Alignment QOL and Equalization.

Unless your are speaking for the devs or you are aware of the actual design docs, you don't know that is how its SUPPOSED to work. If you do and have that knowledge, then I clearly don't get it and you have surely corrected my misunderstanding of the system. I will post no more and leave my idea out there to continue to be ripped to shreds for breaking the system.

Maybe what I've been discussing can be considered a work around and that is not supposed to happen. Then I would suggest they fix this. Fill the hole and correct this ability to somehow do other people's alignment missions if you've already done your 5 or its not your desired alignment. Now that would make teaming really fun. I can't play with you guys, I've already done my 5 alignment missions, see you when your done. Do you want that as a penalty? That would definitely fill this glaring hole that I seem to keep wanting to make even more unbalanced,but you are happy with it working as intended. You seem very intent on the system imposing penalties.

And for some reason you don't have a problem with the ability to decide not to change alignments after you've done the Morality Mission. Why would they let you do that? Based on your understanding the system is supposed to make you accept whatever alignment you've worked so hard to do. This is no different than your other arguments saying its working as intended and imposes some penalty.

Signed: Still not getting it.

You don't want to listen to the answer so why go through it again.

Actually the truth of the matter is that you are the one that doesn't want to listen.

What was that?

Still /unsigned.

If what you want isn't about the rewards, then you doing hero tips instead of your hero tips is fine.

Yes, you get the choice to stay your alignment or not if you go a certain way on a morality mission, but that's not the big deal. Why? Because if you don't change or stay the same, you're not getting anything for it.

In fact, you get no reward at all if you stay your current alignment, because the reward was you changing alignment in the first place, which you turned down.

The system is fine. And part of the choice is you teaming with your friends or not.

Not to mention if you have multiple alts, pick a different one that will want to do the hero arcs your friends want to do if it seems like such a problem to you.

I agree with you I really do. I'm going to continue to play the game and enjoy it. It will be a minor irritation I will work around. But since I felt it could be better or more fair, by my own perspective, I spoke up. You are absolutely right though. This is why teaming with my friends and having fun pretty much locks me out of my merit rewards. I'd rather run tip missions with them and lose out on rewards and have fun than go grind my tip missions solo/search for other vigs to grind with. That's my choice. I just don't feel I should have to choose that is all and see ways to thematically not have to while still giving me a tradeoff as intended.

It's also why I'm ending my participation in this arguement. We've covered everything thoroughly. It's not worth more of my time fighting for, my view has been put out there. I'll be playing instead of arguing. I'll also not be belittling others on an online forums, I don't care how big/small my Epeen is. I don't care how "right/wrong" I am on matters of opinion lol. It's opinion for a reason. It's not something that should cause you to insult other people just because the view things differently, but that's something many forget. (not aimed at you mega)

Heroes and Villains got a new type of reward. Rogues and Vigilantes got the ability to go anywhere in the game and team with anyone regardless of their alignment.

Rogues and Vigilantes also get 60 merits every time they reaffirm their alignment, which is more than you can get for any other soloable task in the game.

Now, I DO think there should be Rogue and Vigilante specific contacts in Paragon and the Rogue Isles. It is perfectly plausible that there would be people in both locations who would be seeking their services.

I still don't agree that we need the ability to ignore the effect of Tip missions on your reputation. If you want to team with your friends without impeding your progress, either get your tips out of the way first, or simply play a different character to run those missions. You DO have more than one character you could log in with, right?

Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately.

No one has to choose. It's called picking a different toon. Look at that, you got the A Merit reward you're wanting so much and teaming with your friends! You can alt back to the other character after the 5 tips are done! \o/


Only one interfering with your teaming is you. In my SG (that's about 40active players) I see this all the time "Running [insert alignment here] Tips" "Oh hold on! Let me alt!" Now most of them run Hero tips for sure. But this being said in the global channel, we get people running villain tips to. It's called alting.


Rogues/Vigilantes get 60 Reward Merits, and the ability to run both sides of the fence. What exactly isn't the reward in that?

If you're saying you can't use Reward Merits, please let me know. I'll give you a list of needed set recipes, and you can buy them for me with all those unused reward merits.

When the truth is, most people prefere to play the hero, have no desire to go redside, and can grab a nice IO recipe every 2-4 days. This obviously includes your friends who don't seem to be willing to run vigilante tips with you.

You're problem isn't equal rewards, your problem is more people play blue side and have no desire to play redside.


Also a chance for you to make new friends who want to run vigilante tips


Your way makes the whole alignment mechanic worthless. You want to turn it into, "do tip missions, get a reward" and not "do the right tip missions for your alignment and get a reward."

So if they did that, why even bother keeping alignments or the rewards?

This isn't exactly true.

Since 1 A merit can be turned into 5 Random Rolls it would be equivalent to 100 Reward Merits.

This.

Also, you can't buy PVPs/Purples with normal reward merits.

^ Agreed. Vigilante tips in the Rogue Isles and Rogue tips in Paragon, kthanxbai

Originally Posted by Zwillinger GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.

Originally Posted by Captain_Photon NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

Well if you wanted to get technical about it you could consider it 1 bump. Though to be honest people bump their stuff all the time, all such a ruling does is make you "need" to argue to bump.

Nevertheless I wasn't seriously going to pursue this or anything. Just a light joke for those that participated in the thread. Ironically your response is helping keep it alive though. Also, thread is outdated anyhow, OP no longer accurately reflects my opinion . Remember I dropped the rewards thing.

Regardless, you taking it too seriously means I wasn't clear enough in my humor. Back to the game for me hehe.

If there are any worries about the thread I'd actually recommend locking it myself, If I wish to return to the subject I can make a new thread that more accurately reflects my current views. Important difference since most people don't read beyond the first page.

Once again you are wrong. Stating that I'll be amused should you choose to bump your thread to the point the mods notice it and take action doesn't mean you are being taken seriously.

What's actually happening is nothing more than you see when a crowd gathers to see if someone will jump off a building, watch a fire, or when they grab a video camera to tape a tragedy instead of helping.

Ok then lets try something new, I don't respond and you don't respond and the thread dies . If i respond it's your responsibility not to and vice versa, instead of your current life giving mantra. Otherwise the thread would only die upon a lock.

You can continue to be negative, I don't have to join in and try to contribute "squirrely wrath". (Foamy reference btw )

Although, to be fair, so have you.

And SO HAVE I OH NOOOOOOOO

I know there are more Hero Tip teams than Vigilante Tip teams, but that does not mean you have no choice but to run your tips solo. When I can't find a Vigilante Tip team for my Vigilante, I start one. I have NEVER failed to find enough people to create a full team when I broadcast that I am starting a Vigilante tip team.

As for getting Vigilante credit (even half credit) for doing Hero Tips with a team, why? If you are doing Hero Tips, alone or with a team, you are getting Hero Alignment. Just as they get Vigilante Alignment for running yours. As for them being, basically the same, why then, as a Hero Morality mission are you specifically trying to arrest Doc Quantum (a VIGILANTE, not a VILLAIN). Why are there MULTIPLE Hero Alignment missions that have you going after Longbow officers who have turned Vigilante? Truth of the matter is, the pure heroes don't view Vigilantes much better than they do Villains. Truth be known, they probably think slightly better of Rogues who are least, in their eyes, trying to move in the right direction.

Originally Posted by Frosty_Femme I said "ur" which is not a word. It's a sound dumb people make when you ask them to spell out "you are".

True but you and I don't get upset and defensive when people disagree with us or explain how something works, or give us the explanations provided by the devs.

That'd be some nice flavour and I think would make for some good fun to go with the alignments. It is always more fun to have mixed groups and the clashes they cause, than to run around with only people of the same mind!
(All thematically, role-played, game dialog/action flavour-wise).
I'm not saying there IS any problem, but it's not like things couldn't be better!
I like that.

I also like this stuff and agree that it could be cooler if everyone could go everywhere.
I understand why the system is the way it is and I am okay with it and all that.
However, I'm not convinced that something like the above wouldn't be more fun.
Although, some of examples of NPCs attacking or not attacking may be a bit off... the general idea is one I'd get behind, for sure.
I'd love to see the yellow target NPC stuff we have in Praetoria and I do believe it could be fit into Paragon and the Isles.

I think villain NPCs could still attack villain players and that Longbow shouldn't outright attack vigilantes... But, other than that, I like those ideas.


I will say this Soul_System...
If you make the choice for thematic reasons and stick with it for thematic reasons (great reasons, in my opinion, so don't read this the wrong way!), then you shouldn't really take issue with the thematic consequences.
Also... maybe you shouldn't be doing so much stuff that goes against your thematic decisions. I only say that to possibly give you a happier outlook on it. Not to try and show you up or prove you wrong.
Really, if you don't like the result of being a vigilante (you don't seem to find the zone access to be a benefit and you seem to be running hero tips regularly), you should probably keep the hero alignment. It's only there to make you happier about things, so pick that end of it and work around the unimportant symbol next to your health bar.

Thems some of my thoughts!

The Electric-Knight ______ Malfaz _____ Zox'Oculox

@Zethustra

"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan

www.pauldamonthomas.com - Original Music

Been there done that, still doing that. Reason I ever brought it up is because I get hero tips done but not vig tips. To get my tips done is to ask everyone else to go out of their way. Long story short is vig tips get done mainly solo if at all. I keep an eye out for global calls for vig tips, but so far I've seen it called out a total of once since this thread started. The number of hero tips I've run with people is...quite alot.

Maybe this isn't an issue if you play on Freedom, but I play on Guardian. Same server I've been on since I came here 63 months ago lol. (consolidated my villains from pinnacle to guardian)



I also didn't ignore the effects of tips on my reputation. I came up with a way that fits in the current system and is thematically appropriate as to why you could gain vigilante rep on a hero mission. Not to mention that this thematic sense was drawn directly from both COH and comic book lore. Just because the mission is heroic doesn't mean everyone doing it is acting heroic.

If I took that kind of thought process though I'd play half the powersets I do :P. Why play X when Y is better? Because it fits the theme, it feels better, it looks better, etc. I'm not a min/maxer. Only reason I even complained is because it became commonplace for people to run hero missions and the rewards for doing so are exclusionary and divide the population. That in itself makes me scratch my head after they have done so very much to join the population via betraying, sking/mentoring improvements, and other things.

I have fun and I like being vigilante because my robots are cruelly logical, not soft and fuzzy tenderhearted boy scouts on a mission to promote peace, love, and babies. Making them make those heroic choices would fry their circuits. You might as well tell me to change my stories on my characters or you'll impede me in some way . Before GR these things were not possible and that's ok. You work with the framework you got. Current state imo there is no reason to segregate teaming for what amounts to "daylies" reward wise.

That's pretty presumptuous to say exactly how all/most heros feel. It also disagrees with alot of comic book lore. Even COH lore jousts with this in the relationship of Statesman and Manticore. Manticore btw is most certainly vigilante. He's killed, betrayed his friends to play double agent, and more or less shown to take dramatic risks if the payoff seems worth it. Risks a hero wouldn't take and statesman had a real issue with him killing Protean.

Look at the entire GR expansion. They said shades of grey and they meant it. Stop trying to paint everything as black and white. Hero's run the range from shining boyscout to passionate zealot who's 1 step away from vigilantism. Vigilante's run the range from shining upholder of justice through questionable methods to commonly questioned if they are doing it for themselves, vengeance, or blood lust. Apply the same thought process to Rogues and Villains. It's even possible for a villain to have certain scruples and do the right thing in a situation where a supposed hero falls to his own flaws and doesn't do the right thing. Does making a mistake mean they are a vigilante even though it goes against what they believe in? Does that single act of good mean that Villain is a hero? NO, alignment is about the long run. You can have soft spots, you can make mistakes or have flaws, but overall your going to take a reliable path. That path is your track record and what determines your alignment.

So, do you still think you can cut and dry label all alignments and exactly why they do their missions?




As a side point your mission points are moot. Pretty much everything we have to do to become a vigilante is something your arresting people for as a hero. Yet Vigilante's are allowed and teamable blue side. It already contradicts otherwise hero's would be arresting vigilante's on sight. The fact that they don't, even though they are in the morality missions, says 1 of 2 things. Either it's contradictory OR they allows vigilante's to run free intentionally and only make a show of arresting some of them. After all, my vigilantes have sacrificed numerous people and heroes, blown up innocents for the greater good, etc. Heck we even let rogue's over. They are known to have done all sorts of things including blackmail, kidnapping, bombing, innocents hurt, robbing banks, etc.

In fact Manticore actually blackmails you in 1 alignment mission to make you do his bidding. This shows that either he's not so hero-type or that the big guys really do know where you stand and let you run around anyways.