City of Heroes Legacy Updater no longer in use from August 4
By
Acemace,
Posted on: 2011-07-14 10:08 in News, Events and Announcement Discussion
IE9 was the version that got me to switch to a different browser.
Admittedly, it was 50% because I don't like the way Microsoft is changing the user interfaces for everything (I run absolutely everything that will give me the option in "classic" mode) and 50% because it was rendering webpages incorrectly on my second monitor while I played CoH on my primary screen--every time I switched back to the game, it would suddenly display what I was viewing 2-3 pages prior.
I'm now using Chrome. The user interface still bugs me, but at least it bugs me less than the IE9 interface AND it shows me what I want to be looking at on my second monitor.
Main Hero: Chad Gulzow-Man (Victory) 50, 1396 Badges
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Mission Architect arcs: Doctor Brainstorm's An Experiment Gone Awry, Arc ID 2093
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Originally Posted by Nethergoat
it's NEVER too late to pad your /ignore list!
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Heh, no offense, but I'm well beyond needing that particular bit explained to me. I've used many over the years. Most libraries you can use with them for Windows, however, are not especially friendly to anything most developers would consider cross-platform C++ development. By which I mean if you took your core business logic code and wrote it, say, on Mac or Linux, and then tried to fire it up in a Windows-based GUI-building + coding interface like Visual Studio and use that tool to attach a Windows UI, the results would be ugly. And I don't mean the UI would be ugly.|
Originally Posted by CuppaManga
Wikipedia once again has a short article explaining Graphic User Interface builders and what their basic purpose is, as well as links to several kinds:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graphic...erface_builder |
C++ Builder might come with libraries like what I'm talking about, but it's not clear to me that it would actually make the port of the Mac installer any easier - unless it compiles for Mac and lets you sub the Cocoa APIs for its own. From that the main page says, it's a Windows app builder, so I'm not sure it actually helps.
Even if NCSoft could lay hands on a good set of UI libraries, unless those libraries themselves were cross platform on Mac and Windows, someone would still need to write a platform specific UI abstraction layer, to absorb the widget API differences between Cocoa and Windows UI libs and APIs. That's typical of any cross-platform binary application, though.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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Yes, that is where they would go.
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Originally Posted by BeastMan
Ok so I dual box on my rig and use the command line after the direct link to coh.exe -uskin 2 -proeject coh -fullscreen 0 -maxactivefps 2
Would I place this in the extra command parameters of the ncsoft launcher for city of heroes? Man if that doesn't work ncsoft will have to kiss my other accts sub goodbye. |
If the game spit out 20 dollar bills people would complain that they weren't sequentially numbered. If they were sequentially numbered people would complain that they weren't random enough.
Black Pebble is my new hero.
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I think I know what you mean now. The libraries (and header files) are easy to swap out and link into the application. The user interface elements can be re-created fairly easily since they're simple - not custom (the proof of that is the Windows Launcher has been mostly duplicated in the Mac counterpart). By no means is the initial port from Mac to Windows a simple re-compile, but it's not difficult either - maybe a 5 on a scale of 1 to 10.|
Originally Posted by UberGuy
C++ Builder might come with libraries like what I'm talking about, but it's not clear to me that it would actually make the port of the Mac installer any easier - unless it compiles for Mac and lets you sub the Cocoa APIs for its own. From that the main page says, it's a Windows app builder, so I'm not sure it actually helps.
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But then that's when the real value of it shines through - because instead of having two very different code bases, you'd have a partially merged single one. The user interface parts will be separate, but how often does that really change? Those parts that handle server communication and game patching would all be shared.
Manga @ Triumph
"Meanwhile In The Halls Of Titan"...Titan Network Working To Save City Of Heroes
Save Paragon City! Efforts Coordination
Something else to consider - isn't this the "NCSoft" launcher, and not the "CoH" launcher? That's what I got from forum discussions about it when it came out, and really just from its interface.
I don't own any other NCSoft games, but if this is a unified launcher used across their games, then it's probably not written by Paragon Studios at all.
Is the Mac version also a universal NCSoft launcher, or just a CoH one? (I have no idea what other NCSoft titles might run on a Mac.)
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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Right, but then, if it's not going to change, what's cheaper and faster? Getting a cross-OS-pollinated development team who can engineer that 5-out-of-10 initial dual-OS build, or building two (probably smaller) teams of straws from the haystack full of developers who can hammer out two platform specific versions?|
Originally Posted by CuppaManga
I think I know what you mean now. The libraries (and header files) are easy to swap out and link into the application. The user interface elements can be re-created fairly easily since they're simple - not custom (the proof of that is the Windows Launcher has been mostly duplicated in the Mac counterpart). By no means is the initial port from Mac to Windows a simple re-compile, but it's not difficult either - maybe a 5 on a scale of 1 to 10.
But then that's when the real value of it shines through - because instead of having two very different code bases, you'd have a partially merged single one. The user interface parts will be separate, but how often does that really change? Those parts that handle server communication and game patching would all be shared. |
My guess is that the platform-specific ones look a lot cheaper, especially in the short term. And even if it's only cheaper in the short term, I find it's often hard to sell the strategic, long term solution to the people paying the bills. And who really knows what "long term" actually means here?
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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I think that's the whole point; they know admins love that ability. |
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
True story: the last major rollout I did of IE8 was specifically for a customer that didn't want to ban web browsing in their organization, but didn't really want people browsing a lot. IE8 turns out to be fantastic for that purpose.
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You are correct though, regarding standards.
My new Youtube Channel with CoH info
You might know me as FlintEastwood now on Freedom
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Which version?|
Originally Posted by Snow Globe
I still regularly act as a technician and, guess what, most of the viral removals I have to deal with relate to IE.
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Originally Posted by Snow Globe
Heck, I rarely use IE, I have higher than standard Internet settings in IE, I know and use best practices when it comes to phishing/using unknown software and I still found a vector that was embedded in the registry. The vector changed the registry stating the user-agent to a javascript. Installing IE 9 didn't change the user-agent. I had to manually do that myself.
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Originally Posted by Snow Globe
You realize that is like saying that someone is less evil now than they used to be because they only maim people instead of killing them, right?
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Anyways, I am not here to argue for the browser outside of the idea that it is still super unsecure for those that don't keep up with things.
My new Youtube Channel with CoH info
You might know me as FlintEastwood now on Freedom
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I like Chrome a lot. I haven't tested it recently, but the main reason I haven't switched from FF is because in the past it bogged way down after a long session simply switching focus on tabs.
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Originally Posted by Chad Gulzow-Man
I'm now using Chrome. The user interface still bugs me, but at least it bugs me less than the IE9 interface AND it shows me what I want to be looking at on my second monitor.
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My new Youtube Channel with CoH info
You might know me as FlintEastwood now on Freedom
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Various 5-9 over the years.|
Originally Posted by JayboH
Which version?
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Originally Posted by JayboH
Kinda crippling settings, but I don't know your browsing habits.
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Originally Posted by JayboH
Well.... then you better get used to not browsing the web, as all browsers have had and still have security issues. Ones that started off less evil is ok then?
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Originally Posted by JayboH
Anyways, I am not here to argue for the browser outside of the idea that it is still super unsecure for those that don't keep up with things.
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Originally Posted by JayboH
Context. All browsers have failed the acid test in some way or another in the recent past. Also, of course it is the number one target, as it is still the most used browser in all of history.
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Nope, Opera has been pretty much passing Acid Tests for a few years now. Chrome passes it too.
Opera has been my main browser since V5 or 6. Chrome and Firefox are my fallbacks and IE is the dirty thing I have to test with at the end because end-users are silly (I still have to allow for IE6 for heavens sakes).
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The reason NC hasn't already ditched .NET when they have a Mac build to draw a non-.NET version from is because it's easier at the moment to leave everything alone. Until it needs updating, or it breaks.|
Originally Posted by UberGuy
My guess is that the platform-specific ones look a lot cheaper, especially in the short term. And even if it's only cheaper in the short term, I find it's often hard to sell the strategic, long term solution to the people paying the bills. And who really knows what "long term" actually means here?
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What I'm proposing is something one person can do (two would make it faster though) in a very short time. After that, instead of requiring two maintenance teams, you'd have one, so it would be cheaper and cut the deployment time in half. I believe they just need someone or something to nudge them along.
Manga @ Triumph
"Meanwhile In The Halls Of Titan"...Titan Network Working To Save City Of Heroes
Save Paragon City! Efforts Coordination
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Eh, I think there are a lot of assumptions backed in that conclusion. Given that they've already done it this way, with two separate applications, I bet someone has to show significant return on investment to merge them. And of course, if they don't know know what future changes they will have to pay to make to the split applications, or how soon, that becomes an exercise in hypothetical scenarios with hypothetical costs, and how to choose among them becomes subjective.|
Originally Posted by CuppaManga
The reason NC hasn't already ditched .NET when they have a Mac build to draw a non-.NET version from is because it's easier at the moment to leave everything alone. Until it needs updating, or it breaks.
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I run into this a lot at work. Convincing people of things that you're sure is the technically and strategically superior option can be very difficult unless you can show them an unambiguously black bottom line.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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1) No, I can't produce exact numbers, to the cent, of NCSoft staffing and project costs that would be saved. Since that's private information, nobody can produce that, meaning I will always lose that argument automatically.|
Originally Posted by UberGuy
I run into this a lot at work. Convincing people of things that you're sure is the technically and strategically superior option can be very difficult unless you can show them an unambiguously black bottom line.
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2) Nobody told me that there were so many die-hard .NET fans or that anyone would take my suggestion as a personal insult. I really didn't mean to offend anyone.
3) I admit I might be a little insulted if someone petitioned NCSoft and Paragon to ditch the Mac and Linux people and embrace DirectX, .NET, Windows Media, and every kind of proprietary Windows technology to make sure you absolutely need a Real Windows PC to run CoH. But I'm not advocating exclusivity for the Mac or Linux, or even asking Windows players to give something up in order to accommodate Mac or Linux. Quite the opposite, actually.
Now I've cleared up that much, I'm advocating being as *inclusive* as possible. The current way of doing things isn't producing that result. The *path* to producing that result is a short one, and is worth taking, because it has the added benefit of making things simpler. That is all I suggest.
Manga @ Triumph
"Meanwhile In The Halls Of Titan"...Titan Network Working To Save City Of Heroes
Save Paragon City! Efforts Coordination
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Ok, so Opera has failed it in distant instead of recent past. I hate Opera.
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Originally Posted by Carnifax_NA
Nope, Opera has been pretty much passing Acid Tests for a few years now. Chrome passes it too.
Opera has been my main browser since V5 or 6. Chrome and Firefox are my fallbacks and IE is the dirty thing I have to test with at the end because end-users are silly (I still have to allow for IE6 for heavens sakes). |
My new Youtube Channel with CoH info
You might know me as FlintEastwood now on Freedom
Personally I have had no problem with the legacy or the NCSoft launcher except that I've always looked at the NCSoft launcher as an extra step between me and my game. As far as performance I don't see much of a difference. My only question about it is "what was the point of the launcher?"
But again, that's because I don't see a difference either way. The only answer I can think of is that it's a marketing decision to shove the NCSoft brand down our throats. When ever you open the launcher you are forced to be made aware that they make/publish other games too, whether you care about them or not.
But still I don't feel effected by this at all since I have never used Linux and CoX is one of the few games that I have always gone out to a store and bought the box. I am a huge fan of Steam but for some reason I like having the boxes for this game. I don't care about anything inside the box and I'm not a "art guy" so the cover art means nothing to me... I just like having the discs and the boxes for this specific game and it's expansions.
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Still waiting on details/a faq of how to get Steam CoH Install to work with the NC Soft Launcher. The only way it does currently is manually and as I said this stops the Steam functionality working.|
Originally Posted by Beastyle
City of Heroes does currently work with Steam.
