Why?
Doesn't take that long to get to 20, and then that change opens up for you.
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After 22 missions that dont fit character concept. Its not super difficult, I would just prefer not to soil my characters reputation with morality missions.
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Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
Why?
Doesn't take that long to get to 20, and then that change opens up for you. |
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Originally Posted by Mr_Kingkillaha
After 22 missions that dont fit character concept. Its not super difficult, I would just prefer not to soil my characters reputation with morality missions.
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Do I understand you correctly?
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From that pic, I dont think so. An alignment change is less significant than a respec, and they give those to us for free all the time. With a major game change, why not give a simple fix for the characters that have already been created?|
Originally Posted by je_saist
Do I understand you correctly? |
I dunno, I am going to delete my lowbie future heroes and re-roll them. Just though I could make the suggestion.
According to the Devs, an alignment change is rather significant. That's why there are limits on how many tip missions you can get credit for in a certain timespan. That's why there are multiple tip missions and an alignment mission required to make a shift halfway from villain to hero or hero to villain. Whereas a respec requires one mission to accomplish, and it's not really that difficult of a mission anymore. That's a huge difference in time investment alone.
As for the granted respecs, they only grant free respecs either through Veteran Rewards (significant time investment) or changes to powers that are significant enough to warrant a freespec.
The Devs have stated in the past that they don't want alignment changes to be akin to flipping a light switch, so I doubt that we'll see any alignment shifts as easy as you want it (a 1 time power usage).
If the game spit out 20 dollar bills people would complain that they weren't sequentially numbered. If they were sequentially numbered people would complain that they weren't random enough.
Black Pebble is my new hero.
I don't necessarily like this idea. I see where you're coming from, and trust me, I have a couple of characters who do not need 10 missions to discover that they want to become a vigilante...
That being said, I understand why the Devs did it this way, and considering it only takes 2 days to go from one alignment to another, I don't think it is that bad.
What I would like to see is the ability to start off as a Vigilante or Rogue (in addition to Hero or Villain) from level 1. With the new tutorial bringing the opportunity to start any regular AT on either side, I would love to see the middle alignments be available as well.
@Winter. Because I'm Winter. Period.
I am a blaster first, and an alt-oholic second.
once i21 is here it wont really be relevant anyway since upon finishing the tutorial we will be able to choose if we want to go red or blue
so if you want to make hero ATs on redside, either PL them to 20 for alignment mishs or just wait till i21 and then roll them as fresh villains
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And the devs disagree with you. They have flat out told us that an alignment change is indeed a significant change in a characters development and they deliberately chose this method to illustrate it.|
Originally Posted by Mr_Kingkillaha
An alignment change is less significant than a respec,
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| and they give those to us for free all the time. |
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| With a major game change, why not give a simple fix for the characters that have already been created? |
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| I dunno, I am going to delete my lowbie future heroes and re-roll them. Just though I could make the suggestion. |
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Are you for real? Rolling the characters as villains and doing the villainside content is fine, but missions that have you actually choosing to NOT be the bad guy are out of character?|
Originally Posted by Mr_Kingkillaha
After 22 missions that dont fit character concept. Its not super difficult, I would just prefer not to soil my characters reputation with morality missions.
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Seriously, that doesn't make any sense.
Issue 16 made me feel like this.
Warning: This poster likes to play Devil's Advocate.
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Making corruptors/brutes/doms available on heroside seems pretty big to me. I understand that they dont want people switching back and forth, but I think this is different. For example: I have a corruptor that I managed to drag to lvl17. After I hit 20 I could spend ~1 hour a day for four days switching her to hero side. Or I could just delete her and re roll, then get back to 17 in less time than it would take to switch sides. Im already changing alignment in 1 day against the devs wishes, but it is still inconvenient for me.|
Originally Posted by Texas Justice
....
