Well, one thing we know is that MM Thermal actually uses Corruptor level resistance but the debuffs and damage buffs are lower.
This strikes me as very strange because they broke some rules (MM is supposed to support "less"). I wish they could broken some rules for Trick Arrows as well. That set's debuff value is so freaking low. They could have increased the -damage and -tohit part.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
Quote:
i tested it with assaultbot and battle drones. both got purple text by 90%
|
Originally Posted by Jibikao
This is very strange. I was pretty sure pet's resistance cap is only up to 75%. 90% is like Tanker/Brute level?
I seriously doubt pets can go up that high in actual performance. Maybe combat details lied? Unless there is a difference in which pet? |
Helge corr lvl 50 rad/cold
Helge2 corr lvl 50 ice/rad
Techbothelge MM lvl 50 robo/dark
Helge Mauz def lvl 50 emp/ele
illuhelge troller lvl 50 illu/rad
Wiederbelebter helge nk lvl 50 bs/reg
Maennerschreack nightwidow lvl 44
Quantenjaeger ws lvl 3
Quote:
I typed different words from what my brain was trying to use. Ember DEMON has a single target heal power, and although I wouldn't wager my soul on it, I am fairly certain that a few very rare times, the ember demon used the single target ranged heal on my mastermind. Again, I don't have the demorecord, the combat log, but I am fairly sure on a demon summoning mastermind without a self-heal, solo-ing, instance style, either my DS/Storm or DS/poison was shocked to receive a single target heal from the ember demon.|
Originally Posted by Necrotech_Master
its not the ember shield that heals, he has another power which he spams which is aoe heal, but has a target cap of 7 (6 pets + the mm), i forget what the name of the power specifically is but i know its not ember shield since that is an auto power and applied all the time
the single target heal the ember demon has will not ever be used to heal the mm, but the mm can be healed by the aoe heal |
I didn't realize there was a 7 target limit on the PbAoE heal ala warmth from a thermal mastermind as used by the ember demon. I certainly plan to test this as well.
Triumphant Defenders Forever
Psylenz FF/Psi, ArticQuark Storm/Rad, Symon BarSisyphus Bots/psn, Max VanSydow Thugs/Dk, Cyclone Symon Bots/stm, Blue Loki Ice/Cd, Widow 46526
HelinCarnate:OMG it is so terrible. I have the option to take 3 more powers but no additional slots. Boo F'ing hoo.
Quote:
in all the time ive ever used my demon/trap toon ive never once received a single target heal from the ember demon, now i do get hit by the aoe heal quit often though, and yeah i was kinda confused by the extremely low target limit of the ember demons aoe heal (all of the powers can be seen if you look at the detailed info of either the pet summon or the upgrade powers), i think the ember demons heal is called abyssal mending or something of the sort (its essentially cauterize with a different name and stats)
|
Originally Posted by Psylenz
I typed different words from what my brain was trying to use. Ember DEMON has a single target heal power, and although I wouldn't wager my soul on it, I am fairly certain that a few very rare times, the ember demon used the single target ranged heal on my mastermind. Again, I don't have the demorecord, the combat log, but I am fairly sure on a demon summoning mastermind without a self-heal, solo-ing, instance style, either my DS/Storm or DS/poison was shocked to receive a single target heal from the ember demon.
I didn't realize there was a 7 target limit on the PbAoE heal ala warmth from a thermal mastermind as used by the ember demon. I certainly plan to test this as well. |
Good news, firm data. I checked the paragonwiki, it didn't help much. Abyssal mending aka cauterize doesn't get much detail. You say look at the detail info for the enchant and abyssal empowerment. Is that in game? on Mids? I don't want to be snarky, just trying to quash a false memory of my own.
Triumphant Defenders Forever
Psylenz FF/Psi, ArticQuark Storm/Rad, Symon BarSisyphus Bots/psn, Max VanSydow Thugs/Dk, Cyclone Symon Bots/stm, Blue Loki Ice/Cd, Widow 46526
HelinCarnate:OMG it is so terrible. I have the option to take 3 more powers but no additional slots. Boo F'ing hoo.
Quote:
in game, i dont believe the power says that it cant be used on the mm, just from personal experience ive never seen it used on the mm
|
Originally Posted by Psylenz
Good news, firm data. I checked the paragonwiki, it didn't help much. Abyssal mending aka cauterize doesn't get much detail. You say look at the detail info for the enchant and abyssal empowerment. Is that in game? on Mids? I don't want to be snarky, just trying to quash a false memory of my own.
|
Quote:
Ok, from personal experience, I think it happens so very rarely it cannot be depended on. So in practice we agree that the mastermind needs ways to mitigate his own damage received.
|
Originally Posted by Necrotech_Master
in game, i dont believe the power says that it cant be used on the mm, just from personal experience ive never seen it used on the mm
|
Triumphant Defenders Forever
Psylenz FF/Psi, ArticQuark Storm/Rad, Symon BarSisyphus Bots/psn, Max VanSydow Thugs/Dk, Cyclone Symon Bots/stm, Blue Loki Ice/Cd, Widow 46526
HelinCarnate:OMG it is so terrible. I have the option to take 3 more powers but no additional slots. Boo F'ing hoo.
Quote:
Pfeh. With an effective resistance that's higher than a tanker's cap, the PBAoE heal will be more than plenty.
|
Originally Posted by Psylenz
Ok, from personal experience, I think it happens so very rarely it cannot be depended on. So in practice we agree that the mastermind needs ways to mitigate his own damage received.
|
Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
Quote:
Quite right. At level 32, when ember demon gets the PbAoE heal, Demons/Sonic might not be as over the top as Bots/Traps, but I see it as being very effective. /Traps is a very high standard to compare with. Compare the -resistance of disruption field with /storm. It's not as high in -resistance, but it doesn't have a duration, it's mobile, you don't have to recast it, you can have your pet attack specific foes which is sometimes hard to do with teammates :P. Kidding aside, tanks are great anchors for sonic disruption, but sometimes communications fail, egos clash, priorities are in conflict. NPC pets don't have that option.|
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
Pfeh. With an effective resistance that's higher than a tanker's cap, the PBAoE heal will be more than plenty.
|
I eagerly await my DS/sonic's appearance in Atlas Park.
Triumphant Defenders Forever
Psylenz FF/Psi, ArticQuark Storm/Rad, Symon BarSisyphus Bots/psn, Max VanSydow Thugs/Dk, Cyclone Symon Bots/stm, Blue Loki Ice/Cd, Widow 46526
HelinCarnate:OMG it is so terrible. I have the option to take 3 more powers but no additional slots. Boo F'ing hoo.
Word of warning - an actively attacking MM with Demon's Whips + Sonic's toggles is going to be challenged by endurance management. Have your merit farmer earn a lvl 20 Miracle unique for immediate usage at lvl 17, is my advice. Thinking of Disruption Field's end cost increasing (as per usual for MMs) makes my spine shiver.
Global = Hedgefund (or some derivation thereof)
Quote:
end is not much of an issue when you start taking into account incarnate stuff|
Originally Posted by Deacon_NA
Word of warning - an actively attacking MM with Demon's Whips + Sonic's toggles is going to be challenged by endurance management. Have your merit farmer earn a lvl 20 Miracle unique for immediate usage at lvl 17, is my advice. Thinking of Disruption Field's end cost increasing (as per usual for MMs) makes my spine shiver.
|
t4 cardiac + ageless with end recov means you shouldnt have hardly any end issues
my demon/trap runs like 7 toggles and with just a cardiac t4 was not doing very bad for end even with using traps a lot plus some attacks. i recently got a tier 2 ageless with end recov and he rarely goes under half of his end bar anymore
Quote:
That's great if you go to AE to have a SS/Fire brute PL you. However, I intend to play mine to 50 and I'm sure others will as well. FYI - endurance for Traps doesn't even begin to compare to Sonic's. Even pre-inherent Stamina I omitted Stamina for my Trappers. A Sonic couldn't even consider going Stamina-less.|
Originally Posted by Necrotech_Master
end is not much of an issue when you start taking into account incarnate stuff
t4 cardiac + ageless with end recov means you shouldnt have hardly any end issues my demon/trap runs like 7 toggles and with just a cardiac t4 was not doing very bad for end even with using traps a lot plus some attacks. i recently got a tier 2 ageless with end recov and he rarely goes under half of his end bar anymore |
I always go to Cardiac with my Sonics, it's ideal with both endurance and resists enhancements.
Global = Hedgefund (or some derivation thereof)
Quote:
Oh, I'm aware of this. I have a Necro/Storm that is similarly challenged for endurance consumption, but mostly because my Lightning Storm recharges at an obscene rate. I've also leveled a Dark Armor brute without stamina. Right now, I've got more influence and merits than I know what to do with, so the miracle/numina combo will be both quick and easy to obtain.|
Originally Posted by Deacon_NA
Word of warning - an actively attacking MM with Demon's Whips + Sonic's toggles is going to be challenged by endurance management. Have your merit farmer earn a lvl 20 Miracle unique for immediate usage at lvl 17, is my advice. Thinking of Disruption Field's end cost increasing (as per usual for MMs) makes my spine shiver.
|
I think I'll be alright.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Necrotech_Master
t4 cardiac + ageless with end recov means you shouldnt have hardly any end issues
|
Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
Quote:
AT mods don't affect powers across the board with every power, instead the mods are set for each type of buff, debuff, heals, ect ect....|
Originally Posted by Jibikao
Well, one thing we know is that MM Thermal actually uses Corruptor level resistance but the debuffs and damage buffs are lower.
This strikes me as very strange because they broke some rules (MM is supposed to support "less"). I wish they could broken some rules for Trick Arrows as well. That set's debuff value is so freaking low. They could have increased the -damage and -tohit part. |
This allows tanks to have the highest values for personal resistances and defense, but low values for team buffs so they don't step on support classes toes.
MM have lower values than corruptors when it comes to heals, -to hit, -def, -dmg and a few others, but share the same values for +res, +def, and -res.
Level 50s: to many to remember at this point
I think the lack of heals in /sonic prevents the Demons/Sonic combo from being "overpowered". And the tier 2 demon healing is not particularly reliable.
Robot/traps will probably still have toughest pets after /sonic comes out.
Quote:
Commando from the Mercs set can go up to 90%. I get him up to that every time I use Serum on him. At least it says he's at 90% (in blue) when I look at his details.|
Originally Posted by Jibikao
This is very strange. I was pretty sure pet's resistance cap is only up to 75%. 90% is like Tanker/Brute level?
I seriously doubt pets can go up that high in actual performance. Maybe combat details lied? Unless there is a difference in which pet? |
He seems to perform as one very invincible guy too, so I don't doubt it's real, but maybe... I know my MM character herself softcaps at 75, so it is kind of ironic.
Quote:
No they don't. There are a lot of inconsistencies. The older sets like Trick Arrow and Force Field all have less "value" than Corruptor. The newer sets like Thermal use the same resistance value but less on damage buff. |
Originally Posted by Brynstar
MM have lower values than corruptors when it comes to heals, -to hit, -def, -dmg and a few others, but share the same values for +res, +def, and -res.
|
I am not too sure if MM is "supposed" to have less support values (they probably should) but there are many inconsistencies and I hope they can finalize them. Trick Arrows' debuff value is very low on MM. If they want to balance /thermal and maybe /sonic by keeping the same +resistance buff %, then I hope they can do something about Trick Arrow and Force Field.
The tohit debuff in /dark is even less on MM.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
Quote:
I am very surprised that boss pets can go up to 90%. I don't know if this is a glitch or not but I remember the cap on pets used to be 75% and only Brute and Tanker can go higher.
|
Originally Posted by 8-J
Commando from the Mercs set can go up to 90%. I get him up to that every time I use Serum on him. At least it says he's at 90% (in blue) when I look at his details.
He seems to perform as one very invincible guy too, so I don't doubt it's real, but maybe... I know my MM character herself softcaps at 75, so it is kind of ironic. |
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
Quote:
/this|
Originally Posted by Jibikao
I am very surprised that boss pets can go up to 90%. I don't know if this is a glitch or not but I remember the cap on pets used to be 75% and only Brute and Tanker can go higher.
|
they must have changed the values at some point cause im very positive that pets used to have a 75% resist cap
the only things i know of which go up to 90% are brute tanker and NPCS (which cap at 95%)
Quote:
Outside of a very few exceptions, all NPCs cap at 90% too.|
Originally Posted by Necrotech_Master
the only things i know of which go up to 90% are brute tanker and NPCS (which cap at 95%)
|
The AVs that used to cap at 100% have been changed to cap at 95%. I suppose these are the only ones that matter, though, because they're the only things that can reach those caps.
Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
What would be the point in 90% Resistances to the pets, in a game where avoiding damage is key? Going by their horrible health pools, wouldn't being hit at 90% HP still result in instagibbing? Not to mention all the little sources of constant damage.
Quote:
90% means they are taking 10 points of damage for every 100 points tossed at them. To be hit with 600 points of damage, the intitial attack would have to be 6000 points. There isnt much in the game that tosses that out at you.|
Originally Posted by Reppu
What would be the point in 90% Resistances to the pets, in a game where avoiding damage is key? Going by their horrible health pools, wouldn't being hit at 90% HP still result in instagibbing? Not to mention all the little sources of constant damage.
|
Pair it with any other type of mitigation be it heals, or defence and you have a very tough pet.
Defence softcap is great, but layering works much better.
Quote:
At level 32, Ember demon should be able to keep up with most of the resulting 10% experienced by the pets. The resistance will stack well with the other debuff and mitigation available.
|
Originally Posted by Reppu
What would be the point in 90% Resistances to the pets, in a game where avoiding damage is key? Going by their horrible health pools, wouldn't being hit at 90% HP still result in instagibbing? Not to mention all the little sources of constant damage.
|
Triumphant Defenders Forever
Psylenz FF/Psi, ArticQuark Storm/Rad, Symon BarSisyphus Bots/psn, Max VanSydow Thugs/Dk, Cyclone Symon Bots/stm, Blue Loki Ice/Cd, Widow 46526
HelinCarnate:OMG it is so terrible. I have the option to take 3 more powers but no additional slots. Boo F'ing hoo.
Quote:
90% resistance is equivalent to the softcap of 45% in mitigation value except for a few cases. Debuffs aren't resisted, so defense helps avoid those. It is common for enemies to have +tohit or -defense which very quickly negates the defense.|
Originally Posted by Reppu
What would be the point in 90% Resistances to the pets, in a game where avoiding damage is key? Going by their horrible health pools, wouldn't being hit at 90% HP still result in instagibbing? Not to mention all the little sources of constant damage.
|
All things considered, generally resistance performs better than defense, as long as the resists aren't capped below 90%.
Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
i tested how high the rescap for henchmen is. there were pruple ingamenumbers at 90% res
I seriously doubt pets can go up that high in actual performance. Maybe combat details lied?
Unless there is a difference in which pet?
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.