No that's it. The devs felt that this gave players more freedom to be creative with their characters, and they were right.
Consider "the Origin the end-all be-all that the character creation screen treats it" as an acknowledged mistake in the development process, and it's been minimized wherever possible until such time as they can address it.
Basically they know (game) life altering choices made at creation and unchangeable are ok in theory, but bad in practice. Tying bonuses or perks to them makes things even worse, particularly for the "new player"
They learned this mistake in the original beta, and left the Origins in because there was always the potential for getting the tech to fix that problem.
Things being what they were, they never got around to it really, but we're at a point now where they actually do have the tech. With the branching mission dialog and goal system, the badges with various hidden ID flags, and with the ability to make and apply a wide range of temp powers tied to origins.
Whether they do any of that remains to be seen. Either they left Origins where they were in the new creator for Legacy reasons, or they have actual plans so that people don't need to worry about, learn about, and min-max, but they become something that enriches the story experience, giving players minor variations that make things more interesting.
"Null is as much an argument "for removing the cottage rule" as the moon being round is for buying tennis shoes." -Memphis Bill
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But wouldn't there be more freedom if there were no Origins at all?
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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
No that's it. The devs felt that this gave players more freedom to be creative with their characters, and they were right.
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The game ends at 50.
SmilegasmDo not ever give Mind Control a pet.
We need more control sets without pets.My characters are not "toons".
They are all project characters, though.Global chat @Lxndr My servers: Defiant, Liberty, Pinnacle, Virtue
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It's along the same reasoning as "why bother having costume pieces if they don't do anything?"|
Originally Posted by Lxndr
But wouldn't there be more freedom if there were no Origins at all?
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It's largely a cosmetic choice for fleshing out a history of your character.
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It's not even that useful for fleshing out given the arbitrary ambiguity of it. I don't know how many times I've sat there looking at an alien warrior thinking "well, at least I know it's not Magic".
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Originally Posted by LordLundar
It's along the same reasoning as "why bother having costume pieces if they don't do anything?"
It's largely a cosmetic choice for fleshing out a history of your character. |
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I don't think I've ever really had to stop and think about an origin. They're fairly straightforward. Now, some people do have a decent argument for a dual origin (they rely on gadgets as much as their natural training, for instance,) but ambiguous? Not really.|
Originally Posted by rsclark
It's not even that useful for fleshing out given the arbitrary ambiguity of it. I don't know how many times I've sat there looking at an alien warrior thinking "well, at least I know it's not Magic".
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As far as what they do - yes, with the branching tech and detection (like in Mender Ramiel's arc) I'd love to see more done with them.
Why they're around - I suspect they're very deeply baked into the character database as an artifact from Alpha (when Origin had a *huge* impact - determining how many powers you could take and how far you could advance them,) and that being able to remove/respec them is much, much more of an undertaking than we think (and could break far more than we suspect, past the obvious.)
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Only if you want to stereotype. There are examples of magic origin type aliens in comics and such.
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Originally Posted by rsclark
It's not even that useful for fleshing out given the arbitrary ambiguity of it. I don't know how many times I've sat there looking at an alien warrior thinking "well, at least I know it's not Magic".
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Orc&Pie No.53230 There is an orc, and somehow, he got a pie. And you are hungry.
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Negaduck: I see you found the crumb. I knew you'd never notice the huge flag.
I'm not sure what you mean by (3), what origins should Trick Arrow take to ignite powers and why?
But there might be a (5): Vet powers that benefit by your Origin, say Blackwand for Mutation (and Magic?), Nemesis Staff for Tech (and Natural, Science?).
The differences aren't great, but they are noticeable.
Magic and tech origins' ranged brawl deal energy damage, and thus allow a TA to ignite the oil slick. Especially if their other powerset lacks any form of energy or fire damage
Orc&Pie No.53230 There is an orc, and somehow, he got a pie. And you are hungry.
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Negaduck: I see you found the crumb. I knew you'd never notice the huge flag.
Quote:
Beta Ray Bill! Woooo! Can I get a high-five from the gallery?
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Originally Posted by Rajani Isa
Only if you want to stereotype. There are examples of magic origin type aliens in comics and such.
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Example of non-obvious origin - Flower Knight. While she supplements it with gadgets (part of at one time the system had a primary/secondary origins) she is identified as a magic hero because her archery skill is bestowed upon her by her bow.
Orc&Pie No.53230 There is an orc, and somehow, he got a pie. And you are hungry.
