Defender or Corruptor
By
Amy_Amp,
Posted on: 2011-07-21 11:49 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
Defender. Leverage the debuffs, that's what those sets are best at.
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Thanks. That's what I figured.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
Defender. Leverage the debuffs, that's what those sets are best at.
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Originally Posted by Crysys
Peacebringers at least got a recent overhaul. They moved up from sucktastic to craptacular.
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Corruptor is my favorite AT in the game.
Sure the debuffs are less, but the damage is more. And with Sonic Blast/ to get even more more damage... I'd take the corr, tyvm.
City of Heroes was my first MMO, & my favorite computer game.
R.I.P.
Chyll - Bydand - Violynce - Enyrgos - Rylle - Nephryte - Solyd - Fettyr - Hyposhock - Styrling - Beryllos - Rosyc
Horryd - Myriam - Dysquiet - Ghyr
Vanysh - Eldrytch
Inflyct - Mysron - Orphyn - Dysmay - Reapyr - - Wyldeman - Hydeous
My vote goes to Defender.
I've played Sonic Attack on Defenders, and it is a lot of fun due to the high debuff numbers. I've only ever played Radiation Emission on a Corruptor, and it rocks, so I can only imagine what it can do with Defender debuffs.
@Winter. Because I'm Winter. Period.
I am a blaster first, and an alt-oholic second.
Another question. If I were aiming to Solo AV/GM's is there a better choice between the two Archetypes?
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Originally Posted by Crysys
Peacebringers at least got a recent overhaul. They moved up from sucktastic to craptacular.
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Your personal damage is more depending on the situation. On a team, a defender wins out.|
Originally Posted by Chyll
Corruptor is my favorite AT in the game.
Sure the debuffs are less, but the damage is more. And with Sonic Blast/ to get even more more damage... I'd take the corr, tyvm. |
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Originally Posted by Energy_Blaze
Another question. If I were aiming to Solo AV/GM's is there a better choice between the two Archetypes?
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I hardly play defenders, I don't like them very much, but imo this particular combo is better on a def, both for soloing AVs/GMs and teams.
More -tohit, -res, -def, -regen from Radiation and more -res from sonic blast. I have a rad/psi and a sonic/sonic, I think a rad/sonic would be completely insane. Well people have soloed GMs before Going Rogue and incarnates, iirc they were all rad/sonics. A traps/sonic could also do it but when ppl were posting these things all the time there wasn't traps for defs.
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I agree.|
Originally Posted by Kioshi
I hardly play defenders, I don't like them very much, but imo this particular combo is better on a def, both for soloing AVs/GMs and teams.
More -tohit, -res, -def, -regen from Radiation and more -res from sonic blast. I have a rad/psi and a sonic/sonic, I think a rad/sonic would be completely insane. Well people have soloed GMs before Going Rogue and incarnates, iirc they were all rad/sonics. A traps/sonic could also do it but when ppl were posting these things all the time there wasn't traps for defs. |
I prefer Corrs completely over Defenders, but the -Res numbers on Sonic for Defenders are really so much better than the Corr's for this specific combo that its hard to argue with.
That's my "at a glance" opinion.
I'm not really sure just how much better (or possibly even not better, but I doubt it) the Defender has it.
For one thing, the Defender starts with better -RES from Enervating Field (-30% Res vs. -22.5%).
Followed by the Defender's better -Res from Sonic Attacks (-20% vs. -15%).
And lastly, a 30% Damage bonus solo for your GM/AV Hunting needs.
However you also have to take into consideration the Corr's higher damage scalar, and Scourge.
Th entire comparison is more math than I'm willing to ever attempt.
Corruptor damage modifier is 0.75, Defender is 0.65. Since these are multipliers, they act similarly to resistance debuffs and apply to the final, slotted damage with all +damage bonuses applied. We'll assume all of these are equal, even though the Defender will have +35% more damage with AM (5% difference in the buff values) and the solo bonus (30%). Difference in damage: 15.4%, leaning towards Corruptor.
The Defender gets a 30% resistance debuff, vs. a 22.5% resistance debuff for the Corruptor. This also applies to the final total. Difference in damage: 7.5%, leaning to Defender; overall at 6.9% leaning to the Corruptor.
The Defender gets 20% a resistance debuff per blast, compared to 15% for Corruptors. This means that per blast stacked, the Defender gains a 5% advantage on the Corruptor. Say that you run with 3 debuffs stacked most of the time - not hard to maintain - and the Defender takes the overall damage advantage of 3.1%, assuming both have the same +damage in each power.
Once Scourge kicks in, the Corruptor will do more damage per blast - and that matters more on AVs and GMs than on anything else in the game due to the large pool of hit points. But until Scourge kicks in, the Defender is going to do more damage against hard targets.
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Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
it has gone from unconscionable to downright appalling that we have no way of measuring our characters' wetness.
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Originally Posted by Brillig
It's hard to beat the entertainment value of Whackjob Wednesdays.
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Originally Posted by Siolfir
Corruptor damage modifier is 0.75, Defender is 0.65. Since these are multipliers, they act similarly to resistance debuffs and apply to the final, slotted damage with all +damage bonuses applied. We'll assume all of these are equal, even though the Defender will have +35% more damage with AM (5% difference in the buff values) and the solo bonus (30%). Difference in damage: 15.4%, leaning towards Corruptor.
The Defender gets a 30% resistance debuff, vs. a 22.5% resistance debuff for the Corruptor. This also applies to the final total. Difference in damage: 7.5%, leaning to Defender; overall at 6.9% leaning to the Defender. The Defender gets 20% a resistance debuff per blast, compared to 15% for Corruptors. This means that per blast stacked, the Defender gains a 5% advantage on the Corruptor. Say that you run with 3 debuffs stacked most of the time - not hard to maintain - and the Defender takes the overall damage advantage of 3.1%, assuming both have the same +damage in each power. Once Scourge kicks in, the Corruptor will do more damage per blast - and that matters more on AVs and GMs than on anything else in the game due to the large pool of hit points. But until Scourge kicks in, the Defender is going to do more damage against hard targets. |
So you're saying that once scourge kicks in, the Corr will pull ahead?
Got a rough idea about how much? (And thanks for the above by the way)
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I always forget about that buff defenders got. |
Originally Posted by Siolfir
and the solo bonus (30%)
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Nice numbers, Siolfir.
I still prefer to play Corrs, myself, but it is interesting to see this kind of break down.
City of Heroes was my first MMO, & my favorite computer game.
R.I.P.
Chyll - Bydand - Violynce - Enyrgos - Rylle - Nephryte - Solyd - Fettyr - Hyposhock - Styrling - Beryllos - Rosyc
Horryd - Myriam - Dysquiet - Ghyr
Vanysh - Eldrytch
Inflyct - Mysron - Orphyn - Dysmay - Reapyr - - Wyldeman - Hydeous
Thanks guys this has been extremely helpful. I'm still not positive what I want to do but I think I'm leaning Defender. Also I know nothing about Sonic Blast. Anyone have any pointers. I feel I don't see many builds with shout and I thought that would be a sure grab at first glance.
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Originally Posted by Crysys
Peacebringers at least got a recent overhaul. They moved up from sucktastic to craptacular.
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I'd lean towards the Defender myself.
I think Siolfir's numbers are off a bit somewhere. Here's what I come up with...
Def Dmg = 0.65 * (1 + 0.95 + 0.25 + 0.3) * (1 + 0.3 + 0.2 * 3) = 3.0875
That's the base multiplier times the enhancements plus buffs times the -Res effect.
Corr Dmg = 0.75 * (1 + 0.95 + 0.2) * (1 + 0.225 + 0.15 * 3) = 2.7009375
That's a 14.3% advantage to the Def without considering Scourge and giving the Defender the full Vigilance buff. In practice I find I get about an 11% damage buff from Scourge when solo'ing.
As for Scourge versus AVs... theoretically it should produce roughly a 22% buff to damage.
The best way I can think of to illustrate why this is the case is to use an analogy to a car trip where you speed up as you near your destination. What we're interested in is the trip time since we'll assume in both cases that you'll reach the end and therefore travel the same distance (i.e. do the same total amount of damage). It's the time that will vary in the DPS determination. We'll set the Corr's speed sans Scourge to a nominal 1. So the average speed with Scourge minus 1 will be the effective damage buff of Scourge.
Now, the speed one travels towards 0 HP for the foe depends upon your place in the trip. Up to half way it's 1. Over the last 10% it's 2. In between those two points it is 1 + 0.025 * (50% - distance from the finish expressed as a percentage). This is a linear equation, so the average speed for this segment is 1/2 of the sum of the speeds at the start and finish of the segment, or 1.5. So it takes us 0.5 / 1 + 0.4 / 1.5 + 0.1 / 2 = 81.67% of the time to finish as it would without Scourge. 1 / 0.8167 - 1 = +22.4%.
Note that I assumed the same total amount of damage in this. If your foe is Regenerating this assumption won't be true as shortening the trip time also reduces the total number of HP you have to do and so increases the value of Scourge. I also ignored the overkill effect that has a large impact on Scourge's effective damage buff when fighting foes with few HP and is why I get a much lower number in practice.
Kosmos
Global: @Calorie
MA Arcs in 4-star purgatory: Four in a Row (#2198) - Hostile Takeover (#69714) - Red Harvest (#268305)
Percentages and numbers aside, here's the question I'd answer:
Which set of powers do you want to get to first?
If you want the shields up as fast as possible, sonic dispersion, etc. go for the Defender. They'll have everything by 32 - and sometimes getting those powers faster is more important.
If you want all the blasts first, go corrupter. (And hope nobody needs Clarity before level 35.)
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That really is the best way to tackle the issue.
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Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
Percentages and numbers aside, here's the question I'd answer:
Which set of powers do you want to get to first? If you want the shields up as fast as possible, sonic dispersion, etc. go for the Defender. They'll have everything by 32 - and sometimes getting those powers faster is more important. If you want all the blasts first, go corrupter. (And hope nobody needs Clarity before level 35.) |
City of Heroes was my first MMO, & my favorite computer game.
R.I.P.
Chyll - Bydand - Violynce - Enyrgos - Rylle - Nephryte - Solyd - Fettyr - Hyposhock - Styrling - Beryllos - Rosyc
Horryd - Myriam - Dysquiet - Ghyr
Vanysh - Eldrytch
Inflyct - Mysron - Orphyn - Dysmay - Reapyr - - Wyldeman - Hydeous
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You've got it the wrong way round, Bill.|
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
Percentages and numbers aside, here's the question I'd answer:
Which set of powers do you want to get to first? If you want the shields up as fast as possible, sonic dispersion, etc. go for the Defender. They'll have everything by 32 - and sometimes getting those powers faster is more important. If you want all the blasts first, go corrupter. (And hope nobody needs Clarity before level 35.) |
They're asking about Rad Emission and Sonic Blast, not Rad Blast and Sonic Resonance.
The point about deciding whether you want the shooty shooty first or last stand though.
Warning:
The above post may contain Cynicism, sarcasm and/or pessimism. If you object to the quantities contained, then tough.
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You make a generally good point. However, he's looking at Sonic Blast, not Sonic Resonance, and both Sonic Blast and Rad Em are fast developing sets. Unless he wants something such as Choking Cloud early I don't see it as being a big deal. If he is worried about early development then the Defender is probably a better choice, as most of Sonic Blast's >L20 powers aren't great and are mitigation powers that a Rad Em Def can live without.
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Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
Percentages and numbers aside, here's the question I'd answer:
Which set of powers do you want to get to first? If you want the shields up as fast as possible, sonic dispersion, etc. go for the Defender. They'll have everything by 32 - and sometimes getting those powers faster is more important. If you want all the blasts first, go corrupter. (And hope nobody needs Clarity before level 35.) |
Kosmos
Global: @Calorie
MA Arcs in 4-star purgatory: Four in a Row (#2198) - Hostile Takeover (#69714) - Red Harvest (#268305)
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Agree. |
Originally Posted by Siolfir
Corruptor damage modifier is 0.75, Defender is 0.65. Since these are multipliers, they act similarly to resistance debuffs and apply to the final, slotted damage with all +damage bonuses applied. We'll assume all of these are equal, even though the Defender will have +35% more damage with AM (5% difference in the buff values) and the solo bonus (30%). Difference in damage: 15.4%, leaning towards Corruptor.
The Defender gets a 30% resistance debuff, vs. a 22.5% resistance debuff for the Corruptor. This also applies to the final total. Difference in damage: 7.5%, leaning to Defender; overall at 6.9% leaning to the Defender. The Defender gets 20% a resistance debuff per blast, compared to 15% for Corruptors. This means that per blast stacked, the Defender gains a 5% advantage on the Corruptor. Say that you run with 3 debuffs stacked most of the time - not hard to maintain - and the Defender takes the overall damage advantage of 3.1%, assuming both have the same +damage in each power. Once Scourge kicks in, the Corruptor will do more damage per blast - and that matters more on AVs and GMs than on anything else in the game due to the large pool of hit points. But until Scourge kicks in, the Defender is going to do more damage against hard targets. |
In regular content, Defender will out-damage but in the case of AV/GM, I think Corr eventually wins simply because scourge kicks in after 50% of health.
Rad/Sonic is the only Defender combo that I think it has a clear advantage over Corruptor in most cases but not by that much. You still should decide what you want first. Blast or Support.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
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Normally, the answer to "Defender or Corruptor" is Corruptor.|
Originally Posted by Energy_Blaze
Radiation Emission and Sonic Blast. Defender or Corruptor?
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But, there is an exception for any concept that has both -damage and -resist debuffs. Because -resist boosts the effectiveness of -damage on the debuffed target, the small improvements in Defender debuff values become more substantial.
Since your concept has quite a lot of -resist, and some -damage too, I recommend Defender.
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That's what I get for skimming |
Originally Posted by Canine
You've got it the wrong way round, Bill.
They're asking about Rad Emission and Sonic Blast, not Rad Blast and Sonic Resonance. The point about deciding whether you want the shooty shooty first or last stand though. |
OK, then - "How soon do you want to turn your dead teammates into bombs, 26 or 35?"
This is one of the few builds I'd go Defender over Corruptor.
[U][URL="http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=251594"][/URL][/U]
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I didn't do the math, but...|
Originally Posted by Deus_Otiosus
So you're saying that once scourge kicks in, the Corr will pull ahead?
Got a rough idea about how much? (And thanks for the above by the way) |
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Originally Posted by Kosmos
I'd lean towards the Defender myself.
I think Siolfir's numbers are off a bit somewhere. Here's what I come up with... Def Dmg = 0.65 * (1 + 0.95 + 0.25 + 0.3) * (1 + 0.3 + 0.2 * 3) = 3.0875 That's the base multiplier times the enhancements plus buffs times the -Res effect. Corr Dmg = 0.75 * (1 + 0.95 + 0.2) * (1 + 0.225 + 0.15 * 3) = 2.7009375 That's a 14.3% advantage to the Def without considering Scourge and giving the Defender the full Vigilance buff. In practice I find I get about an 11% damage buff from Scourge when solo'ing. |
That said, the Corruptor does have a few more hit points.
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Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
it has gone from unconscionable to downright appalling that we have no way of measuring our characters' wetness.
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Originally Posted by Brillig
It's hard to beat the entertainment value of Whackjob Wednesdays.
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Well glad I found this thread, since I was hesitating between a sonic/dark corruptor or a dark/sonic defender. Looks like my defendery choice was sound. :-p
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Who would do such a thing? Treat one's teammates like so much cannon fodder, use them in such a selfish and destructive way???|
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
That's what I get for skimming
OK, then - "How soon do you want to turn your dead teammates into bombs, 26 or 35?" |
Oh yeah, I do that...
And it's loads of fun!
Arc #6015 - Coming Unglued
"A good n00b-sauce is based on a good n00b-roux." - The Masque
Radiation Emission and Sonic Blast. Defender or Corruptor?
Discuss. Thanks.