Alignment QOL and Equalization.

Ummm, NO.

Again, that completely undermines the POINT of the alignment system. The point of it being: Your actions have consequences.

You're suggesting we be able to log in on a Hero and run a bunch of Vigilante missions (which include things like letting people die, helping people blow up buildings, and outright murder in a couple cases) and then just saying "Oh, don't pay any attention to all the bad things I've done lately, I'm still a GOOD GUY and should get the rewards associated with being one."

A real life equivalent to that would be going out and deliberately crashing into someone with your car because they were speeding, and then having the cop ask you if you WANT that to be reflected on your driving record.

The more I read of this thread, the more I see people basically wanting to be able to do whatever the hell they want and get the rewards they want instead of what the rewards actually are.

What's next, letting us choose whether that recipe that dropped is a temp power or a Purple?

Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately.

Umm..thanks for reading my whole post. You obviously didn't see the example I illustrated about opting out of morality choice at the end of the mission.

I think you need to petition the Devs to stop allowing you to make a decision at the end of the Morality mission. I can be a vigilante doing hero missions, run the morality mission for just the xp and at the end...stay a vigilante.

Since this is already in the game, you can give all the real world explanations as you have, but its already there. So for the sake of consistency then, morality missions should force you to the alignment you just ran. OR it gets changed as I suggested above. But based on what you said, one would need to be changed.

Based on your POINT, this is a far worse situation than opting out of the individual missions which would just make teaming (based on the OPs original complaint) much easier.

Its a game...there a plenty of things here that are done for the sake of the game...sorry if it isn't all cut and dry.

Actually that comes after AT/Power Set Respecs, and then just letting us pick and choose any individual power we want.

You mean other people can't do that currentl... er uhm. I mean, that would be way over powered for the game.

Originally Posted by PapaSlade Rangle's right....this is fun.

Exactly. And for the sake of the game rogues and vigilantes don't earn the same rewards as heroes and villains.

Please stop pushing the rewards thing. I am not arguing for rewards. Everyone seems entrenched on that.

All I was suggesting was the ability to have the 5 missions a day be toggled on/off or an option a the end of mish. This has NO IMPACT ON REWARDS. It will force you to do more missions to get to your rewards.

And like I said you can come at it with all the real world complaints like Claws has, but in the end you can opt out of your morality selection after you've run 10 missions and the morality mish.

Today, you can turn off xp so you don't outlevel content. Then why not turn off accruing the alignment missions?

So please if you are going to respond to my idea, STOP INCLUDING REWARDS AS PART OF THE GRIPE. I'm just trying to propose a solution (game-wise) that would allow the OP to play with friends who may be a different alignment (get no special treatment or rewards OR accrue his alignment) until he runs his own missions and opts to get credit for them.

Yeah, I saw it.

I also saw the part where you want to run missions that are not your current alignment and have them not count.

You don't want missions you run to count against the 5 you can run per day? Run non-tip missions.

You can get any non-purple, non PvP IO in the game for 2 alignment merits, which you get for Hero and Villain specific missions. That is intended to have a REAL-TIME GATE on it. It is intended to take you 2 days to get one merit. You also get 60 Reward Merits for reaffirming your Vigilante or Rogue status. Again, that is supposed to have a time gate.

Why is that relevant you ask?

Because the way the system is designed, you are supposed to be penalized for running Tip missions that are not of your current alignment. The penalty comes in the form of it taking you longer to get your merits if you do non-alignment missions. How many missions you actually run is not the point, it is meant to be a real time penalty. If you fill up your 5 missions for that day with non-aligned missions, it will take you an additional day to get your reward.

You want to run Hero tips with a Vigilante, get your missions out of the way first.

Don't get pissed at ME because I understand how the system is meant to work and you don't LIKE how it works.

You keep saying it's "not about the rewards" and what you're failing to grasp is that the entire system is balanced around those rewards that you keep claiming don't matter.

Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately.

Sorry to disappoint you but you don't get to dictate how people respond to your posts.

The feature doesn't need a solution because it is working exactly the way the devs intended it to. The fact that you and a few others don't like it doesn't matter.

This.

You can get mad at us all you like but it still isn't going to change the devs minds.

Again. I was proposing an idea. I never said I don't like how it works. I'm fine with it. I was addressing a problem with a solution. You just seem to want to argue about rewards.

From your previous comments however, it seems you don't like the system. Based on your real world examples you don't' think it should be possible to decide to not take the morality you've just spent working toward...yet the system allows you to do that. My idea was based on the fact that this is already possible and just moving the same option to the individual alignment missions.

My idea also still penalizes you because you are still not getting any credit toward your alignment as your are opting out of them until you run your own. True, it is not as large a penalty. It may be a few hours vs. 20 hours for the notoriety to wear off.

