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I love the fact that it is melee centric (especially since blasters are a ranged damage/melee damage concept). However, I am surprised that there are actually no Dark Miasma powers or anything even resembling one in Dark Manipulation since they mentioned it in the Informer (technically one could say Dark Blast has one power from Miasma, the ranged single target hold).|
Originally Posted by Eldagore
Barf. I was really, really hoping against odds for a non blap centered set. At least shadow maul is there instead of having shadow punch. When the teaser mentioned dark armor and dark miasma, i was hoping for more of those and less dark melee though, anything besides a dmg aura and blaps would have made for a more outside the box set.
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That being said, perhaps I should apologize a bit for my tone to Zombie Man. It does seem possible that Penumbral Grasp could mimic Twilight Grasp and may have additional properties beyond just an immob and damage. I was picturing Gravimetric Snare, but the naming convention does have more in common with the Dark Miasma power, in hindsight. I jumped the gun and allowed my preformed notions to influence my attitude. I am sorry.
Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
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Totally agree...|
Originally Posted by Eldagore
Barf. I was really, really hoping against odds for a non blap centered set. At least shadow maul is there instead of having shadow punch. When the teaser mentioned dark armor and dark miasma, i was hoping for more of those and less dark melee though, anything besides a dmg aura and blaps would have made for a more outside the box set. Heres a few powers i would sub in for almost anything here....
Siphon life- a blap, but a blap with a purpose besides damage. a blaster with a self heal outside of the medicine pool would be nice. I am looking forward to life drain because of this. In the case of this "beta" I would drop it in instead of midnight grasp. Howling twilight.... possibly modified for self only. how awsome would it be to have a self rez besides rise of the pheonix? Would free up choices for the pooles in the end game. Soul transfer....same as above opressive gloom, cloak of fear.... I actually thought these had a good chance, like world of confusion but fear or stun instead of confuse. And of course cloak of darkness. i thought this had a good chance too. Oh well. At least the "beta" of dark blast looks fun. Dark/energy it is! Man I wish they had put one of the rez powers in. Blasters would get so much use out of them. |
And...Where is Shadow Cloak? A dark stealth power was the BIG take for DM...Now I'm looking at Dark/Energy...At least I will have Build Up and don't have to Mob surf to get a damage buff..
Not your best effort DEVs, I'm kind of NOT looking forward to this now...
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Oppressive Gloom is NOT going to happen. |
Originally Posted by Eldagore
opressive gloom, cloak of fear.... I actually thought these had a good chance, like world of confusion but fear or stun instead of confuse.
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I was wrong about both Tenebrous Tentacles and Life Drain, I freely admit that.
But, Oppressive Gloom is also in Soul Mastery.
There is flat out no way in HELL the devs are going to let us stack 2 copies of Oppressive Gloom and stun bosses just by standing next to them.
Cloak of Fear could have been interesting, but if it were ported unchanged from the Dark Armor version, I would be very unhappy with it. Do you really WANT a power that costs that much end to run and only has an accuracy of a little over 50%? (as opposed to the usual 75%) You have to at least 4 slot the power before you can even USE it as it stands now. They'd be doing us a disservice if they gave us that power unchanged.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
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You can't replace Midnight Grasp with Siphon Life! Midnight Grasp is more tentacles!|
Originally Posted by Eldagore
Barf. I was really, really hoping against odds for a non blap centered set. At least shadow maul is there instead of having shadow punch. When the teaser mentioned dark armor and dark miasma, i was hoping for more of those and less dark melee though, anything besides a dmg aura and blaps would have made for a more outside the box set. Heres a few powers i would sub in for almost anything here....
Siphon life- a blap, but a blap with a purpose besides damage. a blaster with a self heal outside of the medicine pool would be nice. I am looking forward to life drain because of this. In the case of this "beta" I would drop it in instead of midnight grasp. Howling twilight.... possibly modified for self only. how awsome would it be to have a self rez besides rise of the pheonix? Would free up choices for the pooles in the end game. Soul transfer....same as above opressive gloom, cloak of fear.... I actually thought these had a good chance, like world of confusion but fear or stun instead of confuse. And of course cloak of darkness. i thought this had a good chance too. Oh well. At least the "beta" of dark blast looks fun. Dark/energy it is! Man I wish they had put one of the rez powers in. Blasters would get so much use out of them. |
They probably don't want to give Blasters access to two self rezs.