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Negaduck: I see you found the crumb. I knew you'd never notice the huge flag.
I can't find any references to it but I seem to recall that your origin can effect some of the Vet bonus powers. For instance I believe if you are magic origin and choose the blackwand power you get extra damage out of it.
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Only the 33 month vet reward gets a damage bonus based on the characters origin.
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Originally Posted by _ACFU_
I can't find any references to it but I seem to recall that your origin can effect some of the Vet bonus powers. For instance I believe if you are magic origin and choose the blackwand power you get extra damage out of it.
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Yeah - when given the choice between the Nemesis Staff and blackwand as part of the 33 month reward, tech/sci origins get a bonus with the staff, Magic/Mutant with the wand, and natural gets the bonus on both. You don't get the shot at the bonus damage when given a shot at the one you didn't pick later.
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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Only the 33 month vet reward gets a damage bonus based on the characters origin.
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Orc&Pie No.53230 There is an orc, and somehow, he got a pie. And you are hungry.
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Negaduck: I see you found the crumb. I knew you'd never notice the huge flag.
While I understand the focus on Origins (as it is a concrete choice that you must make at the start and can never change), they are no more (or less) useless than any other aspect of flavor to the game.
And if flavor was useless, Min/Maxers would just sit around looking at numbers and percentages and try to change them with clicking keys and buttons.
@Zethustra
"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
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I do this enough at work. When I play, I want my button and key clicking to cause explosions.
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Originally Posted by Electric-Knight
And if flavor was useless, Min/Maxers would just sit around looking at numbers and percentages and try to change them with clicking keys and buttons.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
Beta Ray Bill! Woooo! Can I get a high-five from the gallery?
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You don't think it's ambiguous, well, I just have this to say...
Mutation is nothing but a Natural that hasn't reproduced enough yet.
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When did this change? It used to be Tech/Sci and Natural get the bonus from the staff, and Magic/Mutant the wand. I didn't know natural gets the bonus from both. What happens when you get the second vet power choice(guessing around 66 months) as a natural and can take both the wand AND the staff, do they get bonus for both?
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Originally Posted by Rajani Isa
Yeah - when given the choice between the Nemesis Staff and blackwand as part of the 33 month reward, tech/sci origins get a bonus with the staff, Magic/Mutant with the wand, and natural gets the bonus on both. You don't get the shot at the bonus damage when given a shot at the one you didn't pick later.
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-Largo
Founder of A.G.O.N.Y. Supergroup on Victory
Member of Thought Sanctum VG on Victory
Member of St0rm Batallion SG on Guardian
As he said, your second picked power doesn't get the bonus damage.
"Null is as much an argument "for removing the cottage rule" as the moon being round is for buying tennis shoes." -Memphis Bill
I ran across a Praetorian disarm bomb mission, where clicking on the bomb provided two options, one of which depended upon your origin. It was both a cute and unexpected surprise.
-Johnny
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Most likely because of that very fact. They wouldn't want naturals getting both with bonus when others could only have one.|
Originally Posted by Lemur Lad
As he said, your second picked power doesn't get the bonus damage.
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Unfortunately, since I chose before they revealed you'd be able to get it later, my magic scrapper has neither with bonus damage - the Staff weapon is too much fun.
Orc&Pie No.53230 There is an orc, and somehow, he got a pie. And you are hungry.
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Negaduck: I see you found the crumb. I knew you'd never notice the huge flag.
From a purely roleplaying perspective, I like origins. But from a mechanical perspective, I'm more confused. Especially since you *must* choose one during character creation.
Hell, in Freedom you must choose it before you even get to the meat of your character.
What am I missing? Here's what Origins seem to do:
This is compiled from memory, so I'm sure I'm missing something:
(1) For heroes origins determine one's starting missions. This does not affect Villains or Praetorians, and appears to be not-so-true in the Beta, too.
(2) Origins serve as a filtering system for DOs and SOs. Which are being deprecated by IOs, anyway.
(3) Origin-specific powers. Certainly somewhat flavorful. (and at least in one case, can make or break certain builds - Trick Arrow apparently is advised to take certain Origins to ignite their Oil Slick)
(4) Origin-specific titles. Again, certainly somewhat flavorful.
Is there anything I'm missing that could possibly make the Origin the end-all be-all that the character creation screen treats it?
The game ends at 50.
Do not ever give Mind Control a pet.
My characters are not "toons".
Global chat @Lxndr My servers: Defiant, Liberty, Pinnacle, Virtue