As for the granted respecs, they only grant free respecs either through Veteran Rewards (significant time investment) or changes to powers that are significant enough to warrant a freespec. The Devs have stated in the past that they don't want alignment changes to be akin to flipping a light switch, so I doubt that we'll see any alignment shifts as easy as you want it (a 1 time power usage). |
The way I see it, Im not really switching alignments. Im bringing my old character inline with the new gameplan. They gave me a free respec when stamina went inherent so I could update my character to the new game without putting extra effort in. Now I think it would be nice if they let me make my character be a hero retroactively.
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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
And the devs disagree with you. They have flat out told us that an alignment change is indeed a significant change in a characters development and they deliberately chose this method to illustrate it.
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Originally Posted by Vanden
Are you for real? Rolling the characters as villains and doing the villainside content is fine, but missions that have you actually choosing to NOT be the bad guy are out of character?
Seriously, that doesn't make any sense. |
I am certainly planning to delete my lower level red side heroes and making them on blue side because it will be faster. If some kind dev actually reads the forums and lets me "respec" my alignment it would just be a bonus.
If you want a Corruptor on hero side (going by the example above), you could just roll it as a Praetorian, get to 20 (As you said, in one day's time, though it took my Dominator a lot longer because Praetoria is just SO BORING to me), and go through the Hero-side portal.
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And you are wrong. We've had the ability to make heroic level 1 Corr/Brute/Doms for a year now.|
Originally Posted by Mr_Kingkillaha
Making corruptors/brutes/doms available on heroside seems pretty big to me.
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| I understand that they dont want people switching back and forth, but I think this is different. |
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| I have a corruptor that I managed to drag to lvl17. After I hit 20 I could spend ~1 hour a day for four days switching her to hero side. Or I could just delete her and re roll, then get back to 17 in less time than it would take to switch sides. |
The "problem" exists between your chair and your keyboard. The devs aren't responsible for "fixing" your hangups.
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| Im already changing alignment in 1 day against the devs wishes, but it is still inconvenient for me. |
All deleting does is remove the character from your character list and flag the name as free to use. At worst you'll get a free name change token when the character is restored.
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| The way I see it, Im not really switching alignments. Im bringing my old character inline with the new gameplan. |
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| They gave me a free respec when stamina went inherent so I could update my character to the new game without putting extra effort in. Now I think it would be nice if they let me make my character be a hero retroactively. |
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| The character development is the part I disagree with. I have heroes that fight crime in the rogue isles, because the game forced me to make them there. In the future that wont be forced, and I think it would be nice not to change their alignment through a series of choices, but to fix their alignment to what it actually is and what the game will be allowing for any lvl 1 character. |
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| My red side heroes either street hunt or play AE up to 20. Then the alignment missions reference how evil they used to be. lol that makes sense. |
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| I am certainly planning to delete my lower level red side heroes and making them on blue side because it will be faster. If some kind dev actually reads the forums and lets me "respec" my alignment it would just be a bonus. |
Normally I'd agree, but try as I might, I can't actually find any sympathy here, and for a simple reason: You chose to make your characters villains when they were supposed to be heroes. Once you make that choice, you can't really double back and say you don't like it. If you didn't like the choice, you shouldn't have made it at all, and if you resolved to make it, you will have to stick with it to the end.
Either that, or simply reroll. It's what I'll be doing. The options are there and, for the most part, there is no real "wrong" option. I'd be in favour of a "simpler" option if I felt it was warranted, but in this case the people whom this would affect should have accepted their choices when they made them.
This, to me, is kind of like asking for a powerset respec, not in that it's overpowered or anything of the sort, but simply in the sense that when new options appear, the game really isn't indebted to retrofit old characters into the new possibilities. It already gives tools enough to do what you want, so really, just use those. Swap sides or reroll. You should have seen that coming, and neither is a painful option.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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No, You aren't changing alignment in one day. You are creating a totally new character that may have the same name. It certainly isn't the same archetype and doesn't have exactly the same powers (unless you create it in Praetoria). And if you do create it in Praetoria, it isn't even from this universe/dimension/planet/however you want to define the CoH designe. |
Originally Posted by Mr_Kingkillaha
Making corruptors/brutes/doms available on heroside seems pretty big to me. I understand that they dont want people switching back and forth, but I think this is different. For example: I have a corruptor that I managed to drag to lvl17. After I hit 20 I could spend ~1 hour a day for four days switching her to hero side. Or I could just delete her and re roll, then get back to 17 in less time than it would take to switch sides. Im already changing alignment in 1 day against the devs wishes, but it is still inconvenient for me.
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Changing alignment doesn't change what the character has done in the past or what they've experienced. It builds on the past and those experiences. When you roll a new character they do not have that history and they have not experience the things the previous character had done.
Not at all the same thing.
If the game spit out 20 dollar bills people would complain that they weren't sequentially numbered. If they were sequentially numbered people would complain that they weren't random enough.
Black Pebble is my new hero.
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Im not sure we are in the same thread anymore. It takes a minimum of 4 days to switch alignments (after I hit 20). I can level from 1~17 (on any faction) in a day if I wanted. I didnt say anything about different factions leveling differently. At all. I am comparing switching alignment vs re-rolling. |
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Once again you are wrong. There are no game mechanics that make leveling to 20 take longer based on faction. Hero's, Villains, and Praetorians all level at the same speed. The concept that a Villain takes longer is a figment of your imagination and playstyle. If it takes longer to level a villain it's because you chose to take longer.
The "problem" exists between your chair and your keyboard. The devs aren't responsible for "fixing" your hangups. |
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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
You chose to make a villain.
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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Your having a hissyfit
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I chose my powers to fit a concept, it is just unfortunate that I chose them before i21.|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
Normally I'd agree, but try as I might, I can't actually find any sympathy here, and for a simple reason: You chose to make your characters villains when they were supposed to be heroes. Once you make that choice, you can't really double back and say you don't like it. If you didn't like the choice, you shouldn't have made it at all, and if you resolved to make it, you will have to stick with it to the end.
Either that, or simply reroll. It's what I'll be doing. The options are there and, for the most part, there is no real "wrong" option. I'd be in favour of a "simpler" option if I felt it was warranted, but in this case the people whom this would affect should have accepted their choices when they made them. |
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
This, to me, is kind of like asking for a powerset respec, not in that it's overpowered or anything of the sort, but simply in the sense that when new options appear, the game really isn't indebted to retrofit old characters into the new possibilities. It already gives tools enough to do what you want, so really, just use those. Swap sides or reroll. You should have seen that coming, and neither is a painful option.
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Actually, it will in i21. I will have lvl 1 doms, brutes, and corrs running all over Atlas park saving puppies and helping old ladies cross the street.|
Originally Posted by Texas Justice
It certainly isn't the same archetype and doesn't have exactly the same powers (unless you create it in Praetoria).
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Originally Posted by Texas Justice
Changing alignment doesn't change what the character has done in the past or what they've experienced. It builds on the past and those experiences. When you roll a new character they do not have that history and they have not experience the things the previous character had done.
Not at all the same thing. |
Wow. Did no one read Kingkillaha's posts at all, because as of yet, no one has responded to what he's actually talking about.
I'm not sure I like the idea of a one time alignment change, but I see the argument that is being made here. I have definitely wanted to make Heroic Corruptors/Dom/MM/etc. but as of yet have not been able to. (PRIMAL Heroic Corr/Dom/Etc.) And as such, I haven't, because I feel the same way Kingkillaha does about his characters. If my guy is supposed to be a Hero, I don't want him robbing banks and kidnapping politicians.
But if I had created a character that grew up in the AE, I really would love an option to just make him a Hero immediately, without having to go through all the "I'm going to steal from this guy, but maybe I end up saving his life while I do it" stuff. I derive a great deal of fun from this game via my character stories, not just the mechanics.
Again, I understand the Dev's reasoning behind alignment changes, and even agree with it. Even so, I think an alignment change token wouldn't be THAT far out of the realm of acceptable options. Sure, there should be limits, like only two characters can use it, but I think the concept is fairly sound and interesting.
On a side note: when did arguments such as "You're having a hissyfit, quit whining." and "The dev's said so, deal with it." become valid? Especially in regards to someone who is calmly presenting an idea they thought of, and simply asking for a bit of discussion. Not productive.
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Yes you did.|
Originally Posted by Mr_Kingkillaha
Im not sure we are in the same thread anymore. It takes a minimum of 4 days to switch alignments (after I hit 20). I can level from 1~17 (on any faction) in a day if I wanted. I didnt say anything about different factions leveling differently. At all.
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| Or I could just delete her and re roll, then get back to 17 in less time than it would take to switch sides. |
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| I am comparing switching alignment vs re-rolling. |
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| No I chose my powers, the game made me a villain. |
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| lol I just made a suggestion and am now defending it because that is what this board is for IMO. |
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| You are the one getting all combative over something that doesn't even affect anyone yet. |
Maybe they should throw an alignment change token in as a bonus with a certain size transaction once the a la carte pricing for optional stuff takes effect. I mean, you always get a free alignment if you buy all four tires, right? <rimshot!>
--CP
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Didn't see anyone call the OP a whiner, and as to "The dev's said so, deal with it." Well that has always been valid. They have the ultimate veto power, and they are well within their rights to use it. Passing on information about what the devs have told us doesn't make anyone a bad person for doing it.
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Originally Posted by O_MegaMan
On a side note: when did arguments such as "You're having a hissyfit, quit whining." and "The dev's said so, deal with it." become valid? Especially in regards to someone who is calmly presenting an idea they thought of, and simply asking for a bit of discussion. Not productive.
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Nice. |
Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
Maybe they should throw an alignment change token in as a bonus with a certain size transaction once the a la carte pricing for optional stuff takes effect. I mean, you always get a free alignment if you buy all four tires, right? <rimshot!>
--CP |
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No, he didn't. He stated that while taking a Villain to Hero via the alignment system can't be done in less than 4 days, re-rolling that character, and leveling them back up to Level 20 or so can be done in a matter of hours. The assertion there was simply that a one-time use alignment token would be more convenient than those two options. At no point in time did the OP say anything that could possibly be misconstrued as saying that a particular faction levels more quickly than another.|
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Yes you did.
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| And the conclusions you are making from the comparison are incorrect. |
Sure, it's not the same character from a computer data standpoint, but if said character has the same name, powers, and costume, then for all intents and purposes, you've just changed alignments in less than the designed time period.
If such a circumvention is totally acceptable now, then what problems do an Alignment Change Token present?
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No what he actually said was|
Originally Posted by O_MegaMan
No, he didn't. He stated that while taking a Villain to Hero via the alignment system can't be done in less than 4 days, re-rolling that character, and leveling them back up to Level 20 or so can be done in a matter of hours. The assertion there was simply that a one-time use alignment token would be more convenient than those two options. At no point in time did the OP say anything that could possibly be misconstrued as saying that a particular faction levels more quickly than another.
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| After I hit 20 I could spend ~1 hour a day for four days switching her to hero side. Or I could just delete her and re roll, then get back to 17 in less time than it would take to switch sides. |
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| How so? The argument against Alignment Change Tokens, so far from what I've gathered, is simply that the Dev's want us to utilize the Alignment system as it's been designed, and that awarding quick change tokens will circumvent that process. |
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| However, deleting, and re-rolling a character with a different alignment, and achieving a similar level in less time than it would take to play through the alignment system as designed sounds like a circumvention to me. |
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| Sure, it's not the same character from a computer data standpoint, but if said character has the same name, powers, and costume, then for all intents and purposes, you've just changed alignments in less than the designed time period. |
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| If such a circumvention is totally acceptable now, then what problems do an Alignment Change Token present? |
Placing a bid for 2 billion inf on an item in the market that doesn't exist so you can get around the inf cap is a circumvention.
Using alts as storage mules is a circumvention.
Using two accounts to invite your alts to a solo SG is a circumvention.
...would be awesome when all ATs are available for heroes and villains. Just saying, I have a pile of heroes below level 20 that are stuck in the Rogue Isles that I dont want to re-roll (but I will since it will be easier).
No merits or anything, just a 1 time use power similar to a vet respec or something.