Though I still think something needs to be taken out for Cloak of Darkness! Or a Stealth Power of some sort! Dark/Dark combos should have access to a stealth power!
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I am a bit disappointed at the lack of Cloak, and I find it odd they would specifically mention it having powers from Dark Miasma when it doesn't (leftover from a previous alpha/beta build maybe?).
All in all it looks decent enough, but not spectacular.
I am betting on Penumbral Grasp being a generic single target immobilize though.
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Other than a few small issues, it looks like it would be a fun set.|
Originally Posted by Dr_Darkspeed
From the Facebook Friday thing about Powerset proliferation, here is the current list of powers for Dark Manipulation in Beta (and hance, subject to change):
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Even though it is a blapper-oriented set, I like Build Up over Soul Drain for Blasters. This lets them get their buff going and at least have a ranged option while still staying at range or the opening salvo. Touch of Fear looks like an oddball, seeing as how Dark Blast will have Abyssal Gaze (a ST hold) and Soul Mastery has have Soul Storm (another ST hold). Also, but this is a matter of preference, I think Siphon Life would have been just as awesome a t9 as Midnight Grasp (as well as continuing a vampiric theme). With Life Drain in Dark Blast, as well as a Resist-based shield in Soul Mastery, I could see how it was left out.
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Since they are also working on Dark Control and Dark Miasma for controllers as part of all the Dark proliferation, it may just be that it was mentioned due to that. It is also possible that Penumbral Grasp has a basis in Twilight Grasp, instead of just being a generic Immob (and really, all the Manipulation immobs have special stuff, so it is not really proper for us to call them generic anyway |
Originally Posted by Oathbound
I am a bit disappointed at the lack of Cloak, and I find it odd they would specifically mention it having powers from Dark Miasma when it doesn't (leftover from a previous alpha/beta build maybe?).
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).
Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
Quote:
Eh. I'm highly skeptical of it having anything to do with Twilight Grasp instead of just being "Ranged Midnight Grasp" with damage/recharge tweaked to fill in as a Blaster T1.|
Originally Posted by StratoNexus
Since they are also working on Dark Control and Dark Miasma for controllers as part of all the Dark proliferation, it may just be that it was mentioned due to that. It is also possible that Penumbral Grasp has a basis in Twilight Grasp, instead of just being a generic Immob (and really, all the Manipulation immobs have special stuff, so it is not really proper for us to call them generic anyway
). |
As far as "generic" goes... really Blaster immobilizes are generic enough for me to believe the word is fitting. There are exceptions sure but they're SO similar in design and use as to be essentially interchangeable. IMO.
@Oathbound & @Oathbound Too
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I have the same belief, but I just felt I should not present it as fact yet (not saying you did; I was at fault, my tone earlier was a bit too haughty).|
Originally Posted by Oathbound
Eh. I'm highly skeptical of it having anything to do with Twilight Grasp instead of just being "Ranged Midnight Grasp" with damage/recharge tweaked to fill in as a Blaster T1.
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Originally Posted by Oathbound
As far as "generic" goes... really Blaster immobilizes are generic enough for me to believe the word is fitting. There are exceptions sure but they're SO similar in design and use as to be essentially interchangeable. IMO.
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Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
Quote:
I too am dissapointed that it is lacking a Stealth of some sort. I also personally would have prefereed shadow punch and smite, rather then smite and shadow maul (I just really hate the arm flailing animation). |
Originally Posted by Oathbound
I am a bit disappointed at the lack of Cloak, and I find it odd they would specifically mention it having powers from Dark Miasma when it doesn't (leftover from a previous alpha/beta build maybe?).
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I'm personally wondering if the Dark Miasma was a typo, and it should have read Dark Melee for the Dark Manipulation powers.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Sure, the devs are supposed to listen to their customers, mister business 101 out there. And if I decide to start suggesting that the devs change the game from being about superheroes and supervillains to being about clowns that is my right as well, and technically Paragon Studios is supposed to pay attention to me. But I hope strongly that they assume a meth-head somehow managed to hack into my forum account and make paper airplanes out of my posts, because I hope they recognize stupid when they see it. I assume they will recognize futile just as accurately.
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Soul Drain is a melee-only buff. Doesn't fit any Blasters unless you are giving them Integration along with it. lol. You could use it before you used a nuke power on a group, otherwise it's either feeble or you faceplant.
I suppose some players want the enormous nuke buff and would accept the tradeoff of no damage buff in non-nuke situations. And I thought it was supposed to be like Dark Miasma with a few attacks from Dark Melee, but only one Dark Miasma power? I think I'll pass, because this is nothing new, being too much like other blaster secondaries.
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"I did not say this. I am not here." -Guild Navigator
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The short answer to the cloak of fear question? Yes!|
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
Oppressive Gloom is NOT going to happen.
I was wrong about both Tenebrous Tentacles and Life Drain, I freely admit that. But, Oppressive Gloom is also in Soul Mastery. There is flat out no way in HELL the devs are going to let us stack 2 copies of Oppressive Gloom and stun bosses just by standing next to them. Cloak of Fear could have been interesting, but if it were ported unchanged from the Dark Armor version, I would be very unhappy with it. Do you really WANT a power that costs that much end to run and only has an accuracy of a little over 50%? (as opposed to the usual 75%) You have to at least 4 slot the power before you can even USE it as it stands now. They'd be doing us a disservice if they gave us that power unchanged. |
The long answer....
Yeah, the power is probably one of the more oft skipped ones from dark armor. But it has as much to do with oppressive gloom being much more reliable, and the fact it conflicts with the dmg aura that dark armor characters can make good use of. A blaster on the other hand, could make wondrous use of a fear aura. In particular, mental blast- because of it's mega single target nature. Ice blast would also be a real solid partner for it. Sonic, energy blast, even a single target archery build would also work. The power takes slotting, but a blaster would get enormous use of the power compared to armor AT's because, well, frankly blasters dont get "normal" mitigation. Goofy soft control auras/powers are the norm. I would roll an Ice/dark blaster in a heart beat if it had cloak of fear.
Anyway, the more I think about it, the more I am sure I will skip dark manipulation if it stays as is. It looks like a solid blapper build set, but i dont make blappers, I make brutes they are more effective in the role.
KNow what the best thing they could do for manipulation sets....and blasters...would be? Set them up like kheldian sets and offer both "blaps" and "bag of tricks" powers alongside each other so everyone is happy. Team players could take "crazy murder damage" blaps etc, and solo players could take bag of tricks powers to help them survive.
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I could easily see a cloaking power in the dark manip set. It would make sense considering the ONLY blaster secondary that has a cloaking power is devices. The playing field would be a bit more even if you wanted a good stealth power without the ball-and-chain most players call the devices set!
I think the proposed powers shown look good. If you want a dark set to look like a trolled than go roll one. Judas the crying about blasters and melee in sets is sad. Who wants to "always" be in range; that's the blessing of blasters is that they can get both range and melee. I can't wait for issue 21 to drop because this blaster set looks to be fun!
This 2ndary will be literally the only real alternative to Mental Manipulation. For those not in the KNOW MM is the only real blaster 2ndary worth having as it not only includes powerful attacks of the least resisted dmg type in the game, but powerful self healing/end recov along with very useful control effects to further mitigate aggression.
Currently I saw Only Sonic,Psi,and Rad as the very best options for blaster primes. A sonic/mental was pretty much without equal but now i see a time coming when dark/mental and sonic/dark become the two king blaster combos.
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I really wish people would stop saying this, because it's not true.
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Originally Posted by Demetrios Vasilikos
of the least resisted dmg type in the game
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@Oathbound & @Oathbound Too
I like the set ups they've revealed for these sets. I think it is probably rather optimistic to expect a self heal from the single target immob in Dark Manip though. I'm expecting a single target tenebrous tentacles.
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I agree that dark combos should have a stealth power available. I'm disappointed this is not the case with Dark Manipulation.
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Now I love mental manipulation, and will recommend it to any and everyone, but i would hardly call it the only viable blaster secondary. Each 2ndary its own strengths and weeknesses, but a lack of viability is far from true.
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Originally Posted by Demetrios Vasilikos
This 2ndary will be literally the only real alternative to Mental Manipulation. For those not in the KNOW MM is the only real blaster 2ndary worth having as it not only includes powerful attacks of the least resisted dmg type in the game, but powerful self healing/end recov along with very useful control effects to further mitigate aggression.
Currently I saw Only Sonic,Psi,and Rad as the very best options for blaster primes. A sonic/mental was pretty much without equal but now i see a time coming when dark/mental and sonic/dark become the two king blaster combos. |
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Sure, the devs are supposed to listen to their customers, mister business 101 out there. And if I decide to start suggesting that the devs change the game from being about superheroes and supervillains to being about clowns that is my right as well, and technically Paragon Studios is supposed to pay attention to me. But I hope strongly that they assume a meth-head somehow managed to hack into my forum account and make paper airplanes out of my posts, because I hope they recognize stupid when they see it. I assume they will recognize futile just as accurately.
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im going to have to wait until lvl 47 for this i think but here goes my Fire/Dark Blaster....Aim..Soul tentacles..night fall...RoF..."Teleport" into melee (i do come from the darkside) Dark Pit with Oppressive gloom on for CC. Soul Drain...clean up with Blaze, midnight grasp and fireball. Dark Consume when needed. The alpha attacks miss out on soul drain but im not complaining...I do vote for shadow cloak over death shroud though. 8-)
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On one hand, I was glad there was no Tar Patch. On the other hand, I really, really wanted it. :P Tar Patch + Blaster's Rain of Fire = Dead things.
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Corruptor Rain of Fire is more powerful than the blaster version and you can pair it with Tar Patch, in case you haven't already created one, I recommend a Fire/Dark corruptor, they make Dead Things.
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Originally Posted by TheCrazyCapybara
On one hand, I was glad there was no Tar Patch. On the other hand, I really, really wanted it. :P Tar Patch + Blaster's Rain of Fire = Dead things.
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Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
Personally I'd like to see cloak of darkness in there somewhere, it'd make getting into a spawn to use soul drain less suicidal.
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I have to agree with everyone else who disagrees with this statement. MM is a good secondary, on par with Energy in my opinion, and Fire is a pretty nice set too, even though it doesn't keep you alive in quite the same way.|
Originally Posted by Demetrios Vasilikos
This 2ndary will be literally the only real alternative to Mental Manipulation. For those not in the KNOW MM is the only real blaster 2ndary worth having as it not only includes powerful attacks of the least resisted dmg type in the game, but powerful self healing/end recov along with very useful control effects to further mitigate aggression.
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EDIT: the more I think about it, the more delicious it sounds to go dark/fire with those tentacles and burn. There is no fear in burn, but it seems there is an avoidance code still in there for the AI and tentacles will take care of that. Dark Manip so far does not look like something I would ever take on any build, even though I mourn the loss of dark pit.
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Siphon life- a blap, but a blap with a purpose besides damage. a blaster with a self heal outside of the medicine pool would be nice. I am looking forward to life drain because of this. In the case of this "beta" I would drop it in instead of midnight grasp.
Howling twilight.... possibly modified for self only. how awsome would it be to have a self rez besides rise of the pheonix? Would free up choices for the pooles in the end game.
Soul transfer....same as above
opressive gloom, cloak of fear.... I actually thought these had a good chance, like world of confusion but fear or stun instead of confuse.
And of course cloak of darkness. i thought this had a good chance too.
Oh well. At least the "beta" of dark blast looks fun. Dark/energy it is! Man I wish they had put one of the rez powers in. Blasters would get so much use out of them.
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