BTW, I'm not PISSED, just disappointed with the responses I get that aren't constructive to a legitimate idea. There's a reason I haven't posted much in the 7 years I've been on this game (yes Pre-Beta, don't go by my board date), but this thread obviously caught my attention.

I know..I must be a whiner because I can't take a criticism...but it isn't constructive and also didn't address what I was trying to provide, which was a proposed solution to the ongoing discussion.

This is a very simple answer. Turning off your XP is a self-imposed penalty. You are voluntarily slowing down your progress.

On the other hand, turning off accruing alignment missions will allow you to avoid a game-imposed penalty.

Basically, you are allowed to penalize yourself if you choose to, but you aren't allowed to UNpenalize yourself.

Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately.

Yes its working as intended as most things have in the past...but there are things that get changed as well over time.

Its a solution, if its implemented I'm fine with it. It will help some people out (I'm not one of them). If it doesn't, I'm fine with that too, but again, thanks for the very constructive criticism that always seems to be given to people's ideas on here.

Its so much easier to snipe a proposal than actual come up with one.

To continue to think its not a problem obviously isn't true if people are discussing it, otherwise we wouldn't even be doing this right now.

I'm so glad mine and a few others opinions doesn't matter...that's a really great comment. Thanks, I guess I'm done then. Thanks for that fantastic realization I've completely wasted my time...and apparently yours because you had to respond to it.

If it weren't a proposal that would allow players to circumvent a balance point in the alignment system, it might have been received better.

Your proposal, as it stands, would completely undermine the balance in the tip mission/alignment system.

I've already gone over it a couple times. 2 days is intended to be the fastest you can acquire the rewards for that system. Your alignment actually MATTERS in that system. If you run missions that are not of your current alignment, it takes longer to get those rewards.

If you can run all the missions you like of alignments not your own and just choose to ignore them as far as your reputation is concerned, then your alignment doesn't matter at all, and you can still get your rewards in 2 days, instead of being penalized like you're supposed to. If your alignment doesn't matter they might as well just get rid of the system altogether.

Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately.

2 days is still a long time and putting that off the time it takes to run with your friends on a different alignment is still a penalty. And seriously..2 days is a LONG time. Especially if you don't even get through all 5 tips for the day.

Also, how does this circumvent anything...all of what you are saying is circumvented today if you do your alignment first and then run as many other alignment missions as you want with your friends (which will count toward nothing if you've done your 5 missions for the day). So what is the difference if you have an option that lets you do that part first and then do your own alignment. There is a flaw in what you are saying because you can still do all of that today, just in a specific order. So what I am proposing is a convenience that you don't have to do your alignment first. You keep claiming I'm changing the system...but it works that way today and it works differently than you seem to understand it to be working. There's no penalty today if I were to do my alignments first and then do someone else's after that.

Its still a legitimate solution and doesn't fundamentally change anything in how it works today except an option of the order in which it must be done.

Lets assume this is a problem...just for the sake of the discussion. Pretend you actually think its a problem, what would be a possible solution? Because that's where I'd like to get to. This is suggestions and ideas after all.

I could make an amusing comparison to the Incarnate system...and I guess I kind of just did.

I'm not really sure why finding inequality in the current reward scheme is apparently the same as wanting to eliminate any kind of reward scheme at all.

We don't have to come up with a proposal because we are happy with the way it works.

The devs aren't discussing it with you. Not one redname has responded to this suggestion.

Get used to it. The devs have have made plenty of unilateral decisions on how they want the game to work and the fact that there are people that disagree with those decisions doesn't matter.

No. Let's not pretend there's an imaginary problem. Imaginary problems don't need solutions, because they don't exist. Oh wait Not pretending there is a problem is in itself a solution to an imaginary problem.

Well if you realize it or not, you are "happy with the way it works", and it works exactly the way you keep fighting me on. You can do everything I propose today, just in a specific order. Do your alignments and then as many as you can do with your friends with no "penalty". Out of convenience someone may want to opt to do their missions at their own time, so turn off accruing them until ready, that's all I'm suggesting.

You guys keep saying I'm trying to undermine an as-intended design, yet if the way you continue to think it works is not flawed, take another look. You should be suggesting they fix the "hole" in the system that you think that I'm trying to create...its there. IT'S ALREADY THERE. So maybe it needs to be corrected a different way based on what you continue to battle me on.

But if in the end its all pointless and the devs don't listen, then let it go. I put out something that can be a legitimate QoL enhancement to the way the system already works...not breaking the current design or circumventing anything that is already working as is.

I already made my suggestion, which is for the devs to do nothing because the feature is working as intended and doesn't need to be changed.

So then you are happy with the fact that you can do any number of other-alignment missions (as long as you do yours first) with no penalties and no special rewards associated? That seems to have been the issue you and Claws took with my suggestion that it would in some way change the system as it works today. It does not.