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Thanks
Dave
| dave | onion | @davejb |
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Okay, I can't believe no one else has asked yet. Why do you have a two by four in your office?
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
I have a two by four in my office that is even more.....
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Some questions are better left unasked...
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Originally Posted by Lock0n
Okay, I can't believe no one else has asked yet. Why do you have a two by four in your office?
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Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
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Its actually part of a display structure we used to use for trade shows. The lumber ended up in my office when we stopped using it. I've used some of it for some spacers, one piece just sits next to my desk. Years ago there was a mild but credible potential threat to our office by someone (not an employee) and I kept the 2x4 *on* my desk for a few months: now I mostly use it to remind vendors that when I say I would be disturbed if they did a particular thing, "disturbed" may have a different meaning for me than it does for some of their other channel partners.|
Originally Posted by Lock0n
Okay, I can't believe no one else has asked yet. Why do you have a two by four in your office?
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Also, its gotten more use from me than IE8 has.
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That wouldn't be surprising even if IE were equally as secure as the other browsers. It would be like saying most fuel-related accidents with automobiles involve gasoline. That doesn't indicate that hydrogen is safer, so much as it indicates more automobiles use gasoline.|
Originally Posted by Snow Globe
I still regularly act as a technician and, guess what, most of the viral removals I have to deal with relate to IE.
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For my part, the one time I've had a serious issue that spawned through IE, research indicated it could have happened with Firefox (the browser I most often see recommended as an alternative). And it was really my own fault for visiting a site I knew was a risk. I stick with IE simply because I've had bad experiences with other browsers (Netscape (way back), Opera, Firefox, and one or two others I've forgotten) I've tried and I generally don't have problems with IE - not enough to continually hassle myself with trying other browsers.
Mind you, I generally only use my web browser for web browsing (in which I include occasional flash games/videos). I suspect people like Arcanaville require much more from their web browser. I also suspect that such people lose sight of what most human beings on Earth are happy with in a web browser: click link + page loads = happy human. IE has produced that happiness for me with more consistency than any other browser I've tried.
Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound
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This hasn't been anything close to my experience. I'm on a 256K WiPOP connection since February of 2010. Before that, I was on dial-up. The old updater had consistently downloaded at about 80% of the available bandwidth under both connection speeds. The NCLauncher downloads at full available bandwidth pretty much every time. That's a 20% (or 25%, depending on which direction you're looking at it from) increase in just the range that you describe as the problem area.
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Originally Posted by Lily Inverse
This is actually about what I would expect. The issue comes in mainly when your connection caps out well before that, at under 200 kbps. Then, you're getting the same download speeds, but patches are MUCH larger through the NCLauncher (so another thing to watch out for if you have a data cap).
This was, admittedly, months ago, so this may have been corrected. |
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Only remedy is to have steam run in the background and coh running in windowed mode. Getting the devs to worry about 3rd party functionality is like pulling teeth. Besides why does it matter since coh time in game doesn't even register with steam unlike a ftp copy to this game.
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Originally Posted by Global_DJB
Still waiting on details/a faq of how to get Steam CoH Install to work with the NC Soft Launcher. The only way it does currently is manually and as I said this stops the Steam functionality working.
Thanks Dave |
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Let me clarify: I've not seen any virus related to any other browser BUT IE. The only other vector I had to deal with was Outlook. Funny that. Admittedly I've seen a potential threat on Firefox and Chrome (to the point I had to invoke the task manager) from redirect hijacks.
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Originally Posted by Tenzhi
That wouldn't be surprising even if IE were equally as secure as the other browsers. It would be like saying most fuel-related accidents with automobiles involve gasoline. That doesn't indicate that hydrogen is safer, so much as it indicates more automobiles use gasoline.
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Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
Wikipedia once again has a short article explaining Graphic User Interface builders and what their basic purpose is, as well as links to several kinds:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graphic...erface_builder
Manga @ Triumph
"Meanwhile In The Halls Of Titan"...Titan Network Working To Save City Of Heroes
Save Paragon City! Efforts Coordination