's because it uses the same animations as Assault Rifle to save on the art team's time. Trying to figure out reasons why it should recoil strikes me as akin to trying to explain why the space ships in the Wing Commander movie drop "down" when they leave the end of the flight deck on takeoff. In space. Or why the Kilwrathi space fighters are so noisy. In space.
I don't mean to mock attempts at an explanation, honest! But it just seems to me like we're trying to excuse what should in my mind be a clear case of inappropriate visuals, something for the developers to fix, not for us to explain away. Not unless we want to explain why the beam can shoot out sideways of our Beam Rifle barrel.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=luxLH_LKdlk
Power customization could render it closer to what you're looking for.
Wish they'd get rid of the recoil part of the animation. Looks silly for the beam to react the way it does with the recoil effect, besides that, energy weapons don't have recoil.
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