If you are ok with that, then there is nothing wrong with my suggestion of allowing someone to choose to do that in a different order. That's my suggestion for this QoL enhancement. Will it be considered, I don't know. It still doesn't have the negative effects you folks seem to think it has, and I continue to stand by it as a legitimate suggestion as there has yet to be any negative implications.

You can argue till you are blue in the face It's still working as intended.

I'm not arguing. You've already agreed with me, so there is no argument apparently. I guess we've been saying the same thing all along.

I'm requesting something that enhances how it is already working as intended.

Except no you're not. You're trying to get them to put in something that unbalances it.

I say like others, that no change AT ALL is needed to the system. There is no need to enhance anything cause the system is working as is.

Now please do hold some sense of humility. The devs have made many changes based on feedback and they have not responded to each one. Nor did they respond to each one immediate that they DID get involved in. While obviously we each think we are right, we can at least try to discuss things as if we are indeed right and it's a fact.

Even science and religion rewrites itself when it finds problems. How could you assume some frivolous game on the interent would be an exception for this? How could you assume that you are DEFINITIVELY right when generations have believed things later dis-proven.

Fact is we disagree, but you overstep your bounds as an individual presenting an opinion. As do many others in this thread. We all have opinions. We discuss them. We believe in them. But they ARE opinions. The status quo does not make them right, nor does it make them wrong.

A sense of respect should be held for every poster when at all possible. With that also some courtesy. Bias has been accused in this thread. Yes I will admit I play primarily vigilante's. Because I have a running theme making many of my characters robots. Robots being logical make choices hero's would not. The "greater good". I DID NOT make this choice for rewards, nor did I have any idea that there would be significant awards attached.

I agreed with yall already on the reward type being separate. IE keep current rewards and values for vigilante and hero and rogue and villain. What I disagree with is that the penalty should be doubled by making it harder to complete the exact same course of action to achieve those lesser rewards by limiting teaming. As if limiting teaming wasn't bad enough in and of itself.

Also, please try to remember that everyone plays in different ways with different amounts of time. Just because your fine with it and it doesn't bother you doesn't mean it doesn't bother others. It's been mentioned before, it'll be mentioned again, and I can already find quite a few threads discussing similar things.

Perhaps the greater irony here will be if change WAS to get implemented. Would you complain? Would you switch places with us an wonder why anyone has problems with your ideas? Would you merely go about your game and not even care about something you made such a fuss about defending? Perspective is a tricky thing and we don't always even know/present ourselves well.

My idea unbalances NOTHING. It works that way today. You can do any number of non-alignment missions after you work on your own alignment. There is no penalty and no extra rewards involved. And that is how it works today.

I have put out a suggestion to allow for having the same effect except you now have the option to do any number of those missions before you decide to enable accruing your own alignment missions. Its a QoL enhancement for the convenience of teaming.

And if the system stays the same that's fine too, because you can still do what I have been saying all along, except it requires you to do it in a specific order. So if you and others continue to say its working as intended, then in all reality, you have no issue with my suggestion because it really has no negative effects on play.

Yes, you CAN do exactly that.

Now, if you can already do that, why do you need to be able to ignore the missions' affect on your reputation again. If you can already circumvent it, why not just do it that way instead of proposing that we be able to ignore non-alignment reputation?

And you still haven't answered my question. If you can just ignore any alignment mission you don't want to affect your reputation, what is the point of it different alignments even existing? If you can ignore the affect those missions have on your character, why not just be able to choose your alignment with no missions involved? Then you can be a Hero, Vigilante, Villain, or Rogue as the whim strikes you, and you will never have consequences for anything you do.

And it still doesn't make any thematic sense for you to be able to decide that crime you just committed has no bearing on how people see you (which is what the reputation bubbles are representing)

It doesn't have to be perfectly realistic, but it does make it more believable when your actions actually affect how people perceive your character. A Hero doing Vigilante missions starts to lose the public's trust, it is just stupid to suggest that a Hero should be able to go do all those things and have the public still think he's the perfect heroic character.

Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately.

You clearly still don't get it.

If you have 5 empty bubbles and do non-alignment missions, it is SUPPOSED to fill those bubbles with reputation of the alignment you don't want.

If you are a Vigilante and everyone else is running Hero tips and you want to work on your alignment, you are forced to do them before you can team with the Heroes if you do not want to be penalized.

Basically, you have a choice: Fill up your bubbles BEFORE you team with non-aligned people -OR- Take longer to get your rewards.

You've made it clear that you don't like that. And you've made it equally clear that you don't comprehend WHY it is working as intended.

To put it as simply as possible: When you work with people your character would not NORMALLY work with, it is going to cost you something. Being able to ignore alignment differences means you can ignore the cost associated with wanting to team with characters not aligned with you.

Since the devs did not allow us to ignore the drawbacks of having differing alignments from the beginning, it is a very safe bet that they don't WANT us ignoring them.

